Arson ... Theiving and Thuggery

[trambo]

Smellyloo your spot on but respect should be tought first and formost by parents.

Fred

[Guest]

Ironically we have been under a shadow for the last 15 years that has bred a give give give culture to those too bone idol to do anything about it, we have softened sentences and there is no deterrent for crime, in fact crime pays, and now we have a huge portion of society who would happily look at an expensive car bought through working hard and bettering yourself as an object to vandalize and destroy, yet, if that same car was bought as a product of winning the lottery, those same people would applaud you for it!

I assume that you are referring to 15 years of the previous Labour Government, in which case I beg to differ. The prison population reached a peak during those years, partly as a result of legislation introduced by that administration but also improvements in DNA technology, increased police numbers, programmes designed to tackle social deprivation, youth unemployment etc.

There are lessons for political parties of both the left and right here. It is too simplistic for the left to lazily link these appalling acts with deprivation, lack of opportunity etc and yet not recognise that many of those young people who committed these acts grew up on their watch.

It is also worth remembering that the neo liberals on the right of the Tory Party have complained for years about the introduction of unnecessary criminal legislation, the Big Brother use of CCTV systems and the extension of police powers in terms of the retention of DNA samples for those not charged with any offence.

It was a bit rich therefore to hear Cuddly Dave (back from Tuscany minus his Cappuccino, to save the world !!) proclaiming that every image of CCTV data would be scoured and used to prosecute those mindless thugs!! And as for the Police they, would be given every support tp pursue and prosecute those responsible. This against a backdrop of 20% cuts to Police Budgets!

It makes you weep how brazen politicians are.

Paul

[donnygeoff]

forget the politics.....

And it is not always the parents.... as some people want to blame

They can not discipline children any more....

Schools can not discipline children any more......

People in authority can not discipline children anymore......

AND THESE CHILDREN FROM THE START OF THE ERA OF SOFTLY SOFTLY ARE THE ONES DOING IT NOW

There is only one person to blame for all of this......

ESTHER RANSOM AND CHILD LINE............

Tell me off, give me a clip around the ear, smack my legs when I am naughty.......

I AM CALLING CHILD LINE

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I think I have heard the word "respect" being uttered by some of the youfs who have adopted some sort of alien accent.

Assuming it doesn't have some sort of alternative meaning that an old fart like me doesn't get then .......

"RESPECT" needs to be earned!!!!

Sadly this doesn't seem to be taught in schools?

I totally agree Loo, but respect and common decency should`nt JUST be taught at school, the BEST place to for these things to be taught is in the home at first, then also at school.

As for anybody thinking i`m a bigot, well it may surprise you to learn that i`ve had a BLACK girlfriend, and in the past have tried to win over the affections of two asian ladies, but THEY would`nt go out with me BECAUSE THEIR FAMILIES WOULD`NT ALLOW THEM TO GO OUT WITH A WHITE MAN!...... and people have the nerve to suggest i`m biggoted. Before i moved down here to Dorset, i lived (and was very happy) in North west Kent, where there was a very large asian comunity, and the street where i lived was mainly asian, so i think anybodies thoughts of me being biggoted are, shall we say, "misguided"?.

I may have very strict views on certain subjects, but i`m definately NOT a racist, because i dare to say things that some on this forum are too damned afraid to.

[Dan]

Neil

In the space of a week you have posted some derogatory homophobic remarks and then the suggestion that people should be sent back where they came from.

Unfortunately on the basis of, and light of such postings I would say you undoubtedly hold bigotted views, if you do not then you are being a little bit silly in posting bigotted comments.

I asked you rather politely not to post in this sort of vein after your homophobic remarks. The forum is open to everyone, you may enjoy posting what you wish, others would be offended and upset in reading it. Please respect from here on that such comments wont be tolerated, although I am pretty disappointed that this even needs pointing out (again).

Dan

[w44nty]

Imagine there's no Heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today

Imagine there's no countries

It isn't hard to do

Nothing to kill or die for

And no religion too

Imagine all the people

Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions

I wonder if you can

No need for greed or hunger

A brotherhood of man

Imagine all the people

Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer

But I'm not the only one

I hope someday you'll join us

And the world will live as one

If only, John,your words could become reality,then this world of ours would become a better place to live and bring up familys for future generations.

[Antares_9]

I have to agree with Dan, enough is enough, and your last post does nothing to persuade me either way that you are or are not a bigott or a racist, only you know that. But despite is claimed intent, reading it coldly it could also be read as the classic background of any bigott. Before you kick off, this is not an accusation that you are a bigott, more a request that you stop posting stuff that could be (and is) interpreted as such.

