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Boat Safety


grendel

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10 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I am not opposed to their installation but I am rather sceptical about their actual practical usefulness.  Any more so, than I think an accident might have been prevented if the stop button were painted red instead of black.  

My point about the red button was that red is a standard colour associated with danger and safety, and recognised as such generally. Fire alarm buttons also have a red surround. A large red button would be easier to locate in an emergency, as against having to stop and focus on a control panel to pick out one of a group of black buttons; the STOP button would be standing out. I mention this as a suggestion mainly for the hire industry as I suspect many private owners are likely to have far more familiarity with their own boats.

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I don’t like the lower bure at Great Yarmouth one bit the tides run so fast and them two low bridges cause more trouble especially now most of the hire boats have a high air draught.

there are options regarding the lower bure ie as somebody has said better singage at marina keys warning high cruisers to tie up there if the tides ebbing maybe use there as a overflow mooring when the tides ebbing. 

I respect the rivers especially where they run very quick I can’t help thinking hirers of boats need to know how fast some of the tides are on the broads. 

Another solution would be to rebuild those blinking low bridges ( never going to happen I know) 

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34 minutes ago, floydraser said:

My point about the red button was that red is a standard colour associated with danger and safety, and recognised as such generally. Fire alarm buttons also have a red surround. A large red button would be easier to locate in an emergency, as against having to stop and focus on a control panel to pick out one of a group of black buttons; the STOP button would be standing out. I mention this as a suggestion mainly for the hire industry as I suspect many private owners are likely to have far more familiarity with their own boats.

Sorry, I didn't notice you had said that in your post - I was actually thinking of the report, where it was mentioned as a suggestion.

 

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It is all very well to talk of how strong the current is in Yarmouth but it is fine if you time it right!

Boatyards have always told their hirers (and I am sure still do) when going south, to pass the yacht station about a half hour after slack water low. This means you have generous clearance under bridges and also have the start of the flood against you, so you can easily moor straight in at the yacht station against a mild current and without any need to turn round.  You can also stop easily if something happens to another boat in front of you.

This means if you pass Acle Bridge at the time given for low water in the yacht station, you will time it right.  It is as easy as that.

All you then need to do is manage to persuade people to actually listen to such advice, which is available wherever you look for it.

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4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Boatyards have always told their hirers (and I am sure still do) when going south, to pass the yacht station about a half hour after slack water low. This means you have generous clearance under bridges and also have the start of the flood against you, so you can easily moor straight in at the yacht station against a mild current and without any need to turn round.  You can also stop easily if something happens to another boat in front of you.

However these days the yacht station does occasionally give out the advice to arrive at low water, not slack water for certain boats requiring extra clearance, does that make these boats not particularly well suited for hire on The Broads?

Perhaps one of the mistakes was when they stopped designing boats that at least had some chance of passing through Wroxham and Potter bridges.

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11 minutes ago, Roy said:

I don’t like the lower bure at Great Yarmouth one bit the tides run so fast and them two low bridges cause more trouble especially now most of the hire boats have a high air draught.

there are options regarding the lower bure ie as somebody has said better singage at marina keys warning high cruisers to tie up there if the tides ebbing maybe use there as a overflow mooring when the tides ebbing. 

I respect the rivers especially where they run very quick I can’t help thinking hirers of boats need to know how fast some of the tides are on the broads. 

Another solution would be to rebuild those blinking low bridges ( never going to happen I know) 

Marina Keys was by far the better mooring, although not really practical for those on foot to visit Gt. Yarmouth. It is now very badly silted and is (or was) the site of an ambitious residential and riverside development. The Bure at Great Yarmouth is dangerous and unfortunately most so at the Yacht Station and bridges. This danger should be properly explained in brochures, not hidden away in the Skippers Manuel. It needs to be explained before the booking is taken that there are areas that can be dangerous and need to be treated with care. It's no use after selling your holiday with leafy pictures of Salhouse to then tell the unsuspecting hirer, "Oh and bye the way..." Also would it be so difficult to make it a condition of hire that life jackets are to be worn? At least in this area when mooring or passing through.

Fred

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8 hours ago, trambo said:

Marina Keys was by far the better mooring, although not really practical for those on foot to visit Gt. Yarmouth. 

Indeed it is, and with some proper pontoons etc it would surely be even safer. 

I don’t know many experienced boaters who would want to moor at GYYS (for a variety of reasons).

We’ve all said time and again how dangerous that mooring is and I doubt many of us would want to try and turn round there.

