Broken Down On Wroxham Island

[Cheesey69]

Ah the horror of text!

In no way was I criticising the boatyard or at least I intended not to. 
Bought last year, lockdown, then after working through lock down, my first holibobs my boat breaks down. 
Then to top it all, first time in 10 years, I get posted to Suffolk to work so long weekends away on my boat is a thing, I have to do the 300 mile round trip instead. 
Frustrated? Yes but not raving. 

As to the engine here’s what I know. 
No signs of anything wrong before I switched off the engine for the night. 
Next day, no start. As if the engine stop was still on. 
Popping out of the air intake when cranked long enough. 
massive rocker gaps on all but cylinder one tappets. 
when turned by hand on crank the rockers don’t move and the timing chain feels lose. 
when turned by starter everything moves as it should. 
the push rods are fine. 
The best theory I’ve come across is the timing chain jumping under low tension but that don’t account for every thing. 

Lastly, I’m not airing my dirty washing online. I was just keeping those who asked informed. 

[grendel]

while the situation is still being resolved, it would probably be best to restrict the scope of this discussion to the cause of the engine failure, which I think is what most of those still following this thread are interested in, as that might have some bearing on peoples future mainenance regime.

[Helian]

Yes I'm very interested in the technical aspect.

The legal / warranty / financial aspect is perhaps best avoided in public discussion. 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

As an owner of a BMC 1.5 engine with no history of the engine I am also very interested in the mechanical reason of the failure. The rest I dont need to know.

[Vaughan]

Could it be something as simple as a broken key in the crankshaft timing pulley? Otherwise, I don't see how the timing chain would "slip".

[annv]

Hi A jumped/slipped timing chain will not give you a bigger gap on tappits nor will a broken crank shaft. it is ether valve seats dropped or the valve stems have seized holding valves open with the large gap and with one cilender working  and operating /firing this will  then blow back through ajaciant cilender then pop out of air filter, Richardson's cant be blamed for this as it will be a oil/lubricant caused problem and as they sold it a year previous what was done to it in this time  1=Was the engine oil level correct 2=was it the correct oil or was it  contaminated. 3= Had engine oil/filter been changed at start of season. you cant just leave a engine standing for over a year with out being inhibited and expect it to run more so with cheap oil 4= when was engine last serviced before being purchased.5= what condition of sale was agreed on,   full warranty for one year,   or as seen tried and tested at a lower price.  if oil has been contaminated and sized rockers that may be why they are changing complete engine rather than cheaper option of removing head and refurbishing in case any other damage/ wear in other parts of the engine has happened. John

[annv]

Hi Berkshire boy BMC engines are bomb proof with very few vices.  PROVIDING they are maintained properly with premium products and not allowed to over heat.  they have made millions of them in both petrol and diesel and probably the most widely used engine going.  John 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, annv said:

Hi Berkshire boy BMC engines are bomb proof with very few vices.  PROVIDING they are maintained properly with premium products and not allowed to over heat.  they have made millions of them in both petrol and diesel and probably the most widely used engine going.  John 

Hi John, Yes I`ve seen and heard this many times and so far I havent had any problems, that said like others I am interested in to what happened as it does seem to be a strange one.

[annv]

Hi Berkshire boy Yes very strange not having all the details why change a engine just for valve problem if that is all it is it wouldn't run one one cylinder if timing was out and timing doesn't affect valve clearance but getting back to your engine! if you change oil and filter with premium products every year no matter how few hours you  may have done,  keep breather hoses clear and don't let it overheat because of weed filter blocked  you won't go far wrong AND i would very much advise that you fit a exhaust temp sensor this fits in manifold to hose connection and will warn you of a rise in exhaust gas temperature due to low flow of water long before it shows on your engine temperature gauge not expensive and a alarm buzzer is very easy to fit to it making a bomb proof way of preventing overheating at little cost and very easy to fit just slacken hose clip on manifold slide under hose end so it will be immersed by water flow from heat exchanger into exhaust hose it's the best safty for little cost you will ever put on a boat to prevent overheating. John

[Cheesey69]

