topcraft

[Broads01]

On a happier note, I took this picture last weekend. Once a Topcraft, always a Topcraft...

One of its sisters is for sale at the brokerage on Riverside Road.

[NorfolkNog]

I think the number of yards on the Southern rivers which have ceased hiring in recent years speaks for itself. Off the top of my head

Pearson Marine

Astons (Loddon and Beccles)

Hippersons

Bees

Willow

Harvey Eastwood

Fencraft

Alexander

Kingfisher

Highcraft

Castlecraft

Topcraft

Must be more.

Very sad. However I can say that I do support a Southern yard in the shape of Swancraft who I hire from whenever possible.

[afishcallededdie]

Once again, a couple of the recent replies should serve to remind why so few business owners are present on these fora.

You ask for information, it's provided, it's followed by rude, ill-informed comments verging on the slanderous. If any of you want to have a face-to-face in person with the 'bosses' then please be our guest. If not then quit with the personal insults. "Good manners and politeness cost nothing" after all.

Anyway.

I see no reason why any private company should be required to publish the rationale behind its business decisions. Sure, some people will be disappointed. But probably not enough actual customers for it to have been the wrong decision. Either way, it was a business decision, there were sound reasons for it and it wasn't taken lightly.

It is likely that at some point there will be a hire fleet at Waveney River Centre. It will be the right hire fleet for Waveney River Centre and their customers, as judged by that business based on the knowledge and experience of the directors and their staff. WRC is a (multi-award winning) destination rather than a traditional boatyard and the operation and composition of any future hire fleet will reflect this fact.

For the benefit of my old pal Vetchugger, whomever he may be, our visitor moorings are probably the best value you will find anywhere on the Broads. They are free during the day, and cost £10 overnight which includes use of the heated shower rooms. Waste collection is provided free of charge as are the childrens' play areas and you can even sit on my tail. I'm pretty sure Dick Turpin didn't provide all that kind of stuff.

And now, to bed, to dream of fish.

Eddie x

[andyg]

well said james.

[marshman]

Eddie - I could not agree more with your latest comments but that of course is the problem with a Forum. You get many informed comments but then you get a ranting one to spoil it , often without justification and often without having any knowledge on the topic other than an ill informed bias. But thats life as it happens every day in the Press and on television.

In reality I doubt it takes much to get a little deeper if you think about it rather than just pile in without thought. My guess is that early bookings were not what had been hoped and that perhaps they had enquiries for those boats on the Northern Rivers - what would anyone do in those circumstances?

However there may be other reasons and if it is said that they will trial other boats in due course then so be it. At least it shows some thought went into the decision and you can never accuse the person concerned as not being a successful business person!!! On balance he probably knows as much about being successful as most in the leisure sector in this area!!!

Ah well Eddie, we will wait developments with interest.

One final point however does reflect perhaps the continuing trend for shorter breaks - in the South distances between points is greater and many might also perceive there is less to "do". There are certainly fewer facilities and casual moorings have all but disappeared. After all presumably that is why there are actually fewer yards and by and large this is a trend that has been continuing for some time as pointed out. It will be interesting to see hoe Le Boat get on - does anyone know how many boats they are going to operate from Somerleyton?

[VetChugger]

Well, I refuse to let that pass without further comment! The "Dick Turpin" comment was a light hearted observation! However, given the response, there have been many discussions on this and other "fora" about boating costs. Something that affects us all. Especially prevalent have been comments about the pricing policies at WRC. The most expensive overnight charges anywhere! £10 stern on and £14 side on! Norwich & Yarmouth are £12. On top of that charges for water. Remember the comments about time limited low pressure hoses? Charges for showers. (admit I don't know if they still give tokens to overnight moorers) WiFi was almost the worst. Minimum £6 when a friend had to moor to check something.

I also realise and accept that there are some folk who willingly pay these charges and view them as good value. I don't and I reserve my right to my own opinion.

Trevor

www.normanboats.co.uk

[afishcallededdie]

Mr Chugger - I said 'best value' not 'cheapest'.

If you'd read my post you would have seen that showers are *included* in the price of the mooring. For everyone on the boat. This makes us exceptional value.

Water policy is no different to any other marina.

WiFi is as good as BT will provide in the wilds of Norfolk (ie it's rubbish and we're sharing less than a meg amongst everyone on site) but we are working on that.

