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Never mind...I have insurance


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Hi, picture the scene... girls sitting on the back of the boat in our marina whilst I am (re)polishing. A Herbert woods hire boat comes in and try's to stern moor in the private space next door. As I look across I see the guy who was at the helm standing on the bank with this boat carrering away from him across the Marina with nobody onthe helm. He walks to the end of my pontoon on an attempt to stop the boat just as it crashes into my rib, pushes that tight to the davits, hits the barge on the other side of me and comes to rest on another boat in the corner .He says to me" it's ok I have insurance" I was not best pleased and replied its not ok in I am ashamed to say, rather colourful language. He told ne to watch my language as he had his young grandchildren on board, what! This is the guy that leaves his grandchildren on a boat with no helmsman and to top it all, as I pointed out to him, with no lifejackets on. Any one of the crashes the boat went into today could have easily had the kids off over the back. Eventually he got back on board and without even a " sorry" or stop to see if there was any damage buggered off.

I know we all started somewhere and are not immune to accidents.. But then there's accidents and idiocy!

Or I am just turning into an old git?

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First things first you are and old git :grin: but your right to be pi...ed off

I think the marina should be taking responsibilty for these accidents by employing a person to controll the movment of the boats alittle better.

But the problem is, you more your boat in a public marina as I did last year and got hit regularly with sometimes quite a bit of cosmetic damage.

I think people have very very little training and are then let go to there own devices and when they crash into thinks some!!!! of them feel no responsibiliy and maybe even a bit of they can afford to fix it as they have a big boat not realising that some of us are just normal working class people with a passion for all things boats whom spend every last penny on there pride and joys.

So I would highly recomend moving your pride and joy to a private more secure marina

cheersbar Barry

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Not suprised at all to hear that the carnage continues at WRC. Because of the mix of private boats in the basin and hire craft the damage done is respectably much higher to those private boats. I know that EVERY time we visited the Marina last year, without fail, I saw at least one collision causing some sort of damage. Needless to say we have not visited at all this year.

Last week whilst on the way up to Surlingham I had the pleasure of a hire boat coming SIDEWAYS through Reedham Bridge at us, one coming off the quay flat out in front of us without any warning... and then people wonder why I jump up whenever a hire boat comes in to moor anywhere near me

If people say this is hire boat bashing - well this time it is as I have to say that so far this year, I have to say that I have seen more loose handling than ever before....Maybe I have a magnet in my boat!!!

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Your not alone Gavin,Last week when visiting the WRC for a couple of days (season ticket member) i saw this hireboat coming towards me side on to the floating pontoon next to me i jump up to fender them off as you do,and she sheepishy said first time out,sorry.at least she appoligised.

another hireboat came right up to me side on (and he had a bowthruster) old chap trying to turn the boat roand using only the thruster not realising that his stern was about to bash into my electric winch i jumped up AGAIN the young boy did not know what to do so i pushed it off with great difficulty.

another dayboat came in to the basin at such a rate of knots i thought he was in a race to the finishing post. all in a days mooring at the WRC (happy days)

as Gavin says its not knocking hireboaters entirely but there does seem to be a lot of first timers this year and it shows. I get to the point of wanting to kill some of these idiots but then count to ten..

Some Private boaters do not get away with it neither with a lot speeding with large wash. especially on the way to and fro Brundall is there some race going on that we don't know about.with the price of deisel as it is you'd think they would drive more leiserly no sorry what was i thinking of they don't do that . Roll on the autumn when it will be quieter and serene with no stress involved.

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Sorry to hear of your incident you old git!!

I fail to understand the number of hire craft we jave seen this year where everything is left up to one person. The number of times we have seen someone at the helm, who has to get the boat into the mooring and then has to leave the helm to go and get the ropes and jump off to tie up is unbelievable. All this tends to happen whilst "crew" is sitting there being no more use than a stuffed moose. It sounds like your incident could have been a symptom of exactly that yet again.

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Must say we were moored at Colltishall Friday with fifty yards of mooring space in front of us when a Barnes hire boat came in and brushed us, as he was going slowly thank goodness.On chatting later he said that he had virtually no tuition and did not know how to turn the lights on until he got a torch and found the circuit breaker panel. :norty::naughty::o:(:?

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Sadly I really think that sums it up. Maybe the brief should have a basic competency test. If you've hired before it would be a breeze whereas if it was all new a bit more tuition would be required. Unfortunately alot of people lie about their level of experience in every field of life and to overcome that in many businesses statutory training and inductions are given. An example is the construction industry where, no matter how many projects you have worked on before, it is compulsory for you to undertake mandatory instruction in the health and safey procedures on that site before you can even get a single tool out, then you are questioned on your work to ensure the job you are going to do is the correct one. There are many industries that are similar

If I hire an aeroplane from a new company despite having many hours on type, I would still expect a check flight from one of the companies instructors before soloing or going off with friends

So why does it seem all this is forgotten when the word boat is mentioned?

Oh and before someone says 'yes but an aeroplane is far more dangerous' well statistically it isn't!

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Yes we will get hirers saying that they have more experience than they do and hirers who have been before

but don't actually mention that it was so long ago that they have forgotten how a boat handles.

Also it is not always the person who was on the helm when they did the demo who is driving...

On my first trip on the Broads I let my dad drive up the Ant, and we accidentally brushed the side of a yacht moored up on of the bends with our stern quarter.

