There Is A Legal Requirement To Give Assistance

[ChrisB]

Not wishing to detract from Ian's post I will post the following here.

[Smoggy]

Not just limited to lifeboats and coastguard of course, it's the obligation for everyone at sea (if able) to assist when a distress is spotted or received, even if only involves keeping an ear to the radio in case you can be of help.

[floydraser]

I think the point being made was that the trafficers and anyone not making enough effort to stop them, are taking the rise out of the RNLI. If their funding starts disappearing they may start to bring pressure to prevent it happening in the first place, and maybe their voice would be quite loud. As long as trafficers know the good old RNLI will be there to help, they'll keep sending them over.

[grendel]

i hesitate to point out that that i believe there are naval patrols too, who would also be duty bound to render assistance. 

[Vaughan]

This is why UK passport and immigration controls have been at Calais, not Dover, since a ship becomes responsible for any illegals who are found on board and turned away from Dover.  They can''t repatriate them as often, they have no legal country of origin anyway.  So they might well get stuck on the ship.  Same applies to aircraft.

[marshman]

Naval patrols still do but thats not newsworthy!!

Like many others, I too support the RNLI, and am pleased they rescue all those in peril if needed. There was quite a lot in the papers sometime ago about others following a small few who withdrew their support - I was quite pleased to read the post by the OP suggesting it is not an option but a legal requirement.

I am sitting here next to my warm radiator and cannot believe the danger and privation some of these people go through because of their circumstances - they are not all worthless people, with many being qualified individuals and whilst we do take some that actually make their way here, its nothing to refugees taken in by some other European countries. We have always through the ages relied on immigrants of all creeds and colours to do jobs we do not want to do, and I do not think it appropriate to try and influence the RNLI just to ignore them.

[Mouldy]

10 minutes ago, marshman said:

Naval patrols still do but thats not newsworthy!!

Like many others, I too support the RNLI, and am pleased they rescue all those in peril if needed. There was quite a lot in the papers sometime ago about others following a small few who withdrew their support - I was quite pleased to read the post by the OP suggesting it is not an option but a legal requirement.

I am sitting here next to my warm radiator and cannot believe the danger and privation some of these people go through because of their circumstances - they are not all worthless people, with many being qualified individuals and whilst we do take some that actually make their way here, its nothing to refugees taken in by some other European countries. We have always through the ages relied on immigrants of all creeds and colours to do jobs we do not want to do, and I do not think it appropriate to try and influence the RNLI just to ignore them.

Have to agree MM.  We may think that we’ve been hard done by over the past couple of years, deprived at times of freedoms and luxuries that we have come to accept and expect.  It’s all to easy to forget those who’ve escaped from war torn countries or from where things that we take for granted on a daily basis are not available.  Can we blame them for seeking something better?

There but for the grace of God, go I.

[YnysMon]

I wish I could like the last couple of posts several times. 

[floydraser]

7 hours ago, marshman said:

I am sitting here next to my warm radiator and cannot believe the danger and privation some of these people go through because of their circumstances - they are not all worthless people, with many being qualified individuals and whilst we do take some that actually make their way here, its nothing to refugees taken in by some other European countries. We have always through the ages relied on immigrants of all creeds and colours to do jobs we do not want to do, and I do not think it appropriate to try and influence the RNLI just to ignore them.

I too support the RNLI. BTW if anyone wants a good diary for 2022 then the RNLI one is as good as any, I usually have one every year.

Qualified people should have a good chance of getting in via legal channels. I admire anyone prepared to move half way round the World to support their family; they are also usually a good bet if you are an employer looking for someone to do hard graft. However, the people coming over in boats most likely don't meet the criteria for entry. We could spend more on naval support, the RNLI and benefits to keep them when they get here but that doesn't do anything about the root cause.

It amazes me that while journalists (those pillars of modern society who contribute so much) are able to find these people in France and follow their stories, no-one it seems is able to communicate to them properly, that coming over the channel is not such a good idea after all. They need to know that while we all have sympathy for their plight, this is not the land of plenty.

[YnysMon]

Qualified people from other countries who are currently employed have a good chance. Qualified people displaced by war and other circumstances, not so much. Many of them when they reach this country are barred from working until their status is sorted out.

[DAVIDH]

Can we remember also that these boats are not just filled with economic migrants. Whether this is the land of milk and honey or not, we have signed up to the 1951 Refugee Convention (I'm not that clever, I had to look it up) to allow people into our country who are fleeing persecution, which from the look of where they are escaping from, seems to fit the bill. 

"The top five countries of nationality for asylum applications (from main applicants) were:  Iran  (6,002), Eritrea  (4,412) Albania  (4.010),  Iraq (3,042) and Syria (2,303)." 

There's more illuminating facts here, such as how many refugees the UK takes in as opposed to our European neighbours. Funny how you don't see these facts reported in the press. Are they just telling us what they believe we want to hear? If that's the case, does that make us a racist country at heart? 
https://www.unhcr.org/uk/asylum-in-the-uk.html

[floydraser]

At mention of the "R" word I withdraw from the debate.

[ExSurveyor]

Would a racist country take in displaced Jews, Ugandan Asians, thousands of at risk Afghans  and a whole host of others over the years ?

Germany and a number of other European countries have a much older population and a desperate shortage of younger man power, they need the influx of migrants to keep the economy going.

The UK is at the end of a very long route of safe countries, therefore our numbers should be a lot lower than others.

 

 

 

[BroadAmbition]

are not just filled with economic migrants. 

Correct - they are also filled with illegal immigrants too

allow people into our country who are fleeing persecution, which from the look of where they are escaping from, seems to fit the bill. 

