Hire Boat Fresh Water Tanks.

[andyg]

We are onboard dazzling light in just over a weeks time. We were chatting with our friends that will be onboard with us last night, when I mentioned we had to fill the tank up daily. The girls seemed quite surprised by this fact ( they are new to boating) and it got me wondering if all hire boats use a standard size tank. The boat is capable of sleeping 10 so I'm assuming it's quite a large tank ?? 

[Jonathan]

Even if the tank size was standard, the use by individuals differs.  Does the boat use river or fresh water for toilet flush?  Does the boat have a water level gauge?   If you all have lots of showers and use gallons washing up the plates then frequent re-fills will be necessary.  If there are only four of you on a boat designed for (up to) ten, then the water should not be a problem, allowing you to fill less frequently; so I would think that you could go for several days without a refill, but if you moor up near a water supply then it makes sense to top up the tanks.

I suggest that you try to re-fill after one day, then you can see how much you have used (how long it takes to fill) and you will be able to estimate how often you really need to fill the tanks.

Have a chat with the boatyard staff.  They will be able to tell you how big the tank is and suggest how often you should fill it.

[Meantime]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

I suggest that you try to re-fill after one day, then you can see how much you have used (how long it takes to fill) and you will be able to estimate how often you really need to fill the tanks

I would suggest that even that is not a very good metric. Neatishead and one or two others have a very poor flow rate, whereas Barton Broad has probably three times the flow rate of Neatishead.

My fresh water tank holds 480 litres but it will really depend on what spare space the yard could utilise to fit a tank when they were doing the fit out. 

I would just try and keep the tank topped up on a daily basis. If there is a hose where you are moored overnight then use it. If you are passing a hose with a free mooring nearby and you haven't filled up that day then stop off and fill up.

 

[CeePee1952]

All good sound advice given already. We hired Sovereign Light at the beginning of September 21 (Friday start day). The yard told us that the fresh water tank held 250 litres when full. The four of us (adults) showered daily and drank coffee and tea as normal every day. I didn’t top up the tank until Sunday morning at Wroxham. First night there was no water hose to use (Thurne Dyke) and Saturday we couldn’t get near the water point at Ranworth. We topped up again on Wednesday at Richardson’s at Stalham and that lasted until we returned the boat on the Friday. I think the loos were flushed with river water but not 100% sure! I don’t think we ever got anywhere near empty but not having a water gauge I had no way of knowing!

Chris

[Vaughan]

52 minutes ago, Meantime said:

My fresh water tank holds 480 litres

I think I could have guessed that yours would be a lot bigger than average.

Perhaps I should withdraw that remark?  

All the same, the reason is clearly obvious. We alway say fill up every day because we don't want people phoning the emergency number at 10 o'clock at night to say they are in Rockland Short Dyke; they haven't got any water and they can't feed their month old baby.

In fact, almost all hire boat tanks should last two days, or more. As others have said, it depends how much you use!

 

 

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I think I could have guessed that yours would be a lot bigger than average.

Which begs the question, what is the average? 

My boat still has the tank fitted by the hire yard that fitted it out.

[Oddfellow]

There is no "standard size" for tanks on any boat. 

Tanks are made to fit spaces and the weight needs to be balanced across the vessel to avoid severe listing to one side. Some boats may have a central tank, some will have diesel and water tanks of very similar capacities which will be mounted on opposite sides of the beam, some will have a water tank on each side which are connected to balance them. 

Obviously, if the boat is intended to berth a lot of people it would be expected to will carry a larger amount of water than a smaller one. Lady of Freedom had two large tanks under the rear decks. Way larger than the boat needed, but the weight was used for ballast to keep the stern end down. 

 

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

Which begs the question, what is the average? 

My boat still has the tank fitted by the hire yard that fitted it out.

There is no "average". Sweet Freedom has a tank of about 38 gallons for 2 people, whilst Lady of Freedom, a boat initially designed to carry 4 people had about 100 gallon tanks and Fair Freedom for 10 people carried (at a guess) maybe 150 gallons across the beam in two tanks. 

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Oddfellow said:

There is no "average".

Clearly Vaughan thinks there is, otherwise he wouldn't have said so! So I wonder what it is?