Mostly the yacht station seems to be visited by less experienced crews and infrequent visitors who want a bit of activity in their week, so why is it situated in the most dangerous part of the whole system? It just doesn’t make any logical sense.

As for the bridges, yes let’s lose that rusting pile of junk (or lift it out of the way) and consider raising the other bridge. At least people could have the option of going out onto Breydon and having lots of space to turn (with big signs on the narrow section saying don’t turn in the river).

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I have been sitting here, thinking about how I normally give a trial run and how I train personnel to do trial runs.  Training the staff is every bit as important as training the customers!

Apart from the boat handling part, the description of the dual control Morse system takes longer to describe than any other part of the boat's equipment.  I have just talked myself through the usual "spiel" that I go through with first time novice customers and timed it.

It takes 7 minutes.  Plus the time taken for all the questions they ask.

Not much time left then, out of a short handover.

A full trial run to novices takes a minimum of 45 minutes.  If you have to repeat some of the handling manoeuvres, it will usually take about one and a half hours.  So boatyards have to assess the experience of their regular customers, who don't need the full instruction, particularly the boat handling part.  This has to be done, or there just wouldn't be enough time in a turnround afternoon. 

As more and more Broads hire boats have top decks with dual controls, is there something to be learned from this?

 

Edited by grendel
reference to report removed, replaced with short
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Dual controls are useful for  many reasons. Sweetkingfisher  was dual control. It does take some thinking. Many times I've  seen people  trying to switch control often under way.Never a good idea,best to do so moored up switch control  then move off.Indeed we we're hit moored at Beccles, when a hire boat came into moor.It  started  to rain,they tried  to switch.Lost control  of the boat hit us and the boat next to us. Raising bridges at GY,not sure that's  possible. Lots of traffic goes over there.A few weeks back the fire of the Pub on the bridge caused  tail backs for almost a week.

Also Great Yarmouth  is under going improvements,so Important  to attract tourists. 

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Would it be possible or practicle to train up a team of handover instructors? 

In the same way cleaners are hired for changeover days maybe living around rivers are enough retired and experienced people who could supplement their income and enjoy being involved.

On the face of it I realise it doesn't sound very practicle but even though it will increase costs a little it could be made to work and it could prove popular with hirers.

It would increase the time available for handover instruction and the possible decrease in accident damage and increase in reputation would mitigate some of the cost.

I should add this is just "thinking out loud" I know nothing about running a boat yard or business (obviously 🙂)

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3 minutes ago, Ray said:

Would it be possible or practicle to train up a team of handover instructors? 

In the same way cleaners are hired for changeover days maybe living around rivers are enough retired and experienced people who could supplement their income and enjoy being involved.

On the face of it I realise it doesn't sound very practicle but even though it will increase costs a little it could be made to work and it could prove popular with hirers.

It would increase the time available for handover instruction and the possible decrease in accident damage and increase in reputation would mitigate some of the cost.

I can see where you are "coming from"!

First thing is, that a large proportion of trial run instructors on yards already, are weekend "casuals".  All the same, they are trained by the yard and employed by them.  I am sure the yards would much prefer it that way.

I think the danger here is that if you employ "journeymen" retired instructors to help out (like me, perhaps) they become a bit of a law unto themselves and act more like character tour guides (think Beefeaters) than serious instructors.

There is also the big question of responsibility.  In the event of an accident, was it the yard who did a bad job, or the "Beefeater"?

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I wouldn't call myself an expert in boat handling, but have hired most types of broads designs. When transiting Yarmouth I make sure I know where everyone is and I can see them. Life jackets are a must and absolutely no children out on deck. I witnessed a nasty accident at Yarmouth as a teenager, back in the day when you could moor between the bridge's. We had broken down and were waiting for the guys from Martham to attend. A boat came towards the bridge the crew panicking shouting at eachother, for some reason they hadn't taken the canopy down they collided with the bridge taking out the front windscreen an oldest gentleman went into the water. The guys from the yard jumped straight into our dinghy and managed to get to him. Thet dragged him out on the other side of the river. A very upsetting thing to witness as a youngster. Lesson learned for me and my family, we always treat passage through Yarmouth very seriously. Yarmouth yacht station is the most uninviting place on the broads and the quicker I can get through it the better. That said back when our children were younger I didn't mind stopping at marina Quays, it had a little park the children could play in a bar for a drink and we'd walk up to the dog track if the racing was on. Our eldest daughter seemed to have a knack for picking a winner, shame she didn't use the same method when picking a husband lol...😉

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I’ve tried to keep out of this discussion, mainly because it’s quite contentious and with (as far as I can see) no easy answers.  Anything that increases staffing levels at a boatyard, will increase their costs and will reflect in hire charges.  Folk don’t generally do something for nothing and committing to work for several hours every weekend for free, is a big ask.