Fleeing persecution?              where they are escaping from?              -  France - really?

 

Other facts that regularly get ignored is the size of the countries that immigrants are trying to enter.  Just look at the size of france and Germany then look at the size of UK, if we were to take the same numbers we would be needing to build whole new towns, concrete and tarmacking over green belt

Here's another statistic that I read a while back, each illegal immigrant costs us the taxpayer £30'000 per year, that figure is the combined cost of housing, social care, nhs, dental, clothing, food etc etc.   Last month in just ONE day a thousand illegal immigrants arrived on the shores near to Dover - That's £30 million, yes million, for the coming year and that is just one days influx. How far would that go towards our own homeless and other needy issues we have?

Here in Donny we have a hotel named the 'Danum' it is a biggun too.  Our local nursey childcare group had a Christmas party for the kids booked with them, I say had as it has been cancelled with immediate effect.  So have all the other events at this venue - Why? - Because for the next three months at least the hotel is now closed to the public as it is fully taken up with illegal immigrants - Nice one Donny council.  Our own homeless on the streets and we the taxpayer are picking up the tab.  Impressive

Griff

 

 

[marshman]

Griff - you are of course entitled to your view!

[BroadAmbition]

I would hope I am just like everyone else.  What I am not entitled to is 'My own facts' - neither is anyone else

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

Marshman - Nearly missed that one and only just clicked on, my previous post to you isn't a 'View' its fact and what is happening!

Griff

[grendel]

while I can understand your views Griff, how certain are you that the facts you quote are actually facts, there are a lot of provably incorrect facts being posted on the internet, for example if I wanted to know immigrant / migrant numbers, I would ask my colleague that works in uk customs at dover, who is far more likely to have access to the correct numbers than some internet page that had a reason for wanting to post the numbers that they do, whether that would be to mislead, or because they themselves had been misled by a different site posting incorrect data. as i have said elsewhere the data posted on the internet fails far short of the accuracy and proof. if it is posted by a news outlet, then you can almost guarantee the data is skewed in some way to present their story, and story it is, not fact, i have yet to see a verifialble fully factually correct news report from any news media- oh the story may be based upon a grain of truth, but it sure doesnt reflect the true fact anymore.

 for example your £ 30,000 figure, where does that come from, a search by me indicates that true refugees can only claim the same as a uk resident which is capped at £13,400

the above is based upon a fact check done by reuters on the costs of illegal immegrants and their verdict was the claim that the costs were £29,900 was false.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-immigrant-benefits-uk-idUSKBN22J30G

Thus my reason for asking where these figures came from. As the figure of £30,000 is plainly incorrect.

[grendel]

unfortunately for me its in my nature to ask whether any fact quoted is verifiable and correct, as soon as I see numbers and figures quoted, I want to know where they came from, I suppose I am a natural sceptic.

its been proven to me time and time again that newspapers are no longer a reliable source of information, or any news media, for me news media have become a farce, they are pushing stories out, without fact checks and with only a regard for selling their product, even the BBC cannot be said to be blameless in this any more, they all have their own agenda and push stories out to the masses to make them believe what they want you to believe.

posts on facebook and similar are even worse, people post incorrect data, and it is passed back and forth gaining trust as more people are deluded into believing the false data.

to some extent people believe, because that is what the media want us to believe, they spread discord and mistrust, and that suits their agenda.

I just wish more people would do even rudimentary fact checking before passing things on as proven fact.

[Smoggy]

The first question for any fact has to be "what is the source?" only then can a decision be made around how acurate the fact is, and then it's usually an educated guess at best.

I doubt even the customs guys know the true numbers as they only know the ones caught, they too can only guess at the numbers in an empty washed up raft.

[Ray]

50 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

I doubt even the customs guys know the true numbers as they only know the ones caught, they too can only guess at the numbers in an empty washed up raft.

The ones who don't get caught are the only ones that are illegal immigrants, they can't actually claim anything officially. The rest are refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants. They may have arrived illegally but they are in the system and deserve to be treated with the dignity we should afford every human being in distress.

Are there people born and bred here who are poor, sick, homeless? Of course, but don't believe for one second that blocking the English Channel would result in more resources for them!

[BroadAmbition]

The ones who don't get caught are the only ones that are illegal immigrants,

Really? - So the ones who arrive in dinghies / boats and get 'Caught' are perfectly legal immigrants are they? I never knew that.  Why would they need 'Catching' if they are legal immigrants?

The rest are refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants.

Refugees and asylum seekers from France? - There it is again - Of course they are - I didn't know the system had reclassified them to suit some folks ideals

They may have arrived illegally - You want to make your mind up, did they or didn't they arrive illegally? only the ones that are caught or not? 

but they are in the system and deserve to be treated with the dignity we should afford every human being in distress - This one I can agree on

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

Grendel - for example your £30,000 figure, where does that come from, a search by me indicates that true refugees can only claim the same as a uk resident which is capped at £13,400

You could well be correct Grendel, that £30'000 figure I read somewhere months ago now and I wasn't even looking for it.  That capped figure of not being allowed to claim above £13'400 - does that include what  is not 'claimed' but handed out? the cost of full accommodation, meals etc in many hotels around the country will soon eat into that including just one of our own hotels here in Donny.

We'll probably never know the real figure but I would think we can all agree it will be in the tens of millions per year and increasing day by day

Griff

[Meantime]

Since not many, if any make it as far up The North sea as to arrive on the shores of Lowestoft, or Great Yarmouth, I'm not exactly sure why this topic is being discussed here? 

I have my own view on the subject, but I also have the view that here is not the place to share it.

[marshman]

Thread drift?? Is that unusual??