 

[Vaughan]

9 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Clearly Vaughan thinks there is, otherwise he wouldn't have said so! So I wonder what it is?

Thank you for excusing my sense of humour!

I would think getting on for 500 litres would be a lot of fresh water.  Must be a bigger than average boat.  Let's not get into that again!

In the 60s and before, most boats had a 70 gallon diesel tank and the water tank would not be much bigger.  The later Crown boats built for France had a 320 litre diesel tank - for at least 2 weeks cruising - and water tanks of about the same.

But then came electric toilets!  Unless these are flushed by river water, they use an enormous amount of fresh water and a tank gauge becomes almost obligatory.

There is also the thought that with modern grey water holding tanks, then the grey tank has to be even bigger than the fresh water tank.  Then you get to what Andy has mentioned, that all this has to balance up the stability of the boat.

I have found that the best way to tell if you need to fill the water is to look at the waterline when the boat is moored up.  If the tank is empty, the waterline will be about an inch and a half higher!

[vanessan]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I have found that the best way to tell if you need to fill the water is to look at the waterline when the boat is moored up.

I can tell when our water tank is full by a wardrobe door closing automatically!   When it is way down, the wardrobe door stays open. 

[Broads01]

I wish more hire boats had water gauges. I tend to fill up every day regardless of how many people aboard because it gives me peace of mind. 

[Meantime]

6 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I have found that the best way to tell if you need to fill the water is to look at the waterline when the boat is moored up.  If the tank is empty, the waterline will be about an inch and a half higher!

So I have a slightly different problem. The foul tank is one side and the diesel tank is the other. The fresh water tank is under the centre berth and is sensitive to which way the boat is leaning. So at the start of the week with an empty foul tank, full diesel tank and full water tank the boat is level. As the week progresses and the foul starts to fill, and the diesel starts to empty slightly the fresh water will find its own diminishing level towards the foul side and accentuate the lean that way. Fill the fresh water tank and it will still settle on the heavier side of the boat. 

This also means the boat will prop walk to Port in reverse, in varying degrees of severity depending upon the state of the tanks.

In the very early days of ownership I fitted a water meter on the outlet of the water tank. I then filled the tank and ran it until it was empty. The meter read somewhere very close to 500 litres, and I have always treated 480 litres as giving me a margin of error. Whenever I fill the tank I read the meter and then during the course of usage I can read the meter again and knowing what I have used, can work out how much I have left.

Is 480 litres bigger than average. Who knows but I've been told its a generous size and I've had no complaints yet!

[andyg]

9 hours ago, Broads01 said:

I wish more hire boats had water gauges. I tend to fill up every day regardless of how many people aboard because it gives me peace of mind. 

Totally agree, maybe many an hour wasted filling up tanks at no more then a trickle that didn'treally need to be. Gauges would definitely help 

[BroadAmbition]

'Wonder Tanks' - so named because one is constantly wondering how much water is in the tanks

We cured that one during the restoration and fitted a water sender / gauge so we wonder no more, we know at a glance.  Same for the diesel and black holding tank too.  Incidentally  we measured the tanks onboard, the diesel tank holds 35 gallons / 157 Ltrs, the two fresh water tanks combined hold 150 gallons / 675 x Ltrs plus a 5 gallon expansion tank and a ten gallon hot water tank.  The fresh water tanks (S/steel obviously) were originally fitted during build.  All we have done to them is sterilised regularly and fitted a deck filling point on the Port tank

The Onboard loo is as vetus 12v macerator type that uses fresh water to flush.  We are aware that this can be an issue, not so much the amount of fresh water it draws from the fw tanks but that constant flushing fills up the holding tank much faster.

If its yellow - Let it mellow, if it's brown - flush it down

However when on our annual Lads Week, the Jewel of Lights do indeed have the traditional ' Wonder Tanks'

Griff 

[Lulu]

Think we have approx 420 ltr tank. Fuel approx 160.  Like Meantime, we could easily tell when nearing empty by the jaunty angle Luna sat in the water and the feeling we’ve had one too many when standing in the saloon. We have now fitted a gauge which is brilliant. Up until we fitted it, we filled up with water whenever we could, but now its easy to see what we have left we usually fill up after 3 days unless I’ve washed the boat. We both have showers  each day, washing up, the toilet is flushed with water from the fresh water tank.  