I’ve been reading some of the comments on the FB pages regarding this incident, with many calling for compulsory training for skippers of all motorised craft prior to taking control of a boat (hirers and owners alike).  Yet another ill thought out idea, that would likely kill the day boat industry at a stroke and cause lasting damage to cruiser hire.  Who can realistically imagine someone attending a day course, at a potential cost of say £250, before being able to take a day boat on the rivers for a couple of hours?

As has been mentioned, cruiser design may be an issue.  Much was written about the new offering from NBD.  Great visibility from the upper helm, but what appears to be appalling visibility from the internal helm and no visibility of the crew aft when stern mooring.

What I can foresee from this report, is some suit with little or no knowledge of the industry, making a knee jerk reaction and implementing some ill conceived plan to make boats safer, which will have a long term, damaging effect on boating.  Nothing we do is without risk, crossing the road, riding a bike, getting in a car, drilling a hole for some diy - all carry an element of risk.  I’ve ridden a motorcycle off and on for forty years.  There’s clearly a risk to that, but a few years ago some clown came up with an idea to have ‘seat belts’ attached to prevent the rider from coming off in the event of an accident.  Any motorcyclist will tell you what a ridiculous idea that is!

I think all of us realise, if we’re honest, that there’s always the scope to learn.  No one will get enough knowledge, even with extended training, to cope with every situation.  I’m happy to admit that I can still make a cock up sometimes, maybe misjudging the effect of the wind or tide.  What’s needed here is a sense of realism.  The accidents that occurred a couple of years ago were tragic, but folk die on holiday in the sea every year.  You cannot mitigate against all eventualities.  Fortunately, there are few fatalities on The Broads each year, even in periods like last year when it was extremely busy for a prolonged season.

Are we not making more of this than is necessary?  We need to be careful what we wish for, or Big Brother will intervene and make changes that are detrimental for all of us.

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1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

A full trial run to novices takes a minimum of 45 minutes.  If you have to repeat some of the handling manoeuvres, it will usually take about one and a half hours.  So boatyards have to assess the experience of their regular customers, who don't need the full instruction, particularly the boat handling part.  This has to be done, or there just wouldn't be enough time in a turnround afternoon. 

As more and more Broads hire boats have top decks with dual controls, is there something to be learned from this?

I think you are starting to lean towards a conclusion that many of us have been suggesting for some time, but have been berated for. I know your instinct is to protect the hire yards as it's an industry you have worked in and grown up in, but times do change. A Broads hire yard of today has many more dual steer, larger boats with more onboard systems, bow and maybe stern thrusters etc, than it did 20 years ago. The fuse panels on some of the latest hire boats looks like something from the Starship Enterprise. Even explaining what to turn on to boil a kettle or cook a meal is longer as simple as there's the gas tap and lighter.

A genuine question based upon your post above, how many boats can a single mechanic turn around in a day?

Many of us have said that the maths just doesn't add up for the amount of boats some yards send out in a day, if they are giving the kind of handover you suggest could be needed.

As a privateer I don't rush from mooring to mooring and am happy to chat to others at a mooring. It is through this first hand experience of talking to hirers that you get a sense of often how uneasy they feel at being sent out with what they realise once under way is not enough tuition.

Two weeks ago I was out on the boat on the North side for a week. We saw two hire boats damaged due to poor handling. We personally helped two boats in tricky situations and gave them some useful tuition. Then shortly after coming through Yarmouth on the Saturday within a few hours 2 boats had gone aground on the mud on Breydon. We spoke with a few mooring neighbours who were genuinely surprised it is not like driving a car. I've already recounted elsewhere that after helping one boat out they offered to buy my friend a beer as we walked into the pub. That conversation ended with them saying that's what the CDW is for.

Shorter breaks, a desire to get under way quickly, a misapprehension of just how easy they are to drive, too much alcohol and a desire by boat yards not to over state the risks for fear of putting some off is becoming the perfect storm in many respects, and that word also has a lot to do with it to. Actually respect and entitlement. There are too many entitled people who have absolutely no respect for other people or their property.