Norwich & Yarmouth are Broads Authority-operated which is not a fair comparison, you subsidise these through your tolls, and I believe you'll find that the Council collect the waste - a luxury which is not available to commercial operations which have to pay for their own refuse and recycling collection.

Obviously you are entirely at liberty not to use our moorings but passing opinions on facilities which you've clearly not visited in recent years is pretty bad form.

Eddie x

[VetChugger]

My opinion! I made that clear and, as I also made clear, I reserve the right to express it! That is what fora are about telling of experiences and conclusions reached. Those are mine in relation to WRC.

I'm not about to argue every single point but the water policy is not the same in other marinas! £3.75 & £5.85 respectively for stern and side on moorings at Beccles? Not BA!

As for recent years I suspect 2011 isn't that far back in history!

Trevor

www.normanboats.co.uk

[afishcallededdie]

Waveney District Council. Subsidised through Council Tax...

Seriously, I would love for you to come and "Talk to the fish". James will even buy you a pint if you like. You two really should talk to each other.

Eddie x

[Dan]

Once again, a couple of the recent replies should serve to remind why so few business owners are present on these fora.

You ask for information, it's provided, it's followed by rude, ill-informed comments verging on the slanderous. If any of you want to have a face-to-face in person with the 'bosses' then please be our guest. If not then quit with the personal insults. "Good manners and politeness cost nothing" after all.

Anyway.

I see no reason why any private company should be required to publish the rationale behind its business decisions. Sure, some people will be disappointed. ...

An understandable and fair point, but then a business engaging with its customers on the forum will mean that not only decisions that customers are happy with get discussed also. Overall I still think it is good for businesses to contribute.

On one hand it is good that people care enough about your business that they are disappointed at the lack of some more boats staying down south on another hand yes it can be annoying when your business is critscised, but in this age of modern media your customers (or potentional customers) have more of a voice and a way of communicating their thoughts.... sometimes it will be in your favour and sometimes not, and naturally all decisions & actions carry reactions.... is it really suprising or unfair that this one be discussed?

Perhaps the opinion stronger because a lot has been made of the fleet appearing in the media, it certainly makes the withdrawal more disappointing but I doubt anyone is questioning it makes more commercial sense, nor demanding a full explanation of why... though as a discussion forum I think it would be unusual for it not to get discussed.

For myself the main thing is I am glad to see them run as holiday boats from somewhere, as I am glad to see numbers and the industry stay strong, and I agree that larger boats will be easier to let from Horning where for short breaks especially it is possible to cover the main attractions and places people want to visit, but as much was made about the new WRC fleet and this move done later I think some level of disappointment is understandable.

From the point of view of balance and choice it is a shame to lose some (expected) choice on the Southern waters though... but that is not from a business point of view and it good to hear that hireboats may still appear there in the not too distant future....

Dan

[Broads01]

I see no reason why any private company should be required to publish the rationale behind its business decisions. Sure, some people will be disappointed. But probably not enough actual customers for it to have been the wrong decision. Either way, it was a business decision, there were sound reasons for it and it wasn't taken lightly.

It is likely that at some point there will be a hire fleet at Waveney River Centre. It will be the right hire fleet for Waveney River Centre and their customers, as judged by that business based on the knowledge and experience of the directors and their staff. WRC is a (multi-award winning) destination rather than a traditional boatyard and the operation and composition of any future hire fleet will reflect this fact.

Eddie x

Why wouldn't you want to publish the rationale? There are plenty of experienced people on this forum, many of whom hire more than once a year and are either current or potential future customers. Ignore their views at your peril.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

As a buisnessman Eddie, if you think any posts i`ve made are "slanderous", SEUE ME. As has been said above, we are ALL entitled to our opinions, and that goes for me too. It is "MY OPINION" that what you`ve done is bad for the Southern broads, as there are precious little large boats available below Acle bridge. The last thing i want on a relaxing holiday is to have to spend 2 days out of 7 getting down to the southern section. The only place you can hire boats for the larger party is now Brundall. with also 1 boat from Pacifics at Loddon, and i think 1 boat from Sandersons of Reedham. It will be interresting to see how Le Bboat get on(as Dan has already pointed out), but they are very expensive in comparison.

As a Buisnesman, you have done EXACTLY as i said above by making a "buisness decision" and put money before what i would term as "good for the southern broads". As i said above, if that`s slanderous, try and seue me.

