Just A Heads Up- Boat Damaged At Neatishead

[floydraser]

45 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

I have before now after requesting a bank side fisherman to move offered him ‘B.A’s well deck or foc’sle to continue fishing from if there is no bank left available. Also offered hot / cold drinks too. I will continue to do so. After all I’m an Angler mysen 

Griff

Crikey, would he have to take his boots off first? 

I was catching up with these posts and wondering about giving any pleasant, cooperative fisherman a beer or hot drink. Ramp it up to a pasty or two and when the word gets round they'll be parting for you even if you don't want to moor: "Over here mate! Chuck us your rope!" 

[Cheesey69]

38 minutes ago, andyg said:

Just another example of the aggressive confrontational society we live in, poor boat owners. I watched a crew and fisherman have a right good laugh about mooring up last year at gayes, in the end they all ended up chatting and having a beer. Exactly how it should be,and who on earth carries a can of paint around with them. Sounds more like some random vandalism to me...

And totally ignore the other people complaining of confrontation by other anglers.

I carry all sorts of stuff in my van. Even when I go out fishing. 

[Polly]

There was a maggot throwing incident a while back. Broads Beat didn’t say what they were going to do, but they did sort it. Give it a bit of time and see what happens ?

[Smoggy]

5 hours ago, Andrewcook said:

One other not to bear in mind the annual Boating Season starts in February so let's hope peace & good will coexist between Boater & Anglers

There is no such thing as an annual boating season, boating season is when you wish to go boating and lots like the winter when it's quieter.

[CambridgeCabby]

As far as I can see currently any accusation levelled at an individual or group of individuals is merely speculation , we as members of the NBN cannot and should not support any action other than passing on factual information to the correct official bodies .

 

[grendel]

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23 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

As far as I can see currently any accusation levelled at an individual or group of individuals is merely speculation , we as members of the NBN cannot and should not support any action other than passing on factual information to the correct official bodies .

 

this thread was started to try and give a warning to those who might be intending to moor at that location to be aware, and to try to encourage anyone who knows anything to report it to the correct authorities.

I know that the favorite sport of forums is speculation, but its really not helpful. 

if you have information, pass it to the broads authority or broads beat and let the authorities sort it out from there

 

 

[JanetAnne]

35 minutes ago, grendel said:

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Shame

[Chelsea14Ian]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

There is no such thing as an annual boating season, boating season is when you wish to go boating and lots like the winter when it's quieter.

Don't know where got that idea from.Boats are out all year,

[FlyingFortress]

2 hours ago, grendel said:

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this thread was started to try and give a warning to those who might be intending to moor at that location to be aware, and to try to encourage anyone who knows anything to report it to the correct authorities.

I know that the favorite sport of forums is speculation, but its really not helpful. 

if you have information, pass it to the broads authority or broads beat and let the authorities sort it out from there

 

 

So the warning is to stay away from Neatishead 

mmmmmm

[ExSurveyor]

5 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

So the warning is to stay away from Neatishead 

mmmmmm

No, the request is not to use the forum to organise any mass visit to the moorings.

[Vaughan]

Some may think I am sitting a thousand miles away from all this but it could very easily have been my daughter's family on my boat, when this happened.  The boat is moored nearby in Stalham, they often cruise off season and often use the Neatishead moorings.

I was a special constable on the Broads (in Ludham) for nearly 7 years and have seen similar acts of vandalism committed.  Thankfully quite rare.

I still remain un-convinced that this damage can actually be linked to the people fishing on the moorings at the time. Although the supposition is understandably obvious there are as yet no FACTS to support it.

There is a difference between speculation and the asking of relevant, concerned questions :

1/. Were the fishermen interviewed the next morning the same ones who had been on the moorings the day before?

2/. Were the ones the day before, fishing all night? 

3/. I know people often fish at night but they usually have tents, powerful pressure lamps (to attract the fish) and I doubt they are there for 24 hours or more, at one "sitting".

4/. Was there a personal argument between the boaters and the fishermen, which led to an act of retribution?  From what we have heard here, it seems not - but the act itself still seems to have no particular motive.

5/. Would the fishermen really have done something like this when it was glaringly obvious that they would be blamed for it?

6/. Was this simply a mindless prank by kids on bicycles after a few beers on a Bank Holiday?