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Meantime, that post is something most owners can relate to and have commented on, fortunately most of us are more than happy to help others, sadly I think many of us have met hirers who have been put of for life because of poor and lack of tuition in basic boat handling in adverse conditions or when approaching or leaving a mooring.

Fred

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6 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Two weeks ago I was out on the boat on the North side for a week. We saw two hire boats damaged due to poor handling. We personally helped two boats in tricky situations and gave them some useful tuition. Then shortly after coming through Yarmouth on the Saturday within a few hours 2 boats had gone aground on the mud on Breydon. We spoke with a few mooring neighbours who were genuinely surprised it is not like driving a car. I've already recounted elsewhere that after helping one boat out they offered to buy my friend a beer as we walked into the pub. That conversation ended with them saying that's what the CDW is for.

In fairness, this paragraph could have been written about the 50s and 60s just as easily (if not more so) as it can about 2 weeks ago.

Let me make my personal position abundantly clear.  I will defend the boatyards against unfair and untrue allegations made by those who do not understand the realities and base their "judgement" on little more than what they have heard in the pub.  I do have the courtesy however, to give detailed and accurate replies to such allegations for the benefit of the forum as a whole.  I am also very well aware, from bitter personal experience, of how bad publicity and indeed, gratuitous muck-raking, can damage the business and therefore, the Broads navigation itself.  I see it as biting the hand that feeds you.

That said, and as you can see at the moment, I am well prepared to criticise the yards when I see a need to do so.

Yes, the trial run is absolutely vital to the safe operation.  I have never said otherwise.  Yes, I think that some modern designs are potentially dangerous, in-appropriate for inland waterways cruising and sometimes even just plain silly.  I have also said this before and long before this latest accident happened.  It is nothing new though!  I remember back in the 60s when my mother first saw one of Eastick's River Ant class boats out on the river.  She called it a "dipsomaniac's dream"!

One thing I can promise you - when I do criticise the business, it is based on fact and long experience, rather than bank-side supposition.

By the way these comments are NOT aimed at you personally.

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2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

In fairness, this paragraph could have been written about the 50s and 60s just as easily (if not more so) as it can about 2 weeks ago.

Part of the reason for recounting that week is because most of my weeks in the past have been like that as well. It is part of boating and I'm always happy to help others where I can. I guess why I highlighted the most recent week is because due to recent incidents there was a tightening up of procedures last year, including mandatory handling tuition for all hirers regardless of experience and upon listening to John Packmans recent TV interviews you would imagine things to be a whole lot better now, or at least some improvement. I personally didn't notice any change in the end behaviour or handling skills.

Something that occurred to me as I wrote the above is that I wonder if the mandatory hand over tuition might actually be leading to less tuition for those that need it most. Unless the number of staff have been increased, then extra tuition with those people who may not normally have had it, must lead to less time spent elsewhere!

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13 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Something that occurred to me as I wrote the above is that I wonder if the mandatory hand over tuition might actually be leading to less tuition for those that need it most. Unless the number of staff have been increased, then extra tuition with those people who may not normally have had it, must lead to less time spent elsewhere!

Absolutely.

Again, said before, but the trial run is a personal, hands-on interaction between the instructor and the customer.  It cannot just be read out off a check sheet with boxes to tick.

This is what I meant by an overload of documentation, which is the usual result of official safety reviews.  In my personal opinion, the box ticking check list is just an anti-litigation cop-out.  It just means "don't blame us, because you signed to say you were happy to take over the boat".

Also, I am afraid that, no matter how many boxes are ticked, you just cannot teach anyone anything unless they themselves are willing to LISTEN.

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59 minutes ago, Meantime said:

A genuine question based upon your post above, how many boats can a single mechanic turn around in a day?

Sorry, I didn't answer the question.

I had best speak for our own operation in France, as all companies' policies are perhaps not the same.  On our bases I tried to have it so that each instructor did no more than 4 or 5 in an afternoon. Trouble is, we were doing them in three main languages (French English and German) so I am afraid we were sometimes doing 7 or more each.

It takes an awful lot longer now as boats are so much more sophisticated.  When I first ran a big base in France in 1983, we were churning them out at 10 trial runs per man, on a Saturday!

