Boat Wanted.

[ranworthbreeze]

1 hour ago, addicted said:

We had a full canopy over the stern. It made very little  difference to the lack of comfort and cruising in the rain was a real problem  with no windscreen wipers and a windscreen made of clear vinyl which used to mist up very badly. This was one of the reasons we hated the cruising aspect of narrow boats. 2 people could never cruise comfortably together in the "cockpit" as the tiller was very intrusive on the space available and the person not at the helm was always in the way of the tiller at some point. So you ended up with one at the stern and the other one in the cratch (bow section) not very sociable  and not how we like to boat at all.

 

Carole

Carole that sounded like a poor designed narrow boat. In the many years we have been on Narrow Boats we have always had two if not more members of our crew near the tiller. My wife however preferred sitting at the bows which was silent other than the lapping of water against the bows.

 

[CambridgeCabby]

If you’re after a center cockpit , I can certainly recommend a Sheerline 950cc , only 31ft length but has a fixed twin (or double) forward , a fixed boat double astern and a plus 2 double by converting the settee in the saloon , we have a separate shower room and wc forward , and the stern cabin has an on-suite wet room , we have only owned her since September but are extremely happy with our choice .

We had an aft cockpit before which I loved but the extra space we have now is amazing 

[RS2021]

6 hours ago, addicted said:

We had a full canopy over the stern. It made very little  difference to the lack of comfort and cruising in the rain was a real problem  with no windscreen wipers and a windscreen made of clear vinyl which used to mist up very badly. This was one of the reasons we hated the cruising aspect of narrow boats. 2 people could never cruise comfortably together in the "cockpit" as the tiller was very intrusive on the space available and the person not at the helm was always in the way of the tiller at some point. So you ended up with one at the stern and the other one in the cratch (bow section) not very sociable  and not how we like to boat at all.

 

Carole

I've never liked canopies on either narrowboats or cruisers. I think the popularity of canopies on narrowboats has risen with the rise in 'continuous cruisers' and has much more practicality as a porch when tied up than when cruising.

A full traditional stern on a narrowboat is great for one person as you can stand in the hatches and close the door. You also stand with a very warm stove by your feet and it's chimney up your back. Not sociable I agree. Go for a cruiser or semi trad stern for that. Mind you I do know someone who had a cruiser stern narrowboat with under deck heating and a 12V socket to plug his heated biker suit into.

[Karizma]

54 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

If you’re after a center cockpit , I can certainly recommend a Sheerline 950cc ,

or a Sheerline 1030, which is exactly the same layout as CC's ...... just a little longer. And we are delighted with her.

[Bogart]

Hi

Right I am back with a lot more questions.

Done a fair bit of looking at boats in the last week.

Now the questions first few relate to prices.

1. One thing I have noticed is the wide variation in prices for basically the same boat, year condition etc

For example there were, now both sold, two Shetland 27s,both 2010. Inboard version £64k outboard version £43K

I was very interested in the outboard one but unfortunately missed the boat  as deposit taken earlier the

morning I visited. Anyway £20k looks a lot to me between inboard and outboard.

2. Again on prices have seen a couple of Viking 275s. 2021 model at £75k and a 2020 model at £77k

I have been quoted £80k, open to a deal, for a brand new one direct from Viking. I know boats do not 

devalue like cars but to me the new one seems the obvious option.

3. Right now links to a couple of boats for your knowledgeable opinion as to value for money and 

suitability for Broads usage.

https://www.norfolkboatsales.co.uk/inventory/?post=12647

https://www.nya.co.uk/boats-for-sale/alpha-26-8/

The second one was in my mind as to get me on the water and find out what I really need.

Final link

https://www.norfolkboatsales.co.uk/nautic/

Looked over a new one at Brundall yesterday and my wife very taken with it, as she would be knowing her.

Anybody ever heard of this company. The boats are Polish but very little info about them on the web.,

And finally a couple of more general questions.

When viewing various boats am told following

Oh yes will get under all bridges

Will get under most bridges

Will def not get under Wroxham or Potter Heigham

How annoying will I find it to not be able to go north of Wroxham towards Coltishall or go

east from Potter Heigham?

And finally finally can anyone recommend a good boating map of the Broads.

That is it for now folks.

Many thanks in advance.

[Jbx5]

Hi  my opinion through experience I think you would get a bit fed up of carrying petrol cans around as there aren’t any petrol pumps any more around here. 
The Shetlands seem a good starter boat but they do seem to change hands quite regularly for some reason.

There is a Shetland 29i on again which gives better stern on access but it’s a bit over priced in my opinion. 

There isn’t much decent around at the moment I’m afraid but this could change once April comes so don’t rush into it would be my thoughts.

John

 

[BrundallNavy]

I would not buy any of these for the broads you will be very restricted as to where you can go.  You need an airdraft under 7ft to make the most of the navigation as some of the best bits are under low bridges. 

[PaulN]

Personally I would avoid outboard motors.

Petrol is not available on the broads.

Stern on moorings tend to be more difficult and there are many places where stern on is the norm.

