For The Environment Hybrid Boats

[Andrewcook]

As to you all Forum Member's are aware that all Car's must be Electric by the Year Two Thousand Thirty how the heck can Boat's be transformed to this Government of the Day environment issues . I would rather have an Part Engine and Electric for a while and who's going to foot the Bill upon putting Electric Post for all Electric Boat's and where do we get the Extra electricity from ? This whole thing  I believe is not well thought out. 

[ExSurveyor]

The measures apply to new cars from 2030, not existing ones. No doubt the same will apply to boats eventually but I doubt it will be 2030 if ever.

[Turnoar]

New cars maybe. Not seen an electric equivalent of the motor bike, only the bicycle. Old cars will still be doing the rounds I expect....

[MauriceMynah]

As to this thread, I think the government will just do what it 'as to.

[JennyMorgan]

We've long had hybrid boats, often referred to as 'auxiliary yachts' or 'motor sailors'. 

In the meantime how will cars that rely on 'on street parking' charge their batteries? Come to that, those of us who prefer 'primitive' moorings might also have a problem.

[floydraser]

This electric car by 2030 thing is based on political correctness and is probably designed to placate the envorinmentalists; you could never say it's not a good idea but you can only argue it won't be practical. I foresee a massive re-think in the future as the reality bites, just as we are currently witnessing with the covid issue.

[jeffbroadslover]

They will have to develop batteries that will last for 300-400 miles at least or your journey to and from your holiday destination will probably take longer than your holiday !!

Jeff

[floydraser]

7 minutes ago, jeffbroadslover said:

They will have to develop batteries that will last for 300-400 miles at least or your journey to and from your holiday destination will probably take longer than your holiday !!

Jeff

And work out where to get the generating capacity in the first place, then work out what they are going to do with those millions of dead, chemical filled batteries at the end of their lives.

[CambridgeCabby]

7 hours ago, Turnoar said:

New cars maybe. Not seen an electric equivalent of the motor bike, only the bicycle. Old cars will still be doing the rounds I expect....

There are many electric motorbikes about now , eg the Harley Davidson Livewire

[grendel]

In actuality, the legislation does not say all cars must be electric by 2030, it says they must not build them with internal combustion engines running from petrol or diesel, I think that manufacturers have an opportunity to explore other clean technology, in the past there have been different power sources for vehicles that could be explored, the main criteria is that it is non polluting, steam power could be explored as long as a green means of heating the water can be found. hydrogen fuel would be a really good option as the byproduct of burning hydrogen is water. electric vehicles alone are not going to solve this, the infrastructure isnt there to do it, we need to be exploring other solutions.

for boats, steam is a proven technology, all that is required is a clean way to heat the boiler, a filter system on the intake could mean an unlimited supply of water for the boilers. I am sure with the modern developments in the car engine industry steam engines could be made that are a lot more efficient nowadays and that run well with minimum intervention much as a modern car engine does.

getting fixated on electric isnt what we should be doing, finding other clean alternatives is. The gas industry as a whole is looking to replacing natural gas with hydrogen for all households, so why not have hydrogen to fuel vehicles?

[ChrisB]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

There are many electric motorbikes about now , eg the Harley Davidson Livewire

I think that was the bike that Charlie Boreman and Ewan Macgregor used to drive The Americas in "The Long Way Up"

[grendel]

I have to admit I have been looking at the Zero, as one of the few electric vehicles I can get near enough to the house to charge, but even that is still short on range for my daily commute, maybe just about OK in the summer, but in winter when I would need to use the lights as well, maybe just short a few miles.

[MauriceMynah]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

I have to admit I have been looking at the Zero, as one of the few electric vehicles I can get near enough to the house to charge, but even that is still short on range for my daily commute, maybe just about OK in the summer, but in winter when I would need to use the lights as well, maybe just short a few miles.

It was very popular with the Japanese at Pearl Harbour 

[grendel]

not the plane MM - these -

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb

[ChrisB]

13 minutes ago, grendel said:

not the plane MM - these -

https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/en-gb

Look very nice.

[floydraser]

Well wouldn't it be good if in the next 10 years someone came up with a fuel which could power all our exsisting internal combustion engines with zero effect on the environment?

This was 10 years ago: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1300546/Dung-Beetle-The-methane-gas-powered-car-leaves-waste.html

I see irony in the fact that environmentalists point out the effect of cow's methane on climate change. As I see it we have 10 years (well not really) to find a way of powering cars with methane whilst at the same time reducing it's effect on the weather. Plenty for those in education and research to have a go at.

As an aside, I remember rumours in the seventies that electric powered cars could have been practical, but larger companies made efforts to stifle their development due to commercial interests. The cynic in me wonders if the pendulum of self interest could possibly swing the other way...

[Bytheriver]

I remember my Father who was an engineer  telling me 60 years ago that many improvements to IC engines in the past had simply been stifled by the engine manufacturers & oil companies at the time in pursuance of their financial interests. They both seen very quiet on the subject right now - the only tiny ripple of concern was last spring when the price of oil crashed.