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We need to keep some kind of context here. Accident happen and they will continue to happen. Fatal Accidents although happen are very far and few between thankfully. Accidents are exactly that an accident, no one intended it to happen  it's not necessarily a design fault. 9 times out of 10 human error is to blame. Ever since I can remember boats have bumped and banged into each other it just happens. What has changed are the boats far bigger then ever before. Yes the handover process needs improvement of course it does, how ?? I wouldn't have a clue tbh. Another thing not mentioned here on this thread and I'm not suggesting it had anything to do with this incident. Alcohol and drugs, I'm not going to mention any names but not so long ago we refused to take over a boat because it stunk of weed. I have a few beers while at the helm I only drink beer I raerly touch spirits or wine. But like most of us I've seen some right old parties going on, half of me thinks good on yeah enjoy, the other half I guess the father and grandad side of me thinks, that's gonna end in tears. I never judge as long as there not spoiling my enjoyment, enjoy. How do you design for that ?? How will an hour long handover prevent that ?? 

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2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

but a few years ago some clown came up with an idea to have ‘seat belts’ attached to prevent the rider from coming off in the event of an accident.  Any motorcyclist will tell you what a ridiculous idea that is!

I can categorically state that I would not be here if I had remained attached to my motorbike when I was involved in an accident, I had seen all the safety videos, and they impressed upon me that if you went over the front of the bike, you were likely to impact head first, i had always had an action in mind that if I seemed to be going over the front I would push off and gain height.

I can categorically say that in a motorbike accident you dont have time to think more than oh.... but the action of pushing off must have been there as I managed to clear the van i hit, and then rolled down the white line between two rows of traffic. if i had been attached to the bike....... 

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22 minutes ago, andyg said:

How will an hour long handover prevent that

I must admit, I would regularly sign the declaration to say I could handle the boat and didn't need a trial run, I was content with a walk through and around the vessel to find out where all the "bits" where located

I found the trial run a waste of time as it usually meant slow manoeuvres in a marina, or onto a river with little tidal changes or current and back to drop off the employee (normally at Stalham)

I really don't know what you can do to change this as each boatyard is located in different places and none can replicate the issues you would have at the various locations around the broads

I really can't see trial runs being of much benefit unless there are a set number of manoeuvres that must be completed to confirm a level of competence which all the hire yards adhere to

 

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It would seem from the general consensus of opinion that most if not all those who have commented on this subject would favour a revisit to the whole issue of the handover or so called trial run.  Where opinion does differ is which or what new approach should be considered.

Some 50 years ago nearly any person who worked on the boat yard could be asked “Would you take Mr A N Other down river for a few minutes and show him the ropes” and in this respect that is exactly what happened. The person who carried out the trial run would have had no formal training whatsoever. In fact his training or knowledge was obtained by that age old adage of “see one, do one, teach one.” Thus it was no surprise that each and every employee on the yard would have his own particular take or unique way of imparting his skill and knowledge of boating. He was neither taught how to teach, or establish priorities as part of the process. Every trial run would be different, it was the same on every boat yard and trial runs were conducted differently on each individual boat yards. Throughout Broadland, North and South everybody did it differently.

I have not had a trial run for many years, more years than I like to remember, but my belief is that very little has changed. There is no common format to the trial run unlike learning to fly a private aeroplane or motor car. It is pot luck what you get and I sometimes watch people arriving at a mooring, leaving a mooring and come to the simple conclusion that they have not been shown how to do it. Next time you are at Ranworth, Womack, Reedham wherever stand on the bank and watch. It is NOT all about speed, they have been told to do it slowly. Watch carefully, at some time during the manoeuvre from a virtually stationery position they will, from the throttle put an enormous amount of ENERGY into the boat in a relatively confined situation. They have little understanding of which way, direction, the boat is going and which way their stern is going. That is the important bit. The boat itself is not speeding, the stern certainly is, it is scything round in an alarming manner, out of control containing a huge amount of kinetic energy. It is that energy which is absorbed, fragmented, and dispersed into your boat causing huge amounts of damage.

There must be a clear understanding between all parties of a defined objective of the trial run. The health and safety of people must have precedence over all other matters, followed by the protection and respect of people’s property. This can only be achieved by a delegated authority establishing criteria’s and standards of behaviour which is identifiable and recognised by all. Trial Run drivers and boat owners, both private and hires would have to conform to this standard. Thus, irrespective of which hire fleet you leave from you will have had a basic tuition covering identical and relevant practice. The boatyard would be able to add to this standard if they should wish.

This will only be achieved by having trial run drivers who have a recognised accreditation with regard to their skills and ability to impart that knowledge.

There are other factors which must be taken into consideration.