As I have said we prefer self or peer moderation on this forum but be in no doubt that in extremis we will do whatever is needed to protect the reputation of this forum.

[Antares_9]

I think I prefer Paradise Lost as an analogy to the words current and past problems W44nty but I certainly echo your sentiment.

[w44nty]

I think I prefer Paradise Lost as an analogy to the words current and past problems W44nty but I certainly echo your sentiment.

Paradise Lost is a long drawn out religous poem,John summed it up in 3 minutes when he wrote Imagine,In my opinion a masterpeice of my generation

[Guest]

Daytona-bill:

Unfortunately your claim not to be bigot/racist are not supported by some of your posts. Perhaps you could accept that this is the impression that some of your comments leave and moderate future postings accordingly so as to illustrate you are the thourougly nice guy you claim to be.

Having been a member of this forum for some time I can assure you that people on here are not afraid to post their views however it can take some effort to word the postings so as not to offend individuals, which is an important part of living within a community.

If I find a post is offensive I will reply accordingly and expect that others will do the same, even if they dare to criticise me .

[Guest]

Listening to the wireless this morning (radio 4) dare we hope that maybe our government might ignore elements of the EU human rights charter and allow parents to dicipline their children in an appropriate fashion?

Perhaps then we can return to those happy times when children were children and did as they were told.

Sadly, however, I feel when the dust settles the government will do what governments do best ... bellow loudly and then do nothing.

[w44nty]

Daytona-bill:

Unfortunately your claim not to be bigot/racist are not supported by some of your posts. Perhaps you could accept that this is the impression that some of your comments leave and moderate future postings accordingly so as to illustrate you are the thourougly nice guy you claim to be.

Having been a member of this forum for some time I can assure you that people on here are not afraid to post their views however it can take some effort to word the postings so as not to offend individuals, which is an important part of living within a community

In today’s world of religious, political, economic and social indifferences, it is important to know where these differences are emerging from. The reasons could be many. Is it because of the cast difference? Is it the difference in the social status? Is it due to the presence of economic non-equivalence? Or is it due to the presence of the few people who cannot stand anything going against their views? Bigots, as they are popularly known, are the class of people who is biased towards his own interests, his own class and his own groups. These groups range from people to people. Some comprise religion in this group; the others include the barriers in race or politics. A bigot never tolerates those who differ from his opinion.

These kinds of persons are not a profit to the society but a bigot is a very beneficial person to his own group. It is needless to say that the devotion that one can expect from a bigot towards the group in which he has a position cannot be matched anywhere in the fellow groups. Being completely biased towards his own religion or race, a bigot can even cross his limits to reach beyond the confined rules and regulations of the society to promote and publicize his opinions. This is where a group earns a lot from. Having this kind of intolerable devotion towards the group, the views the group wants to express reach out to a wider audience, only because of the bigots present in completely active state.

The other aspect of a bigot though is not that appreciable. Having the tendency of getting wild if someone else has a different point of opinion other than his, a bigot can never be an active participant in the progress of a country. Such kind of behavior can go unnoticed in smaller issues. But for bigger affairs like religion and race, this attitude costs the country dearly. Let’s take religion for instance. Going by a bigot’s point of view, the only religion that should exist according to him in this world is the one which he belongs to. The other ones seem to be a fallacy for him. That is not the right way to lead a life. In a democratic country, every individual has a right to live and express his emotions and expressions freely, but that does not mean that one starts opposing something he did not like in other’s religion.

Another important aspect on which these kinds of persons differ is a burning issue. The issue is of race. This is a more prominent and more sentimental affair when it comes to the expression of views. It becomes really difficult for a country to handle comments which attack different race. A bigot, though, does not think about it for a moment and the stubbornness he has is difficult to counter. His intolerance of the fact that there might be a person of different race who is better than him is the main problem.

Having understood both the aspects of a bigot, it’s up to us as to which one we would like to stick to.

I do not believe after reading the description of a Bigot that Neil falls into this category,although I could probably name a few people who do

[Antares_9]

Nobody, but nobody, said he is w44nty, merely that some of his postings could give that impression and that he may wish to consider that in future posts, from a moderators point of view that request stands and for the moment remains a request.

[kfurbank]

Quote "Seriously though, Beat the S..T out of the B.....DS and send them ALL back to where they came from, because in their own country, they would all be shot on site."