Engine theft, although I'm not aware of this on the broads, it is fairly widespread elsewhere.

Diesel tanks are much safer.

[WherryNice]

Here are my thoughts....

..Personally, anything petrol powered over about 20ft is a no for me, too much hassle to refuel and the risks from carbon monoxide poisioning and vapour explosion are too great.(both can be mitigated of course but IMO not worth it due to the refuelling issue).

Outboards do get stolen on the Broads too.

Personally, Potter Heigham Bridge does not factor in to my boat choices, anything capable of regularly making the trip will be too compromised in other ways for me. Wroxham is worth consideration because the main free moorings are the wrong side of it and the trip to Coltishall is beautiful!

All boats, especially ones on the Broads, are a compromise of somekind and figuring out what combination works for you can take several boats to figure out(just ask certain members on here). 

If going for something tall I would make sure it has a flying bridge, that way you trade off poor bridge clearance for increased views over countryside etc.

Used prices for nearly new boats may be strong because they are ready to go "now" whereas a new one may take a while to be delivered etc.

I wouldn't choose either the Bounty or Alpha personally but both seem suited to the Broads generally and the idea of just getting out on the water to see what's what is probably a good one.

Anyhoo, just my musings, hope it helps

[Smoggy]

What you thought you wanted often turns out to be wrong once you use it in practise, unfortunately with boats it's usually a lengthy and costly exercise to change things and try again.

Forget PH bridge if you want space and comfort, half the 'traditional' boats that used to go under don't now, and don't bank on southern broads bridges always opening if you go flybridge as they are often not working.

[Bogart]

1 hour ago, Jbx5 said:

Hi  my opinion through experience I think you would get a bit fed up of carrying petrol cans around as there aren’t any petrol pumps any more around here. 
The Shetlands seem a good starter boat but they do seem to change hands quite regularly for some reason.

There is a Shetland 29i on again which gives better stern on access but it’s a bit over priced in my opinion. 

There isn’t much decent around at the moment I’m afraid but this could change once April comes so don’t rush into it would be my thoughts.

John

 

Have the the 29i and as it is an inboard one loses quite a proportion of sleeping accommodation and for a 2010 looks a tad pricey. Now looks to be sold, if we are talking the NYA one. Was on the market yesterday.

There is a Shetland Owners Association who seem pretty useless. Very little input from members. Though I did get the impression that liaising with the owner of Shetland can be a bit problematic. In his defence I met him a couple of weeks ago and seemed a good guy.

[Bogart]

1 hour ago, BrundallNavy said:

I would not buy any of these for the broads you will be very restricted as to where you can go.  You need an airdraft under 7ft to make the most of the navigation as some of the best bits are under low bridges. 

All the Vikings and Shetlands are well under 7ft it is the others that are causing me to be hesitant.

[Bogart]

1 hour ago, PaulN said:

Personally I would avoid outboard motors.

Petrol is not available on the broads.

Stern on moorings tend to be more difficult and there are many places where stern on is the norm.

Engine theft, although I'm not aware of this on the broads, it is fairly widespread elsewhere.

Diesel tanks are much safer.

When I started my search I was anti outboard and then some people said they have come a long way opposed to what they used to be. Then up popped the petrol availability, or lack of, problem. Have been given various bits of info such as fill it up then just bring 5 litres as a top up, sounds a bit of a faff. There is the stern on problem but some do have large 'bathing platforms' with cut outs that protect the outboard.

[Bogart]

36 minutes ago, WherryNice said:

Here are my thoughts....

..Personally, anything petrol powered over about 20ft is a no for me, too much hassle to refuel and the risks from carbon monoxide poisioning and vapour explosion are too great.(both can be mitigated of course but IMO not worth it due to the refuelling issue).

Outboards do get stolen on the Broads too.

Personally, Potter Heigham Bridge does not factor in to my boat choices, anything capable of regularly making the trip will be too compromised in other ways for me. Wroxham is worth consideration because the main free moorings are the wrong side of it and the trip to Coltishall is beautiful!

All boats, especially ones on the Broads, are a compromise of somekind and figuring out what combination works for you can take several boats to figure out(just ask certain members on here). 

If going for something tall I would make sure it has a flying bridge, that way you trade off poor bridge clearance for increased views over countryside etc.

Used prices for nearly new boats may be strong because they are ready to go "now" whereas a new one may take a while to be delivered etc.

I wouldn't choose either the Bounty or Alpha personally but both seem suited to the Broads generally and the idea of just getting out on the water to see what's what is probably a good one.

Anyhoo, just my musings, hope it helps

Definitely does help, this is the sort of info I need. Can I ask why you dismiss the Bounty and the Alpha?

[Bogart]

19 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

What you thought you wanted often turns out to be wrong once you use it in practise, unfortunately with boats it's usually a lengthy and costly exercise to change things and try again.

Forget PH bridge if you want space and comfort, half the 'traditional' boats that used to go under don't now, and don't bank on southern broads bridges always opening if you go flybridge as they are often not working.

Maybe I should forget a boat and get a Kayak, no seriously understand your comments.