There are those who argue, suggest, that we should adopt a test of competence and certification for those who conform and pass. They would then be granted privileges to cruise our rivers. I think that this is fundamentally wrong and unworkable.

That which I believe should be given consideration is for hirers to have a log book of experience. Dated and signed by a dedicated and recognised trial run driver.

The very first question the trial run instructor will ask is have you been before. That will determine your progress through the system and the instructor’s course of action. If you answer that you have been several times you will be asked if you really need a trail run. There will be demonstrated actual proof to the instructor that there is a history, an audit trail of experience. In this respect if you reply positively that you feel confident then your “log book” would be signed and stamped and you would then be fast tracked through the system and allowed on your way.

No system is foolproof, and in its initial stages open to abuse by a minority. There are those who arrive on the boatyard with years of experience who can legitimately claim “Grandfather Rights” and by their demeanour, their approach and general knowledge would easily be able to convince a seasoned instructor of their sincerity and honesty and be granted that privilege in the first stages of the scheme of being considered capable of having to have an actual river instruction to be considered unnecessary.

Those who choose to convince an instructor of ability, experience, knowledge, that does not exist can subsequently in the event of an incident can expect serious consequences. Heavy fines, court fees and reimbursement to those who have been financially disadvantaged by their actions.

All craft should carry an incident report form to be completed and sent to a recognised authority where a situation exits where one or both parties involved consider it necessary.

This would serve the purpose of recording the frequency of such incidents and an audit trail of events, circumstances, injuries and damaged caused.

This in effect would place greater emphasis on accountability and disciplines that exist on our waterways. For those who leave an incident refusing to exchange details when requested could expect to be pursued with a possible fine or other measures taken. It would also enable a version of events to be challenged. Thus there would exist accountability and consequences for the minority who treat behaviour and conduct with such disregard. 

In conclusion the above is not a panacea of all ills but an attempt to achieve some order in a system which has evolved over many year, seen many changes, many values eroded including those of common sense, discipline, communication and consideration.

 

 

 

  

 

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27 minutes ago, Wussername said:

That which I believe should be given consideration is for hirers to have a log book of experience. Dated and signed by a dedicated and recognised trial run driver.

Not a bad idea Wussername. If you want to go with the experience=less instruction needed concept, then the easiest way would be to have an opt-in online database where  a customer's experience levels would be gleaned from their record of previous holidays booked and taken. Their record would be updated automatically from the booking's inception. The yard brings up the record in advance and decides what level of instruction (if any) needs allocating. Perhaps The Broads Authority would be the keepers of the database - out of reach of commercial interests.

It would have to be an opt-in record for data protection, but a little note against the online tick-box would point out that a record of past experience would assist them in transiting the check-in procedures faster. I worry about use of the database for marketing, but the boatyard already has their booking and is therefore freely allowed to market to the customer anyway. The customer's "membership" number is passed to the boatyard with the reservation, and their record is displayable. To stop marketing to random members, the record would not show any contact details. 

There would a cost to set up the database, and to have the likes of Hoseasons, Richardsons, Herbert Woods etc report into it (automatically), but the savings would be made in terms of the advance warning of what level of staff you would need waiting to train people on turn around days. 

Just an idea.

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I won't quote Wussernames post as it will take up too much room but in response I will tell of the handover experience that was impressed with.

Small Southern yard, a short break booked to explore darrn sarrrf only, late season. We, my parents and I, all boat owners of quite some experience, various boats and various engine configurations over the years but we fancied a change, hence the hire.

 We arrive and, when asked, announce our experience to the trial run chap(owner of the yard). He then goes through the boat and it's particulars skimming the more basic stuff but clearly observing our reactions to what he is saying(we pay attention to the bits we need, canopy opening, gas locker location etc etc). There was also lots of relevant Southern info given, moorings/tides etc etc.

Then we go up the river for a few minutes under observation rather than instruction and that's it job done.

We were happy to recieve an accelerated but appropriate trial/handover, the owner was comfortable enough with us to take his boat, WE felt that we had demonstrated our competence and that HE was qualified to see it.

My other hand over was given by someone who I felt wouldn't really have known the difference but gleefully took us at our word when he asked if we had been before....

"have you been before?".

..."yes".

.."oh good, I don't need to take you out then!"

No further questions asked and no river trial.

Didn't matter to us but I felt he would've taken anyone at their word which is not ideal.

For the record I would happily go on any trial run that a yard wanted me to, it's their boat, their rules IMO.

 

 

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