Considering Joining A Syndicate At Some Point

[Ally]

Hello,

We have been thinking of joining a syndicate but wondered what potential pitfalls are with this please?  I would be able to make some weeks but not all of them.  I think some weeks I would be a 'Mrs Barrable' and have to stay in the boatyard as I'd be alone, but it would just be lovely to be down there in beautiful Norfolk.  

We usually hire  for a week a year and have been coming down there yearly.  

Thanks for any help, 

 

Ally 

 

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Ally said:

Hello,

We have been thinking of joining a syndicate but wondered what potential pitfalls are with this please?  I would be able to make some weeks but not all of them.  I think some weeks I would be a 'Mrs Barrable' and have to stay in the boatyard as I'd be alone, but it would just be lovely to be down there in beautiful Norfolk.  

We usually hire  for a week a year and have been coming down there yearly.  

Thanks for any help, 

 

Ally 

 

From my point of view, if you visit annually anyway there is much to be gained from syndicate membership.  We still have a half share in Moonlight Shadow, despite now owning our own boat.  Aside from the cost of buying into the syndicate in the first place, a full share in the same boat works out to be about £1800 per year, paid monthly (£150 per month).  That gives four weeks on board per year, one week in each season allocated by draw at the AGM.  Sometimes, if a member is unable to use any of their allocated weeks, they are offered out to other members at no additional cost.  Fuel and pump outs are the responsibility of the member at the end of their weeks on board.

Should there be major expenditure for expensive repairs, additional funds may be requested, although within the usual monthly payment there is an amount paid into a contingency fund to help offset additional costs.  Allocated weeks can be swapped by mutual arrangement with other shareholders.

There are nine syndicated boats on the Broads, Moonlight Shadow, Evening Shadow, Silver Cloud and Thunder which are all managed by BCBM, Blue Mist, Goosander, Lightning, Ranworth Breeze and Southern Crusader all of which are self managed and either have Facebook groups or websites.  All syndicates have their own agreements and their own ways of allocating weeks, I have used Moonlight Shadow as an example.

If you want to leave the syndicate, you sell your share and hopefully get back your original outlay.

Syndicate ownership is not for everyone, but I’m sure others will add comments regarding their own experiences.

[YnysMon]

Malcolm has done a great job of outlining how it works.

We are really glad we bought into the Moonlight Shadow syndicate back in 2019. There are occasionally additional expenditures, but all are agreed between the owners at the AGM.  After all, it’s in our interest to ensure the boat is kept up to spec, and of course the cost of that is spread out between members.

I noticed your ‘Mrs Barrable’ comment. Moonlight Shadow and Lightening are currently moored at Brooms, which is next to Brundall railway station, so very convenient for visiting Norwich, Great Yarmouth and Lowestoft by train. That’s an option we have considered but not done yet

However, if we have strong winds forecast during our allocated weeks we do tend to leave the boat on its mooring and explore Norfolk and Suffolk by car instead of cruising. When we hired I would have thought it madness to spend time off the Broads, but the more out of season weeks we have, the more I appreciate exploring by car. So far we have had some lovely out of season visits to places like Wells-next-the-Sea and Southwold, as well as short trips by car to other places on the Broads and coastal walks in places such as Caister-on-sea, which are a fairly short drive from Brundall. It all makes for a very relaxing holiday.

[CambridgeCabby]

Having met and chatted to many syndicate boat members over the years I have yet to meet one that has regretted their decision to do so , many only relinquish their shares when they either retire and decide to purchase their own boat or they are no longer able to holiday afloat in Norfolk .

Shares when they come on the market seem to sell very quickly and often for at least the initial expense encountered 

[CambridgeCabby]

1 hour ago, Mouldy said:

 

There are nine syndicated boats on the Broads, Moonlight Shadow, Evening Shadow, Silver Cloud and Thunder which are all managed by BCBM, Blue Mist, Goosander, Lightning, Ranworth Breeze and Southern Crusader.

Plus Broad Ambition of course 

[YnysMon]

For the very ‘Ambitious’. 

[BroadAmbition]

I suppose 'B.A' could be termed a 'Syndicate' boat but privately with no management company, just shared ownership

Some of the figures that get banded about for maintenance money allocated each year for the respective managed syndicate boats imho is staggering.  I wish we had that kind of annual budget to spend on 'B.A' - We would struggle to spend it each year and folk say woodies are expensive to maintain?

