Not all speeders are hire-boats!

[Hockham Admiral]

Over the past three weeks we've been on the Northern Broads and contrary to some people's expectations not all speeders were hire boats!

But this one was the exception........

[Guest]

I really don't like this growing trend of posting pics of people who have "apparently" transgressed in some way.

Whilst i'm sure your observations are correct the pics prove nothing and ony serve to embarass those featured which is not the purpose of this forum ..... or is it?

[Hylander]

What harm is there is showing the photos. People should be aware of the wake they are creating. Consideration for other users of the rivers - wait until somebody is scalded by boiling liquid. That bling boat which is a hired boat is beyond a joke. Whatever was the rush - somebody having a heart attack?

[Guest]

Consideration for other users of the rivers - wait until somebody is scalded by boiling liquid.

Quite so. People should remember that a boat is subject to rocking .... wake from passing boats, wind, people moving about on-board. So every caution should be taken when handling boiling liquids to avoid accidents.

[Hylander]

I should hardly think that someone 'moving about on board' is comparable to that boat hairing up the river at that speed, which at the end of the day is breaking the law. I am talking about being rocked about in such a manner that is harsh and unexpected.

[Guest]

I should hardly think that someone 'moving about on board' is comparable to that boat hairing up the river at that speed, which at the end of the day is breaking the law. I am talking about being rocked about in such a manner that is harsh and unexpected.

Depends on size and design of boat.

[Hylander]

Yes that is true, I am fogetting not all boats are as stable as ours. Thinking about it would be far worse for them.

Just think people well just dont think.

[Hockham Admiral]

I really don't like this growing trend of posting pics of people who have "apparently" transgressed in some way.Whilst I'm sure your observations are correct the pics prove nothing and only serve to embarrass those featured which is not the purpose of this forum ..... or is it?

Lou, Hi

I wasn't necessarily trying to get at anyone in particular; that's why I didn't give dates. No, I was just pointing out that it's not always the hirers who transgress............

Indeed, if I'd managed to get pics of a private Fairline 24 we saw twice, on different days, I would most certainly have posted that!

[Guest]

I know this is a hot topic on at least 2 of the forums and I have entered the debate elsewhere many times.

One point that I'd like to pick up on here is that I personally feel that the onus is not upon the boater to tiptoe around just incase a speeder passes by. Yes, care should be taken by anyone on a boat, but with the expectation that the speed limits for the river are observed, and enforced. Our boat rocks easily, being a planing hull, but we don't leap about on it without a care. However, having paid my tax to use the system I do not want, or can reasonably be expected, to be on constant look out for speeders (I wanted to put idiots but as I am new on here I don't want to rock the boat too much... pardon the pun) or have to tie everything down and only use the kettle when a full health & safety check from deck has been conducted! (I know that you didn't suggest that Smellylou)

We make allowances for some movement, of course, but hefty wash like that shown in the pics is way over the top. Problem is, they usually get away with it.

And when it's after dark, as we experienced once when moored up at Cockshoot at about midnight, there is no chance of avoiding it!

Karen

[senator]

That poor bloke in that hire boat is just about to get washed up by that huge wave coming towards him.

horrible thought but that is twice in as many weeks I have been in agreeance with Smellyloo. I don't think it is fair to post as judge and Jury displaying photos for all to see. I have no doubt that you are right John and that the people were speeding but the photos prove nothing but a bit of reflected wash and a strong tidal stream against. What happens if someone posts a pic of a boat claiming it is speeding when it was not?

[senator]

Does look like a bit of a tsunami behind the Faircraft machine though

[MBA Marine]

If your going to point the finger at these supposed speeders, (which i have to say the broom doesnt seem to that big a wave behind it) why not have a go at broads tours for their river trip boats, countless times ive been working in a boat when the Queen of the broads or the Mississippi thing chug past with a wave that bounces you around like hell!

[MY littleboat]

I don't think it is fair to post as judge and Jury displaying photos for all to see. I have no doubt that you are right John and that the people were speeding but the photos prove nothing but a bit of reflected wash and a strong tidal stream against. What happens if someone posts a pic of a boat claiming it is speeding when it was not?

Like this fast speeding boat on the Waveny Ian?

[Hockham Admiral]

. I have no doubt that you are right John and that the people were speeding but the photos prove nothing but a bit of reflected wash and a strong tidal stream against. What happens if someone posts a pic of a boat claiming it is speeding when it was not?

On Salhouse Broad???

[Guest]

what one man deems excessive wash another doesn't and some boats are more prone to rolling with wash

than others.

and to keep things on an even footing i'm posting myself speeding

but as a question, last time i went through Reedham I was yelled at by the Harbour Master there

for making excessive wash, my over the ground speed was around 4 knots and i guestimate the

tide was against me at at 2 to 3 knots. I have no rudder but an outboard and know my boat needs

a reasonable speed to maintain steerage, I also knew that the tide speeds up through the bridge quite

dramatically and to make safe passage through the bridge I would need to be moving fast enough for steerage.

I didn't think I was creating excessive wash but obviously the harbour dude did.

was i wrong to continue at my speed disregarding the yells from the HM or should I have reduced speed

to reduce wash just because he said so ?

Regards

Rich

[senator]

but as a question, last time i went through Reedham I was yelled at by the Harbour Master there

for making excessive wash, my over the ground speed was around 4 knots and i guestimate the

tide was against me at at 2 to 3 knots. I have no rudder but an outboard and know my boat needs

a reasonable speed to maintain steerage, I also knew that the tide speeds up through the bridge quite

dramatically and to make safe passage through the bridge I would need to be moving fast enough for steerage.

