New Engine Dilemma

[rightsaidfred]

I havn't the knowledge to comment on the technicalities, however on the practical side electric propulsion is never going to be viable on the broads, given the nature of the area and type of exhaust on most boats plus  engine hours  particulate pollution is a minor issue with diesel, 1 petrol boat must do more harm than several diesel boats combined.

Given that this is largely a political issue existing diesel engines will be around for decades, with cars they have only brought in a ban on new from a set date not those that were sold the day  before, no government could afford the compensation needed for a total ban, the time to worry will be long after most of us need be concerned, if it isn't broke don't fix it. 

Fred

 

 

 

 

[Andrewcook]

Hi can Rocket Fuel be the the answer even thou it's Dam expensive to put in your Tanks but last a long time thou ? 

[rightsaidfred]

1 minute ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi can Rocket Fuel be the the answer even thou it's Dam expensive to put in your Tanks but last a long time thou ? 

Might be a problem with the speed limits and I wouldn't want to be in the slip stream.

Fred

[Smoggy]

By rocket fuel I assume you mean twin tanks with liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, I think there may be a small issue with the bss, I wouldn't fit a gas cooker or fridge if I were you and certainly put up a no smoking sign, a fire blanket just isn't going to cut it.....

[annv]

Hi Janet I dont know of any engine that cant be rebuilt/reconditioned by a properly equipped work shop,  cost is the deciding factor, back in the 80s a short engine for a fiesta that came from Holland was cheaper to buy than doing a decoke on the same engine along with 12 months warranty and could be done in the same time frame result no body did there own,  a factory short motor from the manufactures isn't as cheap as doing it as one self but at small extra cost along with 12 months warranty and only one or two days of the road was impossible to beat,  compared to one or 1- 1/2 weeks for a rebuild along with no certainty of all parts being available when being needed, rarely does this time frame accrue for boat engines. the likes of Richardson's,   H Woods and other hire company's will have spare engine available to drop in as soon as its  required,( more modern engines have more than double the life span of older engines and less reliant on servicing, when i  started in the motor trade in the fifty's a car would have a grease service every 1000 miles then oil change every 3000 miles with filter change at 6000 miles a decoke possibly every 25,000 to 35,000 miles compare that to modern day cars today, and your BMC and Perkins engines are of this errare)   so its not surprising that less available spares are kept locally, so only specialist company's or main agents will keep them where as nearly every garage use to keep spares for older engines as they where needed more regularly. The petrol and diesel engines will be with us for decades for agricultural and of road uses along with the fuel,   they may as reported will not be made for cars for road use, the diesel engines in boats providing they have a wet exhaust and in good condition are less polluting than their road  use would be,   electric driven boats in private use can be more economically better but! require  a competent user and not for inexperienced hirers that want to do the whole broads in a week.  exception is  day boats a nife lead acid battery bank costing £2,500/£3000 would last 30years if look after along with solar charging would be cost free less the cost of  distilled water , of cause you would still need generated electric in addition,  but with only two to three hours cruising each day or two solar could cope along with hook ups when available and generator back up for long  runs . John

[NeilB]

6 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Might be a problem with the speed limits and I wouldn't want to be in the slip stream.

Fred

 

6 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

Hi can Rocket Fuel be the the answer even thou it's Dam expensive to put in your Tanks but last a long time thou ? 

Been at Southampton boat show for a week, this is sitting outside my hotel room.  Not Quite rocket fuel but does have 3 x gas turbines!!

https://bravechallenger.co.uk

[annv]

Hi Neil Hydrogen fuel is used to produce electricity via a fuel cell then drive a electric motor not burned to go bang quite safe on a boat and will pass the bsc, John

[Smoggy]

Hydrogen on it's own is likely to be safer than petrol or lpg as any leaks will go upwards and vent to the atmosphere  instead of dropping into the hull.

[annv]

Hi Nanni dont make engines they adapt engines often Kubota just like beta and peachments do  they get the base engine from manufactures and marinize them, the base engines can be refurbished/reconditioned. John

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, annv said:

the base engines can be refurbished/reconditioned.

They can be exchanged, through Nanni, but we found that, although they can be rebuilt and we tried a few, it is not economical in cost of parts, or labour hours. Sometimes, a new injector pump makes a great deal of difference.

[WherryNice]

JCB are planning on using Hydrogen in internal combustion engines for their future heavy plant stuff, there are videos on YouTube about it, perhaps it may cross over to marine applications.

[annv]

Hi Vaughan Perhaps if you had contacted Kubota direct who's factory is at Thame Oxfordshire they would be cheaper,  Nanni would have just been the middle man adding there commission to the factory price as no doubt Beta and Peachmounts would do for Kubota engine parts unless it was a non engine  part that they have manufactured to complete the marinizing build. John

[NeilB]

8 hours ago, WherryNice said:

JCB are planning on using Hydrogen in internal combustion engines for their future heavy plant stuff, there are videos on YouTube about it, perhaps it may cross over to marine applications.