And if it`s NOT financially viable to have larger boats on the southern rivers, then try and tell that to the like of Alpha craft, Silverline marine, Pacific cruisers, and Sanderson marine, as they all seem to be doing ok.

On a personal note, i was particularly pleased to see that you were in fact going to operate these boats from WRC, as they would have been better for us location wise, not any more though.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I forgot to add that my wife and i had a fantastic week on the broads last june, and for the first time, we stayed on the southern section, which is probably what we`ll be doing in May this year, as we found the south much more peaceful, and much less crowded.

[afishcallededdie]

WOW Daytona - if that is indeed your real name. You are one angry DUDE.

We THOUGHT we were going to operate 4 boats on the southern Broads. We decided NOT to. This is BAD for the Broads and GOOD for us? Please explain for a stupid FISH exactly how does THAT work?

Tell me Mr Bill, how do you think WRC made MONEY out of this 'business decision'? Please explain the LOGIC behind your OPINION?

Don't worry Mr Bill we won't be SEUEING (sic) you.

Eddie x

[Guest]

As a buisnessman Eddie, if you think any posts i`ve made are "slanderous", SEUE ME. As has been said above, we are ALL entitled to our opinions, and that goes for me too. It is "MY OPINION" that what you`ve done is bad for the Southern broads, as there are precious little large boats available below Acle bridge. The last thing i want on a relaxing holiday is to have to spend 2 days out of 7 getting down to the southern section. The only place you can hire boats for the larger party is now Brundall. with also 1 boat from Pacifics at Loddon, and i think 1 boat from Sandersons of Reedham. It will be interresting to see how Le Bboat get on(as Dan has already pointed out), but they are very expensive in comparison.

As a Buisnesman, you have done EXACTLY as i said above by making a "buisness decision" and put money before what i would term as "good for the southern broads". As i said above, if that`s slanderous, try and seue me.

And if it`s NOT financially viable to have larger boats on the southern rivers, then try and tell that to the like of Alpha craft, Silverline marine, Pacific cruisers, and Sanderson marine, as they all seem to be doing ok.

On a personal note, i was particularly pleased to see that you were in fact going to operate these boats from WRC, as they would have been better for us location wise, not any more though.

WOW Daytona - if that is indeed your real name. You are one angry DUDE.

We THOUGHT we were going to operate 4 boats on the southern Broads. We decided NOT to. This is BAD for the Broads and GOOD for us? Please explain for a stupid FISH exactly how does THAT work?

Tell me Mr Bill, how do you think WRC made MONEY out of this 'business decision'? Please explain the LOGIC behind your OPINION?

Don't worry Mr Bill we won't be SEUEING (sic) you.

Eddie x

to be honest with you its eddies owners yard & his fleet if he stuck them on the southern side might of been nice to see them there but they have decided not to ... so its there fleet there choice i dont see any point in kicking a fuss over something that has nothing todo with us....

Jonny

[Oddfellow]

Goodness me. What a mess. It's a shame that this couldn't be settled over a beer (I'd love to see a tipsy fish) as Eddie offered instead of getting heated like this. Sue me? I think it's time to get a grip or at least a chill pill.

Why shouldn't Eddie publish his business rationale behind the decision? Simple. It's private.

If you don't like that, perhaps we should debate the values of hacking into someone's voicemail and publishing what we hear.

These forums are full of debates about why there are fewer boat yards on the southern section. I would have thought that it's blindingly - because too few people want to hire from there. There's still plenty of yards capable of hiring, they just don't want to or see a return in it. It's easy to say, "well, I'd love to", but you're one, two three, maybe even 100 or 200 people. Whoppie do, well we'll all try to sustain a business on that then, shall we?

[marshman]

Anyways Eddie, just to lighten this up a bit, I understand your boys WERE seen towing a new "craft" up the river the other day following the high tide!!!

To all of your detractors,I am sure this would have offered commodious accommodation - perhaps you should offer this for hire.

Perhaps someone had the presence of mind to take a photo for your brochure - if so can we see it and all have a larf?

P.S. Lets use this to change the tone - pointless ranting over a changed business decision. If I made such a decision, a forum is the last place I would discuss it given the kind of indepth discussions one usually gets - as Jonny says the decision has been made so lets leave it!!!!!