Griff

[grendel]

Griff, If all the hard work, sweat and tears you put in were done by a boatyard, I am sure the additional costs would easily exceed the budgets the syndicate boats have, its a matter of choice, hard graft or pay someone else.

As part of another type of share scheme - the buddy share of Water Rail, where running costs are apportioned among the buddies, I would expect to be asked to set aside some time to assist in general maintenance and be happy to do so. in fact, After The Wooden Boat weekend, I have a mast to take home and strip down and revarnish, I currently have some more cupboard catches to bring with me that I have produced on the lathe, which will be fitted once i arrive, little jobs but its the little jobs that pop the cherry on the icing of the cake so to speak. plus in addition I am happy to tackle some of the maintenance tasks while actually aboard. for me its one of the fun parts of boat sharing.

[BroadAmbition]

plus in addition I am happy to tackle some of the maintenance tasks while actually aboard. for me its one of the fun parts of boat sharing.

Tell me about it, I nearly always seem to be doing that, then there's the  maintenance weekends we have too, although not been too many of them prior to April, Covid put paid to them and our biannual AMP hence why 'B.A' is looking a tad shoddy just now 

Griff

[MauriceMynah]

9 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

hence why 'B.A' is looking a tad shoddy just now 

Yes, I thought that. I remember thinking to myself "That boat could do with a damned good clean."

[Ally]

Thanks for all the information,  it seems like a no brained but what are the extra amounts we would have to pay, such as Griff mentioned please? 

I think even just being on the boat, using her as a base and travelling around Norfolk and Suffolk by car also sounds lovely.  I've been for about 35 years and haven't seen Norfolk other than by boat.  

Griff, I think you have a yacht?  I wouldn't have a clue so you wouldn't want to let me loose on her! 🤣 

Thank you again,

Ally

[Mouldy]

2 hours ago, Ally said:

Thanks for all the information,  it seems like a no brained but what are the extra amounts we would have to pay, such as Griff mentioned please? 

I think even just being on the boat, using her as a base and travelling around Norfolk and Suffolk by car also sounds lovely.  I've been for about 35 years and haven't seen Norfolk other than by boat.  

Griff, I think you have a yacht?  I wouldn't have a clue so you wouldn't want to let me loose on her! 🤣 

Thank you again,

Ally

Griff’s boat, Broad Ambition, is probably one of the most famous cruisers on The Broads and his syndicate is somewhat different to the others and run by Griff himself.  Being a ‘woodie’, there are additional maintenance requirements above those on what Griff would describe as a ‘tupperware’ (fibreglass) boat.

Additional cost for regular syndicated boats would usually be for things like re-upholstering seating, new carpets or a new engine.  That kind of expenditure would be costed and agreed at the syndicate’s AGM.  The monthly payments for Moonlight Shadow includes servicing and a budgeted amount for annual maintenance, when the boat is lifted, fully serviced, upholstery deep cleaned, hull and superstructure compounded and polished, heating serviced etc.  Again, this is applicable to MS, but other syndicates operate differently.  You would need to find out all relevant details before buying in.

It is worth mentioning that since the pandemic, the market for shares has been buoyant, with restrictions on foreign travel causing folk to seek holiday solutions at home.  If you want to buy into a particular boat, it would be worth registering your interest to be notified if a share becomes available.

[ZimbiIV]

Hire a cottage next to river then you can explore Norfolk and hire a day boat if you want some time on the river.

We used to do that when we had work to do while it was out over winter.

There is always work needed if you own!

We never had the time for a day boat.

paul

[Ally]

I tried staying next to the river once and wasn't keen tbh.   

I love wooden boats, we hired Diamond Emblem 4 year in year out.  Loved her and Dad hated fibreglass boats as the condensation was always a problem.  I'm talking about Crystal Stream, which was our first hire boat when I was a little girl.  

Oh wow! Just googled Broad Ambition! Stunner.  