I didn't think I was creating excessive wash but obviously the harbour dude did.

was i wrong to continue at my speed disregarding the yells from the HM or should I have reduced speed

to reduce wash just because he said so ?

Regards

Rich

The Harbour master at Reedham is well known for being a little over zealous with his requests to slow down but at the same time if there was a 2 - 3 mph flow against you then you should have had steerage at probably 1-2 mph over ground giving you speed through the water of 4 mph. Due to the high flow at Reedham a lot of people are not aware of the wash they are creating if they continue through at walking pace, remember there is a concrete wall that the boats are tied against.

I am sure you were monitoring your wash and this is just another example of HM power but if anyone else is reading this Reedham is not the place to speed as very regularly the BA set up a speed trap at Reedham marina and they will and do pull over a hell of a lot of boats. We even whitness the odd low speed chase under full blue flashing lights when people decide not to stop.

[Guest]

I think that all of us are guilty of a transgression at one time or another. How many of us do 35mph in a built up area in our cars. Or even 40mph. I have been knocked about by both hire and private boats, but in the same breath, I cannot say that I have not done this to others.

I think that on average the speed of vessels I follow is around the 6 knots mark, which equates to 6.9mph. This is GPS measured. I think that we all make a concious effort to act, not I believe the according to the rules, but with consideration for others. But I also think that there are times when indeliberately or not, we all fail in that respect.

After all, we are human.

[Hockham Admiral]

Rich, Hi

The speed limit through Reedham is 5mph and 4kts = 4.6mph; so you were below the legal limit and quite entitled to continue...

However, with a 2-3 mph current against you would most probably been at displacement speed at least to achieve that... but it's completely legal! as it's speed over the ground that the BA quote.

[Guest]

well not really, as do not the rules say excessive speed and/or excessive wash ?

so speed then becomes irrelevant, but at what cost to safety ? As the vessel captain

you are responsible for the safety of your vessel and in that situation even at 1 mph

over the ground you may still be making wash some people find excessive but steerage

could become dangerous.

my sail boat was different at 3 ton displacement and having a keel to my quicksilver

which at low speed can steer like a paper bag being blown over a pond. there was no

way I was going to go any slower at that point no matter what wash i was making

as it could have been unsafe. Had I been reported for speeding or creating excessive wash

then my argument would have been safety, the HM seems not to know the effects of tide

on his patch so i just ignored him.

IMHO in that situation excessive wash is unavoidable so how on earth would the BA be able to take direct action

had i been reported ?

[MY littleboat]

You are the master of your craft and if you slow down and have an accident because you knew the boat would lose steerage then only you would be to blame... but are you really saying that a little arvor needs 6 kts to maintain steerage? Or rather did you mean you were going with the flow?

[Hockham Admiral]

well not really, as do not the rules say excessive speed and/or excessive wash ?

They quote a wake/wash height of 12ins against the shore...

[senator]

They only quote that for ski boats John and how the hell would you measure it?

If you were causing such a huge wash as to leave a trail of damaged boats then I dare say they could prosecute for excessive wash but other than that I could not see it standing up,

Speed, if the flow is with you then you are going to need enough to maintain steerage over the flow of the water, if you have 3mph flow, and 4mph steerage that would be 7 mph, above the speed limit but obeying your duty as the master of your vessel to maintain steerage. No way could they make that stick as they can not ask you to do something that is dangerous and in direct contravention of maritime law.

On the other hand, if the flow is against you at 3mph and you are making 4 mph over land then you are at 7mph through the water, I would think that that is at the very upper end of displacement for a small Arvor hull and more likely to be starting to climb onto the Hump. Do you really need that much speed to maintain steerage? if so maybe Arvors are not so good for throwing and collecting pots off.

[Guest]

i do need some speed to maintain reasonable steerage

and 7 knots is nowhere near the hump

And at Reedham I do think I need to maintain a decent speed

yes Littleboat, the reasons for keeping speed there are not the same as

maintaining that speed in other places. first the tide speed, then the eddies

caused, then the very narrow passage through the bridge, then the unpredictable

hire craft movements, i'm sure there's more.

part of the problem is the weight of the boat and also having

a fixed wheelhouse, I came across this at Surlingham Ferry a week

or so ago, while trying to moor up i was just getting blown all over the

place except towards the mooring so the only thing for it was power bursts.

Another problem is lack of hull depth and no keel or rudder, my sailboat was a

dream to moor up with the keel and rudder keeping her straight.

Along with the weight, having a keel and rudder helps no end keeping

her straight even at the slowest over ground speed in a head tide, not

like the QS ( Avour indeed hehe ) it really can be tricky at too low a speed.

But then every boat is different and only you guys know what your boat is

capable of, but at least the thread turned from GRR damn speeders to

a nice chat about reasons speeding may happen ;-)

rich

[senator]

The hull speed of a boat is worked out by a standard equation which is the square root of hull waterline length in feet x 1.34. or for a waterline length of 14' approximately 5 knots

Up to this speed the boat is in displacement mode but above it the wavelength exceeds the length of the boat and from there on in you are climbing onto the plane and creating an exponentially bigger wash than below this speed. Sorry but that is just physics and using the boat between hull speed and planing speed just results in a huge fuel bill and a lot of wash.

[Hockham Admiral]

but at least the thread turned from GRR damn speeders to

a nice chat about reasons speeding may happen ;-)

rich

rich, if you take the time to read my original post correctly it was NOT about "GRR damn speeders " but about private boats being just as likely to cause aggravation as hire boats... I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully with you) to take away the false idea that all speeders are hirers...