There are quite few projects around and this has been operating for a while now.

https://www.rina.org.uk/cmbembarks.html
 

[annv]

Hi Neil You wont be able to convert existing diesel engines. John

[NeilB]

1 hour ago, annv said:

Hi Neil You wont be able to convert existing diesel engines. John

Cannot seem to get a direct link to work, need to search for "CMB" in the Rina link and select story no.2 but these were existing engines.  I don't have all the details as it was not approved by us but as far as I'm aware it's still working today.

[annv]

Hi Neil A hydrogen engine needs a spark to ignite the fuel bit difficult with diesel engine with out changing the head, petrol engine yes,  much like propane powered adapted petrol engines are although they are less efficient but if fuel is cheaper!!, and  emission's are less of cause,  but at what cost, hydrogen is also difficult to contain, electric is still cheapest and easiest option so far,  BUT the future may change things. John

[rightsaidfred]

35 minutes ago, annv said:

Hi Neil A hydrogen engine needs a spark to ignite the fuel bit difficult with diesel engine with out changing the head, petrol engine yes,  much like propane powered adapted petrol engines are although they are less efficient but if fuel is cheaper!!, and  emission's are less of cause,  but at what cost, hydrogen is also difficult to contain, electric is still cheapest and easiest option so far,  BUT the future may change things. John

No technician but there will never be the infrastructure to support electric vehicles let alone boats, stop fretting just stick with diesel it will still be around long after most of us.

Fred

[Oddfellow]

On 20/09/2021 at 13:58, annv said:

Hi Vaughan Perhaps if you had contacted Kubota direct who's factory is at Thame Oxfordshire they would be cheaper,  Nanni would have just been the middle man adding there commission to the factory price as no doubt Beta and Peachmounts would do for Kubota engine parts unless it was a non engine  part that they have manufactured to complete the marinizing build. John

I bought hardly any Nanni parts due to the cost. I had contacts at various Kubota dealers who could provide all engine parts at a fraction of the Nanni cost. 

[NeilB]

1 hour ago, annv said:

Hi Neil A hydrogen engine needs a spark to ignite the fuel bit difficult with diesel engine with out changing the head, petrol engine yes,  much like propane powered adapted petrol engines are although they are less efficient but if fuel is cheaper!!, and  emission's are less of cause,  but at what cost, hydrogen is also difficult to contain, electric is still cheapest and easiest option so far,  BUT the future may change things. John

Sorry, should have said it's dual fuel, info is in the article.  

 

[grendel]

I saw a report on my companies internal website yesterday regarding 2 test hydrogen homes that have been built, one was the introduction of hydrogen into the regular natural gas supply at levels up to 10%, this was only approved by the gas regulator (s a trial) less than a month ago, and the other was a 100% hydrogen home, this was supplied by a bank of 10 gas bottles (I can see a distribution issue arising here if they go down that route, but I guess it will be piped in along the gas pipes in regular use). hydrogen has issues when used in a heating appliance- eg cooker, the flame is not visible at low levels (despite the addition of sodium to give a nice orange flame) Hydrogen does not give out as much energy when it burns (requiring bigger jets thus burning a larger volume of gas) and the hydrogen flame is more concentrated (ie it does not spread as much and gives a more point source of heat from the jet.

All of these are issues that will need to be resolved before it will ever be allowed to go into production, particularly the yellow flame, I would imagine that will generate a deal of mistrust that the appliance is burning correctly amongst users.

 

 

 

[Vaughan]

13 minutes ago, grendel said:

All of these are issues that will need to be resolved before it will ever be allowed to go into production, particularly the yellow flame, I would imagine that will generate a deal of mistrust that the appliance is burning correctly amongst users.

Can't say I like the sound of that.

In modern central heating units you don't see the flame anyway.  All you know about its operation is the bill for the annual servicing.  On a cooker or oven though, it sounds as though this will make a big difference to users.   I remember all the kerfuffle when cookers had to be converted to North Sea gas.

[annv]

Hi Also Hydrogen has containment issues with some materials that could cause leaks, this means i believe that it will only be viable in big/large industrial uses as a burnable fuel,  hydrogen used in a fuel cell producing electricity is another more violable means and is used for this on boats now. John

[ZimbiIV]

Do not bother with engines, as soon as the mega-billionaires get sick of space travel they will create Teleportation, with a special program for sailies that bounces them off the Ionosphere and stratosphere in the way they are accustomed to travelling.

paul

[Bikertov]

On 20/09/2021 at 11:38, WherryNice said:

JCB are planning on using Hydrogen in internal combustion engines for their future heavy plant stuff, there are videos on YouTube about it, perhaps it may cross over to marine applications.

Don't JCB make marine engines be for some of the larger sea going mega boats ?

[SteveO]

I don't think that not being able to see a hydrogen flame is a big deal. Our modern Worcester Bosch heating boiler has a blue LED which glows when the boiler is heating water. The actual combustion process is buried in the guts of the unit.