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"all Inclusive" Prices


jeffbroadslover

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How can boatyards advertise "all inclusive" prices for  holidays they sell you when the price you pay does not include everything?

The price you pay may include Fuel, Insurance, Cancellation cover, car parking all of which were classed as extras at one time.

I have yet to see that the cost of moorings, pump outs ,passage through bridges, water top up etc are included making the price TRULY all inclusive.

It would be interesting to hear how they can advertise something and not supply it when it has been paid for

Jeff

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44 minutes ago, jeffbroadslover said:

I have yet to see that the cost of moorings, pump outs ,passage through bridges, water top up etc are included making the price TRULY all inclusive.

Surely all those costs are outside of the control of the yard you hire from! Would you expect TRUELY inclusive to include the cost of your travel to the hire yard, and maybe the cost of travel home afterwards? Perhaps it should include the cost of eating and drinking out in pubs and restaurants all week?

My view is that all inclusive is for all the items under the direct control of the hire yard. 

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36 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Surely all those costs are outside of the control of the yard you hire from! Would you expect TRUELY inclusive to include the cost of your travel to the hire yard, and maybe the cost of travel home afterwards? Perhaps it should include the cost of eating and drinking out in pubs and restaurants all week?

My view is that all inclusive is for all the items under the direct control of the hire yard. 

I agree. Bit like All Inclusive holidays abroad. Once outside of the hotel complex, the cost is down to what you indulge in and decide to pay for :default_biggrin: there’s so many variables to cater for. For instance, on the Broads, the number of pump out(s) would depend on how many curries I eat (or not!) :default_blink:

Chris

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5 hours ago, Meantime said:

Surely all those costs are outside of the control of the yard you hire from! Would you expect TRUELY inclusive to include the cost of your travel to the hire yard, and maybe the cost of travel home afterwards? Perhaps it should include the cost of eating and drinking out in pubs and restaurants all week?

My view is that all inclusive is for all the items under the direct control of the hire yard. 

I completely agree.

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Ferry marina introduced the so called AI boating holiday. For me it's just a marketing gimmick playing on the overseas AI craze. It is of course stacked in the yards favour and in my opinion of no benefit to the customer at all. Sit down and do the numbers. But if people are happy to pay for it that's there business. Friends of ours visited potters back in November for a weekend they worked out that they couldn't physically drink enough alcohol or eat enough food to justify the price that they had paid. And what lunatic came up with the idea of giving Brits abroad AI holidays...glug glug.. All inclusive isn't all its made upto be. Do your research....

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Didn't Blakes used to lease Malthouse Broad and Cockshoot Broad to give their customers 'inclusive' access? Didn't both Hoseasons and Blakes employ the pilots at Potter to give their customers 'inclusive' bridge passage? Even today Herbert Woods offer their customers a Privilege Card offering discounts on eating out and tourist attractions. OK not inclusive, but deals well beyond the yard.

I can't get too exited about inclusive or not. For me what is the bottom line I have to pay for my holiday, so transparency is key. If yards include too many things I don't want it will make them look expensive and un competitive, but customers seem to be paying... at least at the moment. I can see in the next few years as pressure grows on reducing the use of fossil fuels, any yard which is serious about green issues will bring back fuel deposits as a way of being seen to encourage their customers to reduce diesel consumption.

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On 11/01/2022 at 17:01, jeffbroadslover said:

I have yet to see that the cost of moorings, pump outs ,passage through bridges, water top up etc are included making the price TRULY all inclusive.

It used to be, when Blakes and Hoseasons had around 100 boatyards on the Broads.  The only payable extra that you mention above, was pumpouts.

All inclusive is all very well but it must be a customer choice, not an obligation.  To insist on a damage waiver certainly used to be illegal, so one must assume the yards concerned have found a new "loophole".  It would be interesting if a customer were prepared to take the issue to court.

Above all, we don't know what seasons are going to be like in the next few years.  Will it be boom or bust?  I just hope that some of these yards are not biting the hand that feeds them.

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I do find it strange that when hiring from any boatyard, the offer of free pumpouts during your boating holiday is a bit of non-starter, especially when certain boatyards are at the end of the navigation limits for most boats. We are hoping to get down to the southern broads in Sep this year when we hire from HW. There’s no way we will be returning halfway through the week to take advantage of a “free” pumpout back at our place of hiring!!  Even last year when we cruised the whole (well almost) of the northern broads, we wouldn’t have returned to the hire yard just for a pumpout so why offer it in the first place is beyond me.