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

No, let`s NOT leave it. It`s a discussion where we, the forum members, are putting our views, and yet again, some of the buisnessmen that use this forum don`t like the tone of the debate, so try and get it dropped. It`s NOT the first time this has happened, and it won`t be the last, but at least i accept other people have a different opinion than me, and i would NEVER try to call a halt to a debate just because i did`nt like the tone of it. I do what i always do, i have my say, which sometimes may, or will, come across pretty strong, and then i`l let others have their say, and i`l respect it, and their rite to have it, and not try and stop it. As for the Sue me bit, If you read the posts again, you`ll read one of Eddie`s, saying SOME comments could even have been slanderous, because he did`nt like them, so it came across to me that Eddie was trying to "strong arm" shall we say, the debate by way of what came across to me as a veiled threat. As a result, i called his bluff by inviting him to "sue me" if he thought any of MY posts were slanderous, which they quite clearly are NOT. The fact is, i pointed out just that, A FACT, and facts are not slanderous. I called Eddie`s bluff, and he lost, because he knows NONE of the posts above can ever be called slanderous.

Having yet MORE large hire boats on the northern section means i will yet again be staying south in May. At least i know we`ll have peace and quiet, and the rivers will be less crowded, and we`ll always get a mooring.

As for the comment about customers NOT wanting to visit the southern section, last year proved to be a record year for boats getting stuck on Breydon, because most of these boats came from yards up north and their crews DID`NT want to stay on the overcrowded northern rivers.

My last comment is, If anybody does`nt like the content or tone of a thread, and can`t respect the members views, be they buisnessmen or ordinary forum members, don`t get involved, or put up any posts.

[petersjoy]

Having yet MORE large hire boats on the northern section means i will yet again be staying south in May. At least i know we`ll have peace and quiet, and the rivers will be less crowded, and we`ll always get a mooring.

I Vote, Lets keep it that way :

[Hockham Admiral]

I Vote, Lets keep it that way :

Completely agree, Paul....... why anybody would want to go to, or stay, North during the Summer season beats me............... guaranteed bumps,knocks or worse and very few mooring spaces...

But that's a private boat's view. What thinks you, Neil?

[afishcallededdie]

I would certainly always defend the right of people (and fish) to have an opinion. But if we spout random 'opinions' without any real thought or factual support then we really should expect to have those 'opinions' challenged. I could for example declare that 'in my opinion' and based on my experience as a freshwater fish, there was no world beyond Breydon Water. Sure, I'm entitled to my opinion - but it doesn't change the fact that its based primarily on ignorance and lack of research so I shouldn't be surprised if I'm challenged.

If I was to go further and started heaving insulting remarks at people who I've never met and know nothing about, then I think I would expect those people to be cross. And on reflection I really don't think that I do have a 'right' to do that. In my opinion, this crosses the line between 'expressing an opinion' and 'being offensive'.

I think there's a consensus that the forum benefits from the input of businesses. It's very easy otherwise to make all kinds of assumptions which before long become accepted fact because nobody has challenged them or put the other side of the story - and there always is another side. But remember that these are privately owned, privately funded businesses; ultimately it is down to the owners of those businesses to make whatever decisions they wish, and those decisions will of course impact the fortunes of the business going forward.

Of one thing you can be sure. If businesses develop the idea that sharing their thoughts on a forum will simply result in insults and accusations of stupidity and greed then you can be sure that before long they won't bother posting anything at all. Let's keep the questions coming and the follow-ups civil.

Of course, this is only my 'opinion'

Eddie x

[Matt]

last year proved to be a record year for boats getting stuck on Breydon

Does anybody know where these "records" are listed? I think it would make interesting reading.

[NorfolkNog]

Let's keep the questions coming and the follow-ups civil.

Sounds very reasonable to me!

[marshman]

Eddie - still hoping for perhaps a comment on your new "craft" I understand you towed back to the WRC after the high tides - or better still a picture!!!!!

Or am I asking too much???

[Guest]

The true value of any forum, (on any subject), is the information within the contributor's posts, and the interest and usefulness of it.

For a Broads forum, it's vital to hear from all interest groups, including Hirers, Owners, and Businesses.

Without representation from all parties, people can become entrenched in a one-sided view, and never realise it.

Forums like this have frequently made me change my mind on certain subjects about the Broads and Boating, and I am grateful for being put right on many things. (bu**er it ! )

Another thought to consider, whenever anyone feels so miffed that they noisily quit a Forum, the main loss is their own, because the people that annoyed them can still interact, whereas they disappear.....