[Tempest]

On 04/08/2021 at 19:42, Ally said:

We have been thinking of joining a syndicate

Just to give you the heads up if still interested in syndicate ownership that shares are currently available on Moonlight Shadow at the very reasonable asking price of £2500

She is currently based at Broom in Brundall and is having a new Nanni engine fitted this winter

Full details are on the BCBM website

https://www.bcbm.co.uk/boats/broads-cruisers-page-127.html

[ranworthbreeze]

Is that for a full 4 week share or a half share of 2 weeks? what will the additional costs on maintenance be for the new engine. The last syndicate boat having a new engine cost over £12000.00 plus fitting costs.

 

[Tempest]

9 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Is that for a full 4 week share or a half share of 2 weeks? what will the additional costs on maintenance be for the new engine. The last syndicate boat having a new engine cost over £12000.00 plus fitting costs.

 

That's for the 4 week share and there are 2 syndicate owners selling up, so 8 weeks in total are available

The winter maintenance and engine replacement come in around £15K this year, but should give her many years of quality boating

With money saved in the contingency fund the additional costs to the owners are reasonable

[Mouldy]

5 minutes ago, Tempest said:

That's for the 4 week share and there are 2 syndicate owners selling up, so 8 weeks in total are available

The winter maintenance and engine replacement come in around £15K this year, but should give her many years of quality boating

With money saved in the contingency fund the additional costs to the owners are reasonable

It’s also worth mentioning that the gearbox will be reconditioned and two extra batteries will be fitted and wired into the domestic bank to alleviate the issues previously experienced with current drop causing the heating to cut out.

Over the past couple of years, the sliding canopy has been stripped, strengthened and refitted, with new headlining, new carpets and a new Victron pure sine wave inverter have also been fitted.

She is a sound craft and with the new engine, should be a good investment for anyone looking to get into syndicate ownership.

[Andrewcook]

Hi I was thinking of joining a syndicate as my Holiday for the Two weeks on the Broads Hiring Boat is One Thousand Five Hundred quid I think it would be cheaper to joining a syndicate. 

[CambridgeCabby]

At the price stated I would consider moving quickly 

[Tempest]

1 hour ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi I was thinking of joining a syndicate as my Holiday for the Two weeks on the Broads Hiring Boat is One Thousand Five Hundred quid I think it would be cheaper to joining a syndicate. 

We visited the broads 4 times a year and we worked it out that on average it cost us around £6500 per year

If you purchased the shares now you could get them for around £2500 and then their is a monthly fee which is around £150 p/month

This means once you own your share of the boat your outlay is around £1800 per year

It was a no-brainer for us to go down this route as we now have a guaranteed 4 weeks per year and invariably you are offered many other weeks at no further cost when owners cant use their allocation

We had 5 weeks this year, but could have had around 10 weeks if we had taken every week that was offered

It isnt for everyone but certainly worth considering if you are or intend to be a regular visitor

You also get to converse with the likes of @Mouldyand @YnysMonwho also have shares in MS

[oldgregg]

4 hours ago, Mouldy said:

It’s also worth mentioning that the gearbox will be reconditioned and two extra batteries will be fitted and wired into the domestic bank to alleviate the issues previously experienced with current drop causing the heating to cut out.

What's the spec of alternators being fitted, and is the split charger being replaced too?

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

What's the spec of alternators being fitted, and is the split charger being replaced too?

The alternator is the standard 120a/h Nanni as fitted to the engine.  Split charging is already on the boat, not sure what, as it’s not my specialised subject, but the extra batteries should bolster the storage capability of what’s already there.  As far as I’m aware, the alternator we have now is 70 a/h.

[oldgregg]

That sounds about right, Thunder's original alternator was in the region of 70Ah and 120Ah is the default for the 48hp Nanni.

My concern would be that you're adding around 240Ah of batteries to be charged, but only getting another 50Ah (peak) of charging capacity.

You do have shore power (though I don't know the output), but I'd be whacking another 120Ah alternator on and making sure the split charger was up to the job.

[Mouldy]

Just now, oldgregg said:

That sounds about right, Thunder's original alternator was in the region of 70Ah and 120Ah is the default for the 48hp Nanni.

My concern would be that you're adding around 240Ah of batteries to be charged, but only getting another 50Ah (peak) of charging capacity.

You do have shore power (though I don't know the output), but I'd be whacking another 120Ah alternator on and making sure the split charger was up to the job.

We’ll have to see how it works out.  Broom have been tasked with the work and one would hope they know what they’re doing.  Time will tell.