Jump to content

Breydon


craigmc67

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

So I will try again.

Crossing Breydon keep red ones on your port side (left) and green ones on your Starboard ( right) going south and the opposite going north. so basically keep one colour one side and the other colour on the other. This applies to any marker posts or buoys .

 

 

 

Most punters wouldn't know which way was north or south even if you hit them in the face with a compass..

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think its more that all of the instructions say stay between the posts, and there is a huge section where you need to keep to the left, that straight ahead, there are no posts, so even if you are following the instructions carefully, mistakes can be made. either the posts need to be replaced, and/or the instructions need to be updated, by both the boat yards and the Broads Authority to reflect the current situation.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do agree with FlyingFortress, however, that all of this is totally and utterly irrelevant if someone is going to be as reckless and careless as to take a hire boat out onto Breydon - an unlit navigation - in the middle of the night.

I repeat - no one was hurt, even if they thoroughly deserved to be.  These people were not the first in Breydon's history and they won't be the last.  As for new rules, new posts, new restrictions, etc., it doesn't matter whether you are "coming in from the sea", "going south" or just going round in circles like the rare Japanese Oozlum bird (and those who know the song will know why it is rare). 

You will never prevent people from deliberately behaving like idiots if they really want to.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I do agree with FlyingFortress, however, that all of this is totally and utterly irrelevant if someone is going to be as reckless and careless as to take a hire boat out onto Breydon - an unlit navigation - in the middle of the night.

I repeat - no one was hurt, even if they thoroughly deserved to be.  These people were not the first in Breydon's history and they won't be the last.  As for new rules, new posts, new restrictions, etc., it doesn't matter whether you are "coming in from the sea", "going south" or just going round in circles like the rare Japanese Oozlum bird (and those who know the song will know why it is rare). 

You will never prevent people from deliberately behaving like idiots if they really want to.

Well said.

IMHO no amount of signage or enhanced training will change a thing here.

You sometimes have to accept you can't teach stupid.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

When just seeking controversy, there's little easier than quoting others, out of context.

I was just using your post to show how easy it is to misinterpret something. 

Just like the way ( I think) The Q has misinterpreted my post about going North or South. And yes I admit I could have written it better. :default_blush:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, grendel said:

i suppose its that with modern gps, the up direction is the direction of travel, and the map rotates as you change direction to keep this so.

thus to a lot of people who use the gps, north is now irrelevant.

Valid point Grendel but I think you do know that I was referring to making the passage from Northern Broads to Southern Broads and the reverse, as I said I could have phrased it better.

It might interest you to know that just about all professionals use Radar and Chart plotters in the North up mode. I suppose this is a throwback to paper charts being North up.

Maybe this will change in the future when paper charts are consigned to history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, MauriceMynah said:

Given that on this forum "Going South" means heading to the southern.waters, and "Heading North" means going to the northern waters, compasses are not really the issue.

"Keep the red posts one side and the green the other" SHOULD suffice.

Put much better than I did MM ☺️

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know the area well and have been across Breydon probably close on 200 times. Having checked there is only one very strategic missing post and it needs to be replaced as soon as possible. Also the signage is absolutely abysmal. The timing of the amount of extra groundings in that area and the post going missing can not be seen as a coincidence and the resolution to the problem lies solely at one Authorities door.

I've recently taken a walk along the edge of Breydon and my pictures and a picture from Google maps shows the problem clearly.

In the image below from Google maps I have highlighted the Red and Green posts that are still there, and the missing post in Black. Just as a large gap in the Red posts occurs due to the jetty, opposite is a missing post circled in Black. Now plot an imaginary course as you come under the bridge and look at that inviting gap between the Green posts and the expanse of water that appears to lie ahead. You are told to stay between the posts and you don't see any Red posts for some time, but also the large gap is marked with some lower marker buoys. Why are they buoys and not posts? Could that be the way we are meant to be going? Is that the entrance to Breydon? All valid questions or observations for the inexperienced.

Then you need to consider that where I have put white circles there also used to be arrows pointing to the main navigation channel. One is missing and the other was on the missing post. Well the BA must be aware because they have stuck a recovered, or new sign on the post highlighted Yellow, but that is the first arrow you see after coming under Breydon bridge and is after that large inviting gap.

Breydon.thumb.jpg.d1e618629cf258634607e32e058e1358.jpg

My first shore side picture shows the large gap between the two Green posts and quite hard to see in my picture unless you zoom in are six low buoys. Note not a Red post in sight either. So you are meant to be staying between what?

20220514_132224.thumb.jpg.5c2e0673e6d87fddfa66ff0405ca4338.jpg

Look at all that inviting water just after the dolphin.

20220514_132654.thumb.jpg.8b1a1816ced8b55707ef5e199c2c8b27.jpg

The picture below is the first sign you come to showing the main navigation channel and the first Red post after quite a gap in the posts due to the jetty. It should be simple, the BA could make it a lot more simple with the addition of three new Green posts with a sign on each one pointing out the main channel.

20220514_133613.thumb.jpg.153159d0