[Turnoar]

5 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

There are many electric motorbikes about now , eg the Harley Davidson Livewire

Wow. Can’t wait to see one of those in the flesh. Bit beyond my budget and licence limit I expect. At the equivalent price of the, say, Honda c90 or 125 cub, the range seems to be about 50 miles electric compared to 200 petrol although the one Grendel pointed out seems a bit better. Id have to charge everyday going to Norwich and back.

I guess these could end up being a rarity in years to come like the Enfield 8000. Milk floats are now commanding nearly 10k for a wreck and 20k in cream top condition! I think the classic car conversion route could work well given the much lighter weight though I’m not sure how it works regulation wise, vintage voltage tv has got me thinking an electric 2cv could be in order for retirement if fossil fuel has been phased out...

 

 

[petersjoy]

1 hour ago, Turnoar said:

thinking an electric 2cv could be in order for retirement

what about this.

https://www.citroen.co.uk/new-cars-and-vans/future-vehicles/ami

[rightsaidfred]

16 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

As to you all Forum Member's are aware that all Car's must be Electric by the Year Two Thousand Thirty how the heck can Boat's be transformed to this Government of the Day environment issues . I would rather have an Part Engine and Electric for a while and who's going to foot the Bill upon putting Electric Post for all Electric Boat's and where do we get the Extra electricity from ? This whole thing  I believe is not well thought out. 

Sorry but to me the current emphasis on electric cars is just one more case of pandering to pressure groups, by 2030 I am sure there will be far more technological advances that will make this obsolete, in the meantime I will just get on with life.

Fred

[Cheesey69]

As stated in another post, we field tested 4x4 electric cars. 
No, just no. 
Not wildly known, but the batteries seriously under performed in cold weather and when under stress and even when loaded with gear. 
But it was the cold weather that really cut the life of the battery, lithium really can’t perform when the outside temp creeps close to zero. 
And one more thing. It takes 5 minutes to fill a tank of fuel. 
At one stage we had 7 cars off the road waiting to charge. 

[Turnoar]

Can you tow with electric, a caravan or sailing dinghy eg, and if you have the aircon, radio, satnav on for the trip to Cornwall how many days will it take to get there.... struggling to see consumer take up with so many pitfalls. Oh and if it’s winter what with heated seats demisters, space heating. Think I’ll stick with the push bike and train and rent a cottage with the saving lol

[Paul]

Electric cars with a specified towing capacity are starting to appear, but as yet there seems to be no proper testing on how towing, a 1500kg caravan for example would reduce the vehicles range. I understand one of the clubs, Caravan Club or Camping and Caravan Club are trying to get Tesla to support a test on the Model X range when towing but Tesla have declined, which gives a good idea of what the result might be. 

Battery electric vehicles will never be a viable replacement for all of our petrol and diesel cars. We simply cannot generate sufficient power to charge them all, the world does not have enough lithium to produce all the batteries even to replace a fraction of the cars currently on the road, we cannot afford the infrastructure to charge them all, even if we could build them, and generate enough power, something which is not helped by the fact that the auto industry continues to refuse to adopt a standard charging technology so a charger for one make may not charge cars of another make. 

The UK has set a deadline of 2035 for the end of cars which use petrol or diesel, it was the first major nation to set a deadline and the current deadline is the earliest of all those nations. The fact is the dates will be driven by the motor industry, not the UK government. I can promise you now there is nobody at Toyota, GM, Ford, Volkswagen etc worrying about what targets the UK government set, in fact they don't give a jot. Most, it would appear would be ready to meet a 2035 target, but only if it suits them. I'm sorry to burst your bubble Mr Johnson but the worlds motor industry does not hang on your targets and deadlines. 

The future of private cars will either mean far fewer cars on the road, or alternative technologies of which the only one which could meet all requirements is the hydrogen fuel cell. There is no doubt that the fuel cell will play a role in zero emission road transport, I personally thing that it will be the fuel of the future, the electric car is a short term stop gap. I have little doubt that in 50 years time the world will look back and think " did we really try and use electric cars "?

Once all of that has been sorted, we then have to face the fact that whatever we do, it will impact the global production of greenhouse gasses by the tiniest fraction of one percent. If we want to stop global warming, climate change call it what you will then we need to stop factories in China, India, even the USA belching out huge quantities of carbon gasses, many of which are producing batteries for electric cars ...... 

 

[Turnoar]

You’re spot on Paul, the only thing I would add to the sentence below is “again” somewhere probably after time. It seems after 40 plus years since the Enfield 8000 the limitations of electric cars haven’t changed... that said if anyone has got one tucked up in a barn I am interested! Along with an electric microlight, North Sea ferry (not diesel electric though), rail locomotive that doesn’t need a pantograph (again not diesel electric). Now, I know some of you may be thinking I’m a bit of a dinosaur but no I’m not and yes please I’d like one of those too. The commercial success story in all of this is probably the electric broads day boat as the capacity suits the desired output.

16 minutes ago, Paul said:

 I have little doubt that in 50 years time the world will look back and think " did we really try and use electric cars "?

 

 

[Turnoar]

And yes, JM is spot on also, fossil-sailcloth is a perfectly good hybrid arrangement, and you never know it may catch on with the punters!