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Won't be coming back to the broads.


Guest smokesmate

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We were all young once, but that is no excuse. The behaviour is unacceptable and if they do not realise then they should be told. That is what standards and laws are all about. We all agree it is the minority which means that the majority act reasonably.

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I must say that the OP's reaction does seem a little "knee jerk" (no offense)

Sure, groups of rowdy people can disturb a night's sleep and I certainly appreciate how it can put a real downer on things.

However, you have to remember a few things:

1) It was not the Norfolk Broads that was wrong, it was a few people. You will get people pretty-much anywhere else too and some might not be "compatible".

2) Your holiday was during the main season and you really must expect that there will be other people around you, some of whom may be objectionable to you.

3) You may have been able to do something about it - this does sound like a case of "disturbing the peace"

4) There are plenty of places that are single morring spots along the rivers that are quiet and isolated.

It's a real shame that it happened, but with all things considered, it's not THE BROADS' fault and it remains a truly spectacular place to have a holiday. Perhaps you might consider taking a break in November, December or even January and February. If you want peace and quiet, try waking up to snow-covered fields with no human footprints as far as the eye can see.

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Absolutely agree with Andy it’s not places, it’s people that annoy, just to reinforce that we had some oik persistently entering the first class carriage on the Liverpool street to Norwich train when we came to the NBN party at Coldham, despite being removed by the conductor he kept coming back and loudly swearing simply for effect and to annoy, he was completely off his face and stank of alcohol when he boarded at 12:00 at Manningtree :roll: , fortunately old bill were waiting for him at Norwich. Nowhere is free from this behaviour as I said in an earlier post.

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we had some oik persistently entering the first class carriage on the Liverpool street to Norwich train when we came to the NBN party at Coldham, ....

I always use the second class carriages .... definitely a better class of traveller than you find in the first, full of toffs and hoity toity blue bloods. :naughty:

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I also must agree, Andy had made some extremely good points. It isn’t a Broads thing, you will get bad behaviour anywhere as David has said - but I do know from experience that the occurrence of bad behaviour is significantly less than say where I live here in darkest Yorks.

Again as Andy has suggested – we have been out on the Broads in December and February for the last few years now. December is brilliant, you are very lucky to see another boat all day, hire or private. February there are a few about but not in any significant numbers. If you are prepared to sacrifice a bit of sun it really is an incredible time to be out.

In summer we tend to go in May or early June to avoid the fishing season and this time is usually very peaceful (not that I’m jumping to any conclusions of course). :naughty: And again to return to Andy’s post – you are bound to get more chance of problems in peak season when there are most people around.

I have been holidaying on the Broads for over 35 years and have never had any significant problems with bad behaviour. Maybe I have been lucky but it certainly won’t put me off visiting, which is to me, the ultimate holiday destination.

cheersbar

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL
I must say that the OP's reaction does seem a little "knee jerk" (no offense)

Sure, groups of rowdy people can disturb a night's sleep and I certainly appreciate how it can put a real downer on things.

However, you have to remember a few things:

1) It was not the Norfolk Broads that was wrong, it was a few people. You will get people pretty-much anywhere else too and some might not be "compatible".

2) Your holiday was during the main season and you really must expect that there will be other people around you, some of whom may be objectionable to you.

3) You may have been able to do something about it - this does sound like a case of "disturbing the peace"

4) There are plenty of places that are single morring spots along the rivers that are quiet and isolated.

It's a real shame that it happened, but with all things considered, it's not THE BROADS' fault and it remains a truly spectacular place to have a holiday. Perhaps you might consider taking a break in November, December or even January and February. If you want peace and quiet, try waking up to snow-covered fields with no human footprints as far as the eye can see.

Okay, while i will agree about no 3)- Disturbing the peace, what would the outcome be if you reported them to the police?. The answer wood be along the lines of "there`s nothing we can do, as it`s dealt with by the local authority", just like if you have a complaint about noisey neighbours at home. So what happens if you intervene yourself?. How many times have we heard recently (and getting more common by the month) about people that have asked rowdy people to keep the noise down, only to be stabbed, and in some cases, lose their lives?. I know this may sound a bit extrememe, but it DOES happen.

2)- The peak season?, is ONLY the peak season due to school holidays, which means the Broads will have more young families than usual because they don`t want to take their kids out of school. It`s not really to do with warmer , and longer hours, as May?June have longer daylight hours.

4)- Not everybody wants to moor in out of the way places. Everybody needs to provision a boat throughout the week, and it seems a lot of people want to go to the pub for a meal and a drink or two, which you can`t do if you`re moored somewhere like St Bennetts abbey on the Bure, or North cove staithe on the Waveney (being just 2 examples).

The last comment about taking a holiday in the winter months is NOT an option for many people due to many reasons such as health, emploment and many other reasons, not least being the fact that it`s too damn cold for some, as well as the fact that at least 90% of the yards do NOT hire in winter months.

So Andy, what would YOU as a fleet owner expect me, or someone like me, to do if you hired your 44ft bathtub to an all male party who were continuously causing "a breach of the peace" everywhere they went or stopped?. Phone the police who really don`t want to know, or intervene and possibly risk being bodily harmed or worse?.