[Bikertov]

A question to think about with fresh water tanks - is it not better to run them down then refill, rather than keep them constantly topped up ?

Surely then you always have "fresh" water rather than a lot of old water in the tank ?

[Meantime]

17 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

A question to think about with fresh water tanks - is it not better to run them down then refill, rather than keep them constantly topped up ?

Surely then you always have "fresh" water rather than a lot of old water in the tank ?

When I fitted the meter on the outlet to my tank I also fitted a T piece with a valve and a hose pipe down into the bilge. If the boat has been left for a while I open the valve and let the water drain down into the bilge before a short flush, then I close the valve and let the tank fill.

I also carry a 10L fresh water container which is used for drinking or boiling for coffee and tea etc.

For hire boats I would imagine the frequent turnover of water in the tank keeps it fairly fresh. Generally speaking mould and other nasty things will only grow where there is sunlight present which is why water hoses are normally food grade Blue hosepipe that doesn't let the sun penetrate so that bacteria doesn't grow inside them. Again because the tanks are steel and the pipes on boats are generally solid grey plastic no sunlight gets through to start the growth of bacteria.

[vanessan]

22 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

A question to think about with fresh water tanks - is it not better to run them down then refill, rather than keep them constantly topped up ?

Surely then you always have "fresh" water rather than a lot of old water in the tank ?

You then have to take the risk that you may not be near a water point when you need to fill up. Unfortunately water points can be few and far between, especially on the southern rivers. 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

Generally speaking mould and other nasty things will only grow where there is sunlight present which is why water hoses are normally food grade Blue hosepipe that doesn't let the sun penetrate so that bacteria doesn't grow inside them.

Absolutely right.

This is the main problem with "drinking" water on the Broads.  It is not your own tank that is the problem - it is where you got the water from!  Hoses left in the sun will grow the bacteria e-coli, which can cause all sorts of things including legionaires' disease.  Also make sure that you leave a boatyard hose hanging up off the ground and not lying on the quay, where other people's dogs can piddle all over it.  To say nothing of all the Canada geese.

When filling the water tank in the spring (it is drained in winter) dose it with water treatment tablets from a chemist.

[Meantime]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

When filling the water tank in the spring (it is drained in winter) dose it with water treatment tablets from a chemist.

I use Aqua Mega tabs upon a full refill of the tank when the boat hasn't been used for a while, but don't really like the taste hence the 10 litre container used for drinking or boiling water for coffee and tea. This is always the last thing filled so any hose used to fill the main tank will also have been freshened as much as possible. The 10 litre container is then regularly sterilised with Milton.

[BroadAmbition]

A question to think about with fresh water tanks - is it not better to run them down then refill, rather than keep them constantly topped up ?

Surely then you always have "fresh" water rather than a lot of old water in the tank ?

Erm - I was lead to believe that all water is the same age - Millions if not billions of years old?

Talking more sensibly (A rarity I admit), we adopted the policy of leaving 'B.A' on her home berth with minimal f/w in the tanks, then fill up prior to sailing, this way we have a majority of 'Fresh' water in the tanks.  The hoses in the wetshed are always off the floor (Well the open end is) and of course no direct sunlight on them.  We sterilise both tanks and all pipes every two years using the baby milton gear from a chemist.  We don't filter or purchase bottled water at all.  Just use it straight from the tanks as you would at home. In fourteen years we have never had a crew suffer with bugs or upset stomachs either.

Works for us

Griff

[Meantime]

Off course if your really worried about bugs in the water then the best bet is to use bottled or canned water with alcohol added to ensure it's safe. Comes in many flavours and differing amounts of gas. 

[Broads01]

I remember being told that when filling up, turn the tap on with the hose still outside the boat. I believe this enables any water sitting around in the hose to drain away. I've stuck to that since being told - is it a good idea?

[andyg]

Offten wondered if the hire yards flush f/w tanks out after the boats have sat about all winter. 

[RS2021]

28 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

I remember being told that when filling up, turn the tap on with the hose still outside the boat. I believe this enables any water sitting around in the hose to drain away. I've stuck to that since being told - is it a good idea?

I've always done this too. Also before I put the hose into the filler I always wash the first couple of feet of the hose with the water coming through the hose.