This is a disturbing act of vandalism in a popular and tranquil holiday location but we must be objective and see that there is just no EVIDENCE at the moment, to start a witch hunt against fishermen.

That said, the BA will be aware by now that they have a big problem of antisocial behaviour on their moorings.  What is more it is a recurrent problem.  Let us wait until after the holiday, to see what they do about it.

[Mouldy]

Whilst I agree with Vaughan to a large degree, it is fair to say that a proportion of the angling community do little to enamour themselves to the boaters, even during the main boating season.  Many times we see anglers on BA moorings, with several rods set up, a keep net, a chair, perhaps a tent and despite the fact that they are supposed to give way to boats wishing to moor, you know that there is no way that will happen.  It’s also true that large gaps are left sometimes between boats on BA moorings to facilitate angling from the bank.  As has been said before, perhaps it’s now time to ban fishing from the bank on any such moorings, but only to allow it from moored boats.

There are places on the southern rivers where we’ve moored before and struggled to fit in between the anglers, Loddon basin, Bramerton and Worlingham for example.  Whether this incident was caused by anglers or by anyone else, there is an issue which needs addressing.

[Hylander]

34 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Some may think I am sitting a thousand miles away from all this but it could very easily have been my daughter's family on my boat, when this happened.  The boat is moored nearby in Stalham, they often cruise off season and often use the Neatishead moorings.

I was a special constable on the Broads (in Ludham) for nearly 7 years and have seen similar acts of vandalism committed.  Thankfully quite rare.

I still remain un-convinced that this damage can actually be linked to the people fishing on the moorings at the time. Although the supposition is understandably obvious there are as yet no FACTS to support it.

There is a difference between speculation and the asking of relevant, concerned questions :

1/. Were the fishermen interviewed the next morning the same ones who had been on the moorings the day before?

2/. Were the ones the day before, fishing all night? 

3/. I know people often fish at night but they usually have tents, powerful pressure lamps (to attract the fish) and I doubt they are there for 24 hours or more, at one "sitting".

4/. Was there a personal argument between the boaters and the fishermen, which led to an act of retribution?  From what we have heard here, it seems not - but the act itself still seems to have no particular motive.

5/. Would the fishermen really have done something like this when it was glaringly obvious that they would be blamed for it?

6/. Was this simply a mindless prank by kids on bicycles after a few beers on a Bank Holiday?

This is a disturbing act of vandalism in a popular and tranquil holiday location but we must be objective and see that there is just no EVIDENCE at the moment, to start a witch hunt against fishermen.

That said, the BA will be aware by now that they have a big problem of antisocial behaviour on their moorings.  What is more it is a recurrent problem.  Let us wait until after the holiday, to see what they do about it.

Good post Vaughan.     The Management here seems to think your answer number 6.       Just hope they went home with blue paint over themselves.    Somewhat of a give a way.

[Hylander]

2 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Whilst I agree with Vaughan to a large degree, it is fair to say that a proportion of the angling community do little to enamour themselves to the boaters, even during the main boating season.  Many times we see anglers on BA moorings, with several rods set up, a keep net, a chair, perhaps a tent and despite the fact that they are supposed to give way to boats wishing to moor, you know that there is no way that will happen.  It’s also true that large gaps are left sometimes between boats on BA moorings to facilitate angling from the bank.  As has been said before, perhaps it’s now time to ban fishing from the bank on any such moorings, but only to allow it from moored boats.

There are places on the southern rivers where we’ve moored before and struggled to fit in between the anglers, Loddon basin, Bramerton and Worlingham for example.  Whether this incident was caused by anglers or by anyone else, there is an issue which needs addressing.

No excuse at Worlingham,  there are bespoke platforms for fishing.

[BroadAmbition]

Somewhat of a give a way.

Giveaway to whom?  Parents, partners, neighbours? certainly not the Ba or Police which renders the giveaway pretty pointless.

I agree there is no evidence of whether the deed was carried out by vandals or anglers. 

But come on for goodness sake this is the real world here.

The biggest giveaway was the next morning when Mr Boatowner questioned the anglers who stated they had not a clue what he was on about and could not see owt when it was pointed out to them, could see their floats quite clearly though, would not look him in the eye, were dismissive but with a nasty attitude.  If it was 'Just vandals' don't we think the anglers would have gone to great lengths to protect their honour and deflect blame away from their group? been friendly, offered assistance / support / sympathy?

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck the chances are it will not be a horse

How would any of us feel if this had happened to our own boats and it was us that had been intimidated, then no help or assistance offered?

Griff

[Vaughan]

27 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

it is fair to say that a proportion of the angling community do little to enamour themselves to the boaters, even during the main boating season.

 

28 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

 Whether this incident was caused by anglers or by anyone else, there is an issue which needs addressing.

I whole-heartedly agree with that!

But perhaps I am saying that it may be a separate matter from this particular incident.

In my career I have known dreadful examples of violence, intimidation, foul language, threatening behaviour and criminal damage from fishermen - suffered by my customers as much as myself personally.  I assure you they are not just like this on the Broads.  They are the same wherever I have seen them.

I was once actually fired on by a fisherman with a 12 bore, because I had gone over his line, when he himself was invisible behind a bush on the bank.  When I showed the Gendarmerie the close spread of shot in the gelcoat of the boat, about 18 inches behind where I was sitting in the open cockpit, this particular "sportsman" was locked up.

Fishermen do themselves no favours by their attitude as a whole and their own associations seem to have no control over it.  It is indeed an issue which the BA and EA have been needing to address for a long time now.  If this brings it to a head, so much the better.

I just feel that there is still not enough evidence in this case, to go flying off the handle.

[Vaughan]

52 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

The biggest giveaway was the next morning when Mr Boatowner questioned the anglers who stated they had not a clue what he was on about and could not see owt when it was pointed out to them,

Griff, I really do understand how you feel but no-one can be accused of an offence simply because they have denied it.

[FlyingFortress]

In Chronological order. 

Ex Surveyor 

Noted 

Vaughan 

I could answer a lot of your questions but in the spirit of your post I will refrain except that there are facts in Q6 that indicate otherwise. 

I do however agree in the main with your post. 

Hylander 

See reply above. 

Griff

As usual nail, head, hammer. 

Well said 

I will refrain from commenting furthur unless there are glaring inaccuracies that need correcting. 

Any further communications on this will be made by phone. 

[grendel]

pending further developments and answers, we are seeing that we seem to be heading down the route of unanswerable questions and speculation, which was never the intent when this thread was originally posted, the moderation team have decided that this thread will be locked. If you feel that you have further relevant facts or developments to add, please contact me and we will consider unlocking the thread for further comment. 

As it is at the moment the discussion is going around in circles

[grendel]

after taking some time to reflect I have decided to unlock the thread again so discussion can continue,

I would gently remind you that despite what you may think happened if we cannot prove it, then we should not make accusations - real or implied (apparently even I was found guilty of this in my initial post, so its easily done).

there have been some good points made in the posts and questions asked, that might never have an answer, but if we can provide information that leads to a resolution, then we should at least allow for that to happen.

for anyone interested I took a break from the forum for a few hours to mull this over (and to get another light fitting done for the Broad Ambition Model)

[floydraser]

Could I suggest an annual fishing match: boat owners vs anglers? Losers get the beers in.

All over the waterways anglers and boat owners seem to be natural adversaries. Maybe a few initiatives to bring them together wouldn't go amiss.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Not for me the only fishing I do is with  chips .

[BroadAmbition]

Hmmm, which team would I be in? 

I'm a angler, hirer & owner in that historical order

Natural adversaries? Maybe but not how I look at the big picture.  I'm a grateful Broads user along with all the rest (I hope) no matter what their pursuit / hobby.

I am against those carrying out wilful criminal damage to further their own pursuits above others - Unless of course some will now take it to the next level and say it was maybe an accident 

Griff

[YnysMon]

It’s up to each of us to play down any adversaries. I’m sure it must play both ways.

[Bikertov]

47 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Could I suggest an annual fishing match: boat owners vs anglers? Losers get the beers in.

All over the waterways anglers and boat owners seem to be natural adversaries. Maybe a few initiatives to bring them together wouldn't go amiss.

Whilst I am not into football, it seems a bit like City vs United - we all love the Broads, but coming at it from different angles, although some like both aspects ...