No, the simplest way to all but eradicate this sort of behaviour is to hold the fleets that hire their boats to these groups responsible for their actions, and possibly levy a fine and compensation for damage they may cause, then they may show a bit more consideration to just exactly who they are hiring to. Or of course, another way would be to have a ban on all male /female crews UNLESS they are of previous good charachter, and already known to the yards.

Having said that, i DO agree with you on no1) though.

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[quote=". Or of course, another way would be to have a ban on all male /female crews UNLESS they are of previous good charachter, and already known to the yards.

.

How would you get the chance to find out if did not let them come in the first place :?

perhaps we could all only allow hirers to come if they have been recommended by responbsible previous hirers or people over a cirtain age who have lived in the area for a few years or own a boat of their own? :yawn:

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It's sad when Broads holiday boat hirers do so with the soul intention of having a nice time ..... Shame on them.

To those who don't want to share in their frivolities be thankfull that, unlike hirers of statics accommodation, you can move on.

Perhaps a friendly chat with them could result in being for-warned re: itinery .... you can then avoid future confrontations.

Alternatively we could ban everything and everybody that a small selection of people find offensive ..... would you want to live in that world?

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL

How would you get the chance to find out if did not let them come in the first place :?

perhaps we could all only allow hirers to come if they have been recommended by responbsible previous hirers or people over a cirtain age who have lived in the area for a few years or own a boat of their own? :yawn:

I know you may find this sort of reasoning unfavourable Clive, but let`s look at the evidence?. Since fleets that used to have restrictions on all male/female parties have either pulled out of the hire industry or bowed to "political correctness", this sort of behaviour IS (despite what some on here will say) getting all too common, and there have been several posts on this forum at different times of the year this season regarding this yobbish behaviour.

It certainly seems to be the fact that the vast majority of hirers are well behaved and cause no problems whatsoever to others, so why do we have to put up with the minority just to appease the politically correct gestapo?, and i`m not just talking about boating on the broads either.

So Clive, if the BA, and the local authorities brought in a new rule stating that your company would be liable for a hefty fine and compensation if you were to hire a boat to a large all male/female crew, who then went on to cause disturbance, offence or even damage throughout their holiday, what would your policy be regarding these type of groups, would you still hire to them?

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"So Clive, if the BA, and the local authorities brought in a new rule stating that your company would be liable for a hefty fine and compensation if you were to hire a boat to a large all male/female crew, who then went on to cause disturbance, offence or even damage throughout their holiday, what would your policy be regarding these type of groups, would you still hire to them?"

Now that's just the sort of thing that rattles my cage! :roll: Why oh why should a company be held responsible for the behavior of adults?

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Norfolk relies on tourism for it economy, without it all whome live in the county would be affected. The broads is a tourist attraction and it takes money to keep the rivers and broads navicable, they are for all to enjoy and must be maintained. The hire fleets spend alot of money to keep those boats on the water, money that goes to the BA, money that goes to the hundreds of locals that are employed thanks to this attraction and boat building undustry that has developed around it. There are many people who are posting that they are sad that the broads pubs are closing, its the tourists money who keep them going.

Its sad that this person had a bad time, but in general roudy boaters can be avoided, its in all our best interests if you want to use the water ways or work in the industry for the hire fleets to hire out as many boats as possible, without the income that comes from hire fleet what would happen? do you think the Condems will spend tax payer money to subsidise the broads or would all private boaters be happy to pay double or tripple the costs of their river toll?

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This is not the fault of the hire company's,it is a society problem,you will get noisy and annoying groups of people whatever holiday you book wether it be boating,seaside,hotel,coach trips and even caravan holidays.

These people usually behave, but the root of the problem is ,yes,too much consumption of alcholol,and when they are ,or have been drinking, these people become the hooligan element.

Cheap booze is readily available today in supermarkets etc so it is easy to stock up and drink all day long,hence this is the problem.

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so why do we have to put up with the minority just to appease the politically correct gestapo?, and i`m not just talking about boating on the broads either.

You think the gestapo were politically correct? Blimey, I wouldn't want to live in your world!! :o

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This is not the fault of the hire company's,it is a society problem,you will get noisy and annoying groups of people whatever holiday you book wether it be boating,seaside,hotel,coach trips and even caravan holidays.

These people usually behave, but the root of the problem is ,yes,too much consumption of alcholol,and when they are ,or have been drinking, these people become the hooligan element.

Cheap booze is readily available today in supermarkets etc so it is easy to stock up and drink all day long,hence this is the problem.

Couldn’t agree more, alcohol or rather an excess of it is at the root of many problems going back not decades but hundreds of years. Be it on the broads, in town centres, holiday resorts in UK and abroad or as in my recent example, on trains it makes no difference. Somebody has pointed out the great thing about a broads boating holiday is that if you do encounter bad behaviour at least you can move, not that you should have to and perhaps not until the next morning but at least you can so that puts a boating holiday at an advantage to almost all the others.

I have spent a lot of hours on the broads and have seen less bad behaviour there than generally, I wonder if because it is generally speaking a tranquil place that if and when the serenity is broken then it is such an anathema it has a greater impact than it perhaps would elsewhere.