A Viking or Shetland should get under everything except I believe Thorpe railway Bridges and the Old Potter Heigham

[Bogart]

I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to let me have your views.

[BrundallNavy]

19 minutes ago, Bogart said:

Maybe I should forget a boat and get a Kayak, no seriously understand your comments.

A Viking or Shetland should get under everything except I believe Thorpe railway Bridges and the Old Potter Heigham

Wayford and Beccles old bridge are well worth transiting Potter Heigham is a possible at 7ft when all the stars line up (around once a year ).  

[WherryNice]

27 minutes ago, Bogart said:

Definitely does help, this is the sort of info I need. Can I ask why you dismiss the Bounty and the Alpha?

The Bounty is trying to be too many things at once and for the money there are many other boats that I would consider before it. 

The Alpha is just the wrong style for me, I'm not keen on the sedan types, prefering either a centre cockpit, forward drive or flybridge. 

With a sedan you lose on bridge clearance but don't get a better view or proper open air cruising.

 

[PaulN]

Don't just view online, I would recommend speaking to the Brokers face to face and following up regularly. A lot of the good boats are sold to waiting clients before they even get on the websites.

What tends to happen is that an owner asks a broker for a valuation and then the broker awaits the go ahead by way of a commission. The broker meanwhile contacts his people waiting for that type of boat and advises they have a boat coming is shortly. A good one can be gone within a day or two of the current owner issuing instructions. If this works for you, don't tell anyone else online until you have secured it.

P.S. Alphacraft are great boats, we love our one. See "Alphacraft Owners Group" on Facebook.

[ExSurveyor]

Smaller Shetlands have a bit of an issue with water soaked foam in the under floor area, as I found out on my family four. If you catch it soon enough it can be sorted, if not it can be a new floor deck throughout.

These newer, smaller boats seem a bit flimsy compared to my old Broom Scorpio and Topliner.

They are also quite narrow. The outboard is vulnerable to damage, yes, I know this too and it has taken 3 months to get engine casing parts.  Being petrol isn't a problem for what I use it for, going up and down the river on a day out but for extended use it would be a nightmare.

I would look for a wider more traditional diesel broads type cruiser.

In the spring.

[Bogart]

38 minutes ago, PaulN said:

Don't just view online, I would recommend speaking to the Brokers face to face and following up regularly. A lot of the good boats are sold to waiting clients before they even get on the websites.

What tends to happen is that an owner asks a broker for a valuation and then the broker awaits the go ahead by way of a commission. The broker meanwhile contacts his people waiting for that type of boat and advises they have a boat coming is shortly. A good one can be gone within a day or two of the current owner issuing instructions. If this works for you, don't tell anyone else online until you have secured it.

P.S. Alphacraft are great boats, we love our one. See "Alphacraft Owners Group" on Facebook.

Oh I have been around lots of brokers big and small. Am on all their contact lists. My big problem is knowing if the price is reasonable as often nothing similar to compare with. Maybe we need a 'We buy any boat'

[CambridgeCabby]

It is in any brokers interested to price a boat at a price that they envisage a relatively quick sale , no money in filling their marinas with over priced boats that don’t sell .

That said , a decent surveyor will be able to give you a genuine / true value (in their opinion).

When we were searching we had to up our budget considerably to find what we wanted and ended up very happy we did so .

 

[rightsaidfred]

Can I make a suggestion given your questions, try hiring 2 or 3 different classes of boat if only for weekend breaks to get a feel for different classes, having hired many different boats when we bought ours we knew what we wanted and have only had the one boat for the last 17 or 18 years, it is a much cheaper and less stressful way in the long run.

Fred

[Bogart]

2 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

Smaller Shetlands have a bit of an issue with water soaked foam in the under floor area, as I found out on my family four. If you catch it soon enough it can be sorted, if not it can be a new floor deck throughout.

These newer, smaller boats seem a bit flimsy compared to my old Broom Scorpio and Topliner.

They are also quite narrow. The outboard is vulnerable to damage, yes, I know this too and it has taken 3 months to get engine casing parts.  Being petrol isn't a problem for what I use it for, going up and down the river on a day out but for extended use it would be a nightmare.

I would look for a wider more traditional diesel broads type cruiser.

In the spring.

Not intending long trips but 3 or 4 days out and about would be definitely be the norm.

I agree with what you say regarding the 'flimsy' construction. Having caravanned for years boats like the Shetland and Viking are like I say a caravan without wheels. Most of the cabinetry, does such a word exist?, is just melamine veneered chipboard whereas older boats at least had some solid wood in there.

[Bogart]

5 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Can I make a suggestion given your questions, try hiring 2 or 3 different classes of boat if only for weekend breaks to get a feel for different classes, having hired many different boats when we bought ours we knew what we wanted and have only had the one boat for the last 17 or 18 years, it is a much cheaper and less stressful way in the long run.

Fred

They may not be a bad idea if it does nothing else but eliminate some designs. Only problem I see with this is that the hire boat market does not necessarily provide what I am looking at/for.