Hi all update,

I took advice from you and kept quiet until matters resolved. 
For starters Richardson’s have been great and finding second hand 1.8 at reasonable price range very hard. 
But we are happy with the 1.5 replacement as we are told better engine. 
Engines for the 1.8 version are really about reworking your old one and can really push up the turn around time for a major fix
The engine was serviced on the day we bought her and had done less than 20 hours, 10 months old less used because of lockdown and filled with the best oil. 
Never over heated in my presence., not frozen because of engine heater and I filled the raw water with anti freeze. 
It was booked in for service this month but I my go for over kill and give it a winter and summer jobbie because we plan to use it all year. 
They say it was a failed tensioner but I think it was more than that.  
Annov theory rings true but all the fitters agree it’s something they have never seen before. 
A big shout out to Paul Richardson for putting up with my increasing panic texts😀
 

[Cheesey69]

Final fettling done and I’m back. 
As a postscript to this saga, my last engine was really burning diesel compared to this one. I was hitting 6 miles to the gallon. Was that a sign of trouble?
This one seems lower. 

[annv]

Well done pleased your all sorted and yes engines will be less economical as they wear out you were very lucky that Richardson's were involved class firm as with any mechanical device you get problems one time or other, you were unlucky and lucky with out come. John

[Cheesey69]

50 minutes ago, annv said:

Well done pleased your all sorted and yes engines will be less economical as they wear out you were very lucky that Richardson's were involved class firm as with any mechanical device you get problems one time or other, you were unlucky and lucky with out come. John

You know, very wise words. 
But I did learn that these ain’t modern engines although reliable do need care and attention and looking at the owners manual, a host of little things to do that you don’t do in this day and age. Like cleaning and checking injector drive oil screen. 
Also learnt that there are no longer piles of spares lying around. There used to be as the fleets modernised but these was scrapped, sold or used and now getting bits of the shelves just is not happening.  
Exchange only for the big ticket items that really can add to turn around times. 
re-engine? I was quoted anything up to £10000. Which to many boat owners is eye watering. 
 

[CambridgeCabby]

Glad to read that it’s all sorted now and you’re able to be back afloat 

[Cheesey69]

…..And we are stuck on Boundry Farm 24hour moorings. 
Got up early for a crossing and she wouldn’t start. 
looks like an air in fuel situation so here goes the bleeding. 
Say hi if you see us!

[grendel]

Not having a lot of luck are you, still once its all sorted I am sure you will put all these little trials down to experience and just get on with enjoying yourselves.

[gancanny]

it could be the lift pump,    if the lift pump seals are old the fuel can seep back from the injector pump  causing an air lock,

  i have had this happen on a couple of occasions,  you can get a kit for the lift pump or just replace with a refurb one

   very easy to change even for me  lol

[Cheesey69]

Thanks to rob ( Sutton boatyard) it turns out a defective olive on pipe leading to injection pump. Leaking a little when running. 
So his off to get spares. 

48 minutes ago, grendel said:

Not having a lot of luck are you, still once its all sorted I am sure you will put all these little trials down to experience and just get on with enjoying yourselves.

The pleasures of boating and machinery!

A good reminder for recovery service.

[annv]

Hi Chessey if you need spares in future and ASAP dont have what you need ( not your olive problem) you could try Cullcuts Boats they are bmc dealers for canel boats. John

[Cheesey69]

4 hours ago, annv said:

Hi Chessey if you need spares in future and ASAP dont have what you need ( not your olive problem) you could try Cullcuts Boats they are bmc dealers for canel boats. John

Thanks, your advice has been golden!

All done now and back to boatyard. 

[Cheesey69]

….and a no start again. 
Really enjoying this two week holiday. 
Going to get every Diesel joint rebuilt but at least Richardson’s are on the ball. 

[gancanny]

lift pump

[Vaughan]

I wondered about this yesterday.  If a joint is leaking diesel when running, then it is not drawing air, and will not stop the engine.

Air will be drawn in anywhere on the suction side of the lift pump, so check the banjo joints on the sediment trap filter and check the filter has not been fitted with the rubber washer out of position.  Very easy mistake to make.

Could also be the diaphragm of the lift pump.

[grendel]

I seem to recall being told by someone who had similar issues that they had to replace the lift pump on their engine to get consistent running.

[Vaughan]

Unfortunately the old fashioned BMC engines are difficult to bleed and will stop if they draw in the slightest amount of air.  The Perkins is not all that much better!  Modern engines like Nanni with a common rail or "jerk" type injector pump, are pretty well self bleeding.

I would still suspect a problem with the sediment trap filter.  It only needs someone to stand on it when working on the engine, to disturb the pipe connections.