When I remonstrated with him as to "After 25 years in the Royal Navy, how did you forget the stern comes out when you turn the bows in?"

His reply was,

"Because I was a CPO Stoker not Seaman, and the last time they put me in charge of a boat

was to take a motor whaler from Yarmouth (IOW) to Cowes and back on June 5th 1944..."

As for those who seem to want to helm and do everything else including jumping off with the mooring lines,

there is a general tendency among boaters (on the sea as well as on the broads), for the skipper or owner to helm and expect the crew to do the jumping, even when this isn't the best use of the crews' capabilities.

How often do you see some little whippet of a wife / girl friend jumping off and trying to pull the boat in while the rugby player boyfriend is at the helm.

(It doesn't always work the other way either, as I found out trying to get Dad to drive so that I could handle the jumping etc.

After that first trip I vowed never to go on the Broads again unless I had someone else on the boat who was under 70!)

If all the yards went for a minimum level of instruction and a test before you could take the boat out of the yard then they would need more demonstation staff or a lot of hire-boats would become floating bungalows for at least the first night.

Perhaps that is the answer, educate the hirers to expect to spend their first day receiving instruction and not to expect to leave on the first afternoon. Where the crew obviously know what they are doing then the yard could say that "You can go off this afternoon if you want to".

But I do seem to remember a bit on the Norfolk Broads Yachting Company's web-site about experience...,

Yes, found it:

"The natural caution of the inexperienced often counts for more than the over confidence of the experienced. We will take account of RYA qualifications, but it is factual to state that some of our worse "mishaps" have occurred at the hands of RYA "Yachtmasters" with no previous Broads experience!!!"

I think that it is in the yards' interest to check that the hirer is given sufficient instruction before they let them loose, as they have to patch up any damage that they do, but how do you police it.

Unless we go for a "certificate based" system as they do in parts of Europe, we will always have to expect novices on the water, and expect the yards to say "OK" or "I think you need more instruction".

But if you needed a minimum of an ICC (International Certificate of Competence) to skipper a boat on the Broads then the hire businesses would probably be in trouble, and many private owners would have to beat a path to the recognised Boating Schools to take their exams.

I believe that the standard ICC course is a one day affair, but that assumes that it is just a refresher for someone with experience, and even at that I can't see many first time hirers wanting to spend the first day of their holiday doing a formal course (to say nothing of the wife and kids who just want to get on with their holiday)

I have, however, seen the concept of "Gain a qualification whilst on Holiday" growing in the Sailing (Rag & Stick) community.

You can now go out to places like Greece and do a "Day Skipper" course which will allow you to then apply for an ICC,

but most of those are aimed at only having the students around whilst the course is being run.

Other companies run things like "Villa Flotilla" where you have land based accomodation for a week and go out during the day for training whilst the family laze around the pool, and then go off on a yacht for the second week.

Perhaps the yards should be promoting something similar, a "Learn to skipper a boat on the Broads" course during the off season.

Four or five students and an instructor out on a boat for a couple of days, they could even go through Yarmouth and back on a course like that.

I wonder how many first-timers it would interest, and would some people who are worried about taking a boat out be attracted to the Broads? Of course, on the other side, would other potential first-timers be put off if they saw something like that being advertised?

Hm, how much experience would you need to be an instructor, could some of us get more time on the water on the cheap? :P

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I think that is one of the most constructive posts I have ever read in relation to the 'assumed experience ' question. Obviously every hire company will defend themselves but in light of recent events (as previously discussed) is it going to be long before some form of statutory training requirement becomes reality?

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Barry, I thought with Norfolk Broads prices it already was!

Incidentally when I was a child I so wanted my parents to take a hoeseasons holiday on the Broads. It never happened, despite them both having good jobs it was way out of their price range.. Not much seems to have changed!

My parents took two holidays on the Broads, but in both cases I paid for us to do it. :lol:

When I was a child holidays were far simpler than they are these days, few people went abroad,

and our family holidays were built around a family seven day rover ticket on the Southern Railway.

Day trips to Portsmouth, Arundel, Littlehampton or Bournmouth and the highlight, changing at Havent onto the "Puffing Billy" steam train and down to Hayling Island.

When we started to get adventourous Dad and I went Youth Hosteling on our bike (a 1939 Tandem), and over the years covered most of Great Britain, with a trip from Southampton to Loch Lomand and back being our longest expedition (1100 miles in 14 days).

Many families these days wouldn't think of these as a holiday, and the price of travel and the expansion of traffic may have made them a thing of the past...

Compare the price of hiring a boat on the Broads with other family holidays available, and it isn't necessarily that expensive, especially if you have a large party, (e.g. I can take eight people and a dog out for a week in August for about £22 per person per night.)

How does the cost of hiring a static caravan on one of those coastal parks, compare with hiring a mobile one on the Broads?

I know it is a lot cheaper to go to Norfolk than think about taking a large family overseas, or even on the canals,

There are still lots of people who can't afford a "real" holiday, but on the whole our standard of living, and disposable income, in Britain has risen over the last 50 years.

This is also indicated by the rise in private boat ownership, but that is to me a definite realm for the richer side

as I can't justify it on the amount of time I could use my own boat.

In yachting circles there is a saying that "A boat is a hole in the water into which you pour money".

But even here Norfolk isn't as costly as other locations, look at the prices for a marina berth on the Solent and cringe

(One of my friends was paying £7200 a year for his 42' Bavaria on a floating berth accessable at all states of the tide)

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