Alcohol, along with other recreational drugs suppresses inhibition and self awareness, and inhibition and self awareness are among the senses that help us conform to what society in general sees as acceptable behaviour.

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I can't believe that I've read some of this.

Hold the hire boat companies responsible for their customer's behaviour? Why?

Is a shop responsible for it's customers making a nuisence of themselves? What about an airline with a noisy passenger? How about London Transport with a bunch or rowdy school children? How about Avis Rentacar with a moron behind the wheel who insigates a road rage incident? Try this one, a heckler at the theatre, would the London Palladium be responsible? Or a holiday cottage company (or challet provider) with a noisy customer disturbing the neighbours? Would they be responsible for them?

Here's an idea. What about people taking some responsibility for their own actions? I know it's radical, but I can't think of anything more appropraite.

Suggesting that the provider of the service be responsible for behaviour that they have no control over is remarkable. Why should they be, or better still, how can they be?

Sure, if we have complaints, we would attempt to contact the party involved and draw their attention to the "issues" and we have done this before. But to be responsible?

As for the police taking no notice, that's certainly not my experience of the Norfolk Constabulary.

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I can't believe that I've read some of this.

Hold the hire boat companies responsible for their customer's behaviour? Why?

Is a shop responsible for it's customers making a nuisence of themselves? What about an airline with a noisy passenger? How about London Transport with a bunch or rowdy school children? How about Avis Rentacar with a moron behind the wheel who insigates a road rage incident? Try this one, a heckler at the theatre, would the London Palladium be responsible? Or a holiday cottage company (or challet provider) with a noisy customer disturbing the neighbours? Would they be responsible for them?

Here's an idea. What about people taking some responsibility for their own actions? I know it's radical, but I can't think of anything more appropraite.

Suggesting that the provider of the service be responsible for behaviour that they have no control over is remarkable. Why should they be, or better still, how can they be?

Sure, if we have complaints, we would attempt to contact the party involved and draw their attention to the "issues" and we have done this before. But to be responsible?

As for the police taking no notice, that's certainly not my experience of the Norfolk Constabulary.

Spot on well put. cheersbar

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Is a shop responsible for it's customers making a nuisance of themselves?

What about an airline with a noisy passenger?

How about London Transport with a bunch or rowdy school children?

How about Avis Rentacar with a moron behind the wheel who instigates a road rage incident?

Try this one, a heckler at the theater, would the London Palladium be responsible?

Or a holiday cottage company (or chalet provider) with a noisy customer disturbing the neighbors?

Would they be responsible for them?

A tricky one this, the apportionment of blame depends on other factors connected with the business or service.

In most of the above quoted examples, you're quite right, the anti social actions of the customers are mostly unpredictable, so cannot be deemed to be the business's responsibility.

The point being made about some boatyards being irresponsible in letting to some groups of hirers is valid though.

Agreed, it can be very difficult to predict the behavior of any group or family in advance, and certainly not just because they're all single-sex or of a certain age group.

However, the point is well made that each year a number of hirers make life an absolute misery for everyone else, and probably do great damage to the Broads tourist trade, putting other people off for ever.

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL

Here`s another couple of hyperthetical situations to consider,

1) A drug dealer sells some crack cocain to an addict, who then gets completely out of his mind and goes out and murders somebody. Going on the beliefs of some of the forum members here, the dealer is perfectly innocent of the crime of the addict, so should`nt be held responsible for the murder. I don`t think so.

2) A gun dealer sells a sawn off shotgun to a villain who then goes out and robs a jewelry store, and ends up shooting a member of the staff. But hey, according to some of the members here, the gun dealer is`nt responsible because he did`nt comit the robery and pull the trigger.

Yes, i know they are extreme examples, but it`s basically the same principle.

I also think Strowager has got it spot on in his last comment, in that allowing this sort of behaviour to continue, or even dare i say it, increase, it could do irreperable damage to the industry, by putting off many more people forever, and if that DID happen, we`d soon hear fleet operators demanding to know why "nobody did anything to stop it".

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And that is the point exctlly, they must be stopped. We all sit here saying it is the minority, ignore it, move to another mooring, ask them politely to stop (if you dare), don't moor outside pubs etc. But why should we have to suffer, they should be stopped. It is not just noise either- moor at a quiet mooring, St Benet's for instance, and your likely to be washed up on the bank by speeding boats. It goes on and on and I certainly do not believe I should have to cruise out of season to avoid it - I pay my dues for 12 months cruising.

I agree it does not happen every time but whenever I go out I am half expecting it. Who sells that stupiod pirate stuff anyway! No, the Broads need a set of very strong by-laws that are enforced. Such laws would not restrict the behaviour of the well behaved majority and would serve to heighten the enjoyment factor associated with cruising the Broads.

In reality it matters not how mny times this happens - it should not be alllowed and should be discouraged.

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I think the venom displayed in these un-called for rants does more damage to the potential tourist trade than a few boat loads of individuals having a great time.

As for the crazy claims that the yards should be responsible for the actions of their clients ...... sheer lunacy.

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