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21 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

This one has got me stumped, where is it?

Painted by John Reginald Goodman, it looks Broads to me but I can not place that church, can you?

Norfolk Broads by Goodman.jpg

I wonder if it a church say on the one of Suffolk rivers - as a suggestion St. Botolphs at Iken on the River Alde

I'm not saying it is that church but its the right shape!!!! (ish)

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37 minutes ago, LizG said:

I wonder if it a church say on the one of Suffolk rivers - as a suggestion St. Botolphs at Iken on the River Alde

I'm not saying it is that church but its the right shape!!!! (ish)

The fly in the ointment regarding that picture is that the painter has clearly identified the picture as being The Broads but your suggestion is good.

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Iken church, like many a very English English church. The church in the painting does appear to have a spire which has thrown me. I haven't been to Iken for at least twenty years, lovely place.

image.thumb.png.0191b2c7cfc79c76b7335b20e2320eea.png

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They moan about Ludham Bridge now - the floods of 1912 did the Broads hire industry a real favour!!!! Acle's improved a bit too!!!

I don't think that's Thurne Church - its too fancy! It could be anywhere, the Thames , the Great Ouse but if its entitled "The Broads" it carries more than the usual amount of artistic license, methinks. 

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29 minutes ago, Canarytops said:

I've just noticed that there appears to be a winch forward and aft, artistic license (?) as I was under the impression that the winch was aft on the keels ?

I would guess that the forward winch was for lowering the mast and bracing it upright against the backstay that we can see in the drawing.  The aft winch would then raise the deadweight of the sail and yard and could also be used for loading cargo.  There would be no mainsheet as such, as the square sail and the yard was swung from side to side by braces.

Just guessing!  I think drawings as good as this one would probably have been accurate.

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30 minutes ago, Canarytops said:

I've just noticed that there appears to be a winch forward and aft, artistic license (?) as I was under the impression that the winch was aft on the keels ?

I can find no evidence either way. I suppose a winch aft would provide a substantial, adjustable back stay for the square rig. I did see Dee Dah when she was being excavated but regretfully took no photos, I left that to others. I have no recollection of a winch either end but your impression is an interesting one.

Stark-keel-Norwich.jpg

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On 03/02/2021 at 10:19, Vaughan said:

I would guess that the forward winch was for lowering the mast and bracing it upright against the backstay that we can see in the drawing.  The aft winch would then raise the deadweight of the sail and yard and could also be used for loading cargo.  There would be no mainsheet as such, as the square sail and the yard was swung from side to side by braces.

Just guessing!  I think drawings as good as this one would probably have been accurate.

 

On 03/02/2021 at 10:28, JennyMorgan said:

I can find no evidence either way. I suppose a winch aft would provide a substantial, adjustable back stay for the square rig. I did see Dee Dah when she was being excavated but regretfully took no photos, I left that to others. I have no recollection of a winch either end but your impression is an interesting one.

Stark-keel-Norwich.jpg

I spread the net a bit wider to seek advice and it does appear "my impression" isn't necessarily correct ! It would appear that there is a lack of definitive knowledge about the rigging of keels other than the Norwich School of Artists and the almost preserved Dee-Dar. Harry Clow's excellent sketch is viewed as being typical of later, larger keels (as shown by the models within the Bridewell Museum and Science Museum) whereas "my impression" is possibly correct based on smaller keels where the sail could be raised manually. Bob Malster certainly supports the view that Harry's sketch is an accurate reflection of those models. Watch this space !

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  • 3 weeks later...

I was interested to see the picture of Reedham Mill by W L Rackham which Peter put up a few posts ago  - I have the original hanging on my wall!!! I have only just realised that!!!

However sad to relate my picture has been hanging in full sunlight at some stage ( not in my ownership I hasten to add! ) and not only has it faded from Peter's photo, but gone brown as many of Rackhams paintings did, simply because he would, or could not, afford decent watercolour paints.

I have also recently acquired a better copy of G Christopher Davies book, Rivers and Broads of Norfolk and Suffolk - there were several editions of this not uncommon book but my newer one has around 20 plates of Rackhams drawings! To me that was a lucky purchase but I expect a few old codgers posting here have copies of that edition too.

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2 hours ago, marshman said:

However sad to relate my picture has been hanging in full sunlight at some stage ( not in my ownership I hasten to add! ) and not only has it faded from Peter's photo, but gone brown as many of Rackhams paintings did, simply because he would, or could not, afford decent watercolour paints.

Thanks for the heads up about Rackham's drawings, I hadn't put two and two together. Incidentally, I did see a very nice Rackham oil painting a year or so back, that I did admire. 

Re my photo of your painting, not bad for handheld and lit by your room lighting!

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He obviously did more than one then!!!  Yours is about 100X better.

The illustrations in the Davies book seem to differ from edition to edition - the drawings in my original book are not signed, nor does it say who did them, but in my other copy, incidentally in much better condition, all the illustrations are signed by Rackham - and they differ from the illustrations in my "rubbish" one!

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1 hour ago, marshman said:

He obviously did more than one then!!!  Yours is about 100X better.

He is not the only one to have done that. I have, for example, a Batchelder of Lowestoft Harbour Mouth, there is a very similar version in Lowestoft's Town Hall collection, another in the local Maritime Museum and another in the Town Museum at Oulton Broad and I don't doubt that other variations are in other private hands. 

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