Neil what you seem to have forgotten is that we don't shoot people on sight in this country. The other thing you seem to have missed is that a vast majority of the whites, blacks, asians, muslims etc that were involved in the riots were born here, and are British. So were would you send them? The correct answer is to jail or at least serving a punishment suitable to their crime. Finally it was people jumping on the race bandwagon that started the problems in Tottenham. What followed afterwards had nothing to do with race, politics, social disadvantage etc. It was pure short term greed, with the short sightedness that they thought they could get away with it. For many this is now proving not to have been the case, and the complete diversity of backgrounds shows it was based upon greed. Many of those now being sentenced had good jobs, were from good backgrounds or at least were not on the poverty breadline. They have bought shame on their famalies and this country.

[jillR]

here here kieth well said

[Guest]

I think the Online Dictionary's shorter

"One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

is much more succinct than that somewhat tortuous definition from http://www.bigotdefinition.com/

[w44nty]

I think the Online Dictionary's shorter

"One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ."

is much more succinct than that somewhat tortuous definition from http://www.bigotdefinition.com/

I comes down to a matter of opinion,I could have posted the online version but chose the longer version instead,it gives a more in depth meaning not just an abbreviated account.

However I would not try to be clever to undermine another member by my post .

[pks1702]

+1 Kfurbank

I also (very oddly) find myself nodding in agreement with Ponkylav

[C.Ricko]

Send the offenders to Africa to do some charity work, take their passports away for the duration and pay them in food letting them know they are free to leave at any time without their passports.

at least they will not clog our prisons and they will not be 'Networking' whilst locked up...

[Guest]

Quote "Seriously though, Beat the S..T out of the B.....DS and send them ALL back to where they came from, because in their own country, they would all be shot on site."

Neil what you seem to have forgotten is that we don't shoot people on sight in this country. The other thing you seem to have missed is that a vast majority of the whites, blacks, asians, muslims etc that were involved in the riots were born here, and are British. So were would you send them? The correct answer is to jail or at least serving a punishment suitable to their crime. Finally it was people jumping on the race bandwagon that started the problems in Tottenham. What followed afterwards had nothing to do with race, politics, social disadvantage etc. It was pure short term greed, with the short sightedness that they thought they could get away with it. For many this is now proving not to have been the case, and the complete diversity of backgrounds shows it was based upon greed. Many of those now being sentenced had good jobs, were from good backgrounds or at least were not on the poverty breadline. They have bought shame on their famalies and this country.

If they were born here and are British why do they not act like British people.

Graeme

[Guest]

If they were born here and are British why do they not act like British people.

Graeme

I'm not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying you don't think the thugs were British?

Do British thugs perform a better class of thuggery than thugs from elsewhere?

[Antares_9]

Have to agree Lou, I can place no other interpretation on that comment. I wonder if perhaps I was unclear earlier, though I fail to see how so I will obviously have to be clearer, The next ill informed bigoted comment that appears here WILL result in the thread being locked, you do yourselves and this forum a severe disservice with such insular nonsense.

[kfurbank]

Graeme,

I am British, but I wasn't aware that there is any particuler way in which I am meant to act to prove it. There is a set of laws which should be abided by, as is true for most other countries. The laws of this country are there to be followed by the citizens of this country and any visitors to this country. Breaking the law makes you a criminal, whether you were born here, or are visiting here.

The predominately white British people that go to Ibiza, Greece and the East European baltic countries that get bladdered, urinate in the street, get into punch ups and generally give all the British people a bad name because of the way they behave, are they British, or not British because of the way they have acted? or are they hooligans? or even criminals depending on the severity of their misbehaviour? The answer is they are British hooligans, or criminals depending on what they have done.

[w44nty]

Have to agree Lou, I can place no other interpretation on that comment. I wonder if perhaps I was unclear earlier, though I fail to see how so I will obviously have to be clearer, The next ill informed bigoted comment that appears here WILL result in the thread being locked, you do yourselves and this forum a severe disservice with such insular nonsense.

I agree David the thread is getting a bit out of hand,it do not matter what what nationality, race or religion the people who committed the offences are,they should be punished for their crimes accordingly,they have committed a crime and should be made to suffer the consequences.

[Hylander]

I think the world is watching to see how things are handled at the moment. There is a lot at stake here, a lot of peoples livelihoods rest on the good reputation that our country has. Let us hope that things die down now and people can get on with lives as before. The sentences in the past were in some circumstances far too lenient and matters have now come to a head and at least people are being punished for what they have done. Just hope that this is the last of this nonsense.

My heart goes out to those folk who have lost their homes through all this , it really does.

Those of us that are not affected should count our blessings.