Chris

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For exactly that reason, they know to well very few would return for a free pumpout. Just another gimmick 😉 I have to say we very rarely need a pumpout. Not sure if our loo habits are odd or we spend way to much time in the pubs and restaurants using there's lol...

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I would tend to agree, however last year we returned to the boatyard with both of our hires (first time ever)

In late June, we returned the following day as the dog badly hurt her leg and I wanted the car to get to a vets in Beccles

In September, the other couple that came with us had to return home on the Wednesday as they had grandchildren to look after

On both occasions, Richard at Pacific Cruisers pumped out both toilets and filled my tanks up with water while we were out!

I didn't ask or expect it, he just did it!

I don't know why I was surprised, it's just another thing that makes Pacific's service so good  :default_smile:

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7 hours ago, CeePee1952 said:

I do find it strange that when hiring from any boatyard, the offer of free pumpouts during your boating holiday is a bit of non-starter, especially when certain boatyards are at the end of the navigation limits for most boats. We are hoping to get down to the southern broads in Sep this year when we hire from HW. There’s no way we will be returning halfway through the week to take advantage of a “free” pumpout back at our place of hiring!!  Even last year when we cruised the whole (well almost) of the northern broads, we wouldn’t have returned to the hire yard just for a pumpout so why offer it in the first place is beyond me.

Chris

I think it very much depends on where you're starting from and where your route takes you. When we hired from Bridgecraft last year it worked out well because we went south to begin with and came back north on the Wednesday. When we hired from NBD, we stayed north all week and revisited Wroxham on our way to Coltishall, so that was a handy free pumpout as well.

Do you need one midweek? Often yes, in my experience. It very much depends on how many crew you have versus how many toilets.

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49 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

 . . . . . . Do you need one midweek? Often yes, in my experience. It very much depends on how many crew you have versus how many toilets.

And what type of toilet is fitted to the boat, imho.  The more modern automated flush toilets obviously use more water to flush than the older manual types, where you can control how much water is used.

When we were on our boat in October for an extended break, we stopped for water at Pedros, Acle on a Monday and spoke to a couple on a Broom Cadet who’d been aboard their hire boat since Friday and we’re already needing a pump out.

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Water consumption in the auto 12v macerating flush toilets can be controlled to some degree.  They usually have three flush settings, small flush, large flush and evacuate.

The crew can help a lot by using shoreside facilities when available.  Then of course there is that well used saying which works:-

If it's yellow - Let it mellow'

If it's brown - Flush it down

:default_icon_eek:

Griff

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We have always used shore facilities where available and the onboard facilities when not, or at times of the day when it was just impractical (Early morning visit gents!)

As such in many years of boating, on many different vessels, with a variety of shipmates we have never needed a pump out midweek for a 7 day trip and rarely also on a 14 dayer.

I do recall we had a fortnight on Moon Voyager once and where we also went south for 4 days with 5 adults on board and did arrange a pump out, but other than that I can't recall ever needing one...

That was more down to 3 early 20s lads on board who had one night.....to the next morning in Norwich drinking copious amounts of alcohol followed by huge kebab's!! 

But other than that occasion I don't recall needing one

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Well, there's one topic gone down the toilet!

I am surprised there is not more feeling from members about all inclusive.  Do you think it should be an option or are you happy just to pay up?  If you think your holiday will cost more that way, you would be right.  And in some companies I have known you would be more than right!

Would you rather pay for the fuel you actually use, if you are just on the north rivers?

Your car insurance has an excess, which you accept and are happy to pay if you do minor damage.  So is boat insurance any different? Should you have to fork out more, just to cover the excess?

 

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46 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Well, there's one topic gone down the toilet!

I am surprised there is not more feeling from members about all inclusive.  Do you think it should be an option or are you happy just to pay up?  If you think your holiday will cost more that way, you would be right.  And in some companies I have known you would be more than right!

Would you rather pay for the fuel you actually use, if you are just on the north rivers?

Your car insurance has an excess, which you accept and are happy to pay if you do minor damage.  So is boat insurance any different? Should you have to fork out more, just to cover the excess?

 

Definitely think it should be an option!  Last year we had a week on Sovereign Light in Oct.  Only did the northern broads due to the tides not being favourable that week to get down south. We still managed to cover virtually all of the northern broads and using the tidal flow (albeit negligible) and sensible speed, we only used approx £30 worth of diesel so got the balance from a £175 fuel deposit back!!  Had that been all inclusive, that would have been a hefty profit for the boatyard!! Damage waiver of £65 (non refundable) - again I believe if no damage sustained or caused that should be refunded as well.

Chris

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1 hour ago, Tempest said:

 

As such in many years of boating, on many different vessels, with a variety of shipmates we have never needed a pump out midweek for a 7 day trip and rarely also on a 14 dayer.

I do recall we had a fortnight on Moon Voyager once and where we also went south for 4 days with 5 adults on board and did arrange a pump out, but other than that I can't recall ever needing one...

 

You obviously dont have me on board with a health problem.   Wont go into what.   We and there is only the two of us always have a pump out after 3 days.       On Captain the loo was showing as 3/4 full after 3 days.      It all depends on how much time you spend on the boat.   We do not go ashore much and certainly dont use pubs.      Griff's mantra is an excellent one.   

Talking 'all inclusive'   not all yards do 'cancellation insurance'.   Ferry Marina for a start, so we have had to organise our own.   They made no secret of it,  it is just something they dont do.

 

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14 minutes ago, CeePee1952 said:

Damage waiver of £65 (non refundable) - again I believe if no damage sustained or caused that should be refunded as well.

Er .. just to clarify, as there is a difference which can be easily mis-understood.

It is the security deposit which is refunded if there is no damage, as this represents the excess on the boat's insurance.

The damage waiver is non refundable, as you are in effect, taking out insurance against the excess.  It is this "private" type of insurance which can be considered illegal if it is not offered as an option.

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

I am surprised there is not more feeling from members about all inclusive.  Do you think it should be an option or are you happy just to pay up?

Many years ago I used be responsible for pricing at the Electricity company I worked for. The one thing customers hated was the Standing Charge (even if there is good reason for it as many costs - especially network costs are fixed) - 'why should we pay it is we don't use much electricity' we used to hear. Now roll forward and you can buy 'Unlimited' broadband packages, 'Massive 20GB' Mobile phone packages and of course 'All Inclusive' holidays and folks lap these deals up. If only we had known then it was as simple as changing the branding to get customers to like it...

If yards can offer all inclusive at good prices people will pay all well and good, if they are simply using it as an option to increase prices then I think they will come unstuck. I do think we are in peculiar times at the moment with the pandemic shifting customers to UK holidays and we are seeing silly price increases right across the UK holiday market, so maybe yards think they can get away with it, but I suspect it won't last.

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

I am surprised there is not more feeling from members about all inclusive.  Do you think it should be an option or are you happy just to pay up?

Personally for us we don’t mind the all inclusive option. We know it can cost us more overall. So we compare prices between boats we’re interested in by factoring in what the fuel cost is likely to work out to for a boat from Richardson’s compared to an all inclusive price from Ferry Marina or NBD. If cruising out of season on an all inclusive hire then we run the engine for a while at the moorings if we need to and keep the heating on all evening without worrying about the cost of the diesel as it’s already paid for.

We like being able to get away more quickly on return of the boat to the yard without waiting for the fuel usage and deposit to be sorted out.

Having said all that, it is interesting to directly compare all inclusive prices between FM and NBD. 

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12 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

so maybe yards think they can get away with it, but I suspect it won't last.

And I suspect you may be dead right!

 

9 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Personally for us we don’t mind the all inclusive option. We know it can cost us more overall. So we compare prices between boats we’re interested in by factoring in what the fuel cost is likely to work out to for a boat from Richardson’s compared to an all inclusive price from Ferry Marina or NBD. If cruising out of season on an all inclusive hire then we run the engine for a while at the moorings if we need to and keep the heating on all evening without worrying about the cost of the diesel as it’s already paid for.

We like being able to get away more quickly on return of the boat to the yard without waiting for the fuel usage and deposit to be sorted out.

Having said all that, it is interesting to directly compare all inclusive prices between FM and NBD. 

This is a very good post, as you have the experience to weigh up the options and make your own choice.  In your case, in the off season, it sounds like the right choice.

But CHOICE is the still the operative word.  If the yards are now trying to cash in a bit more by making it compulsory then I fear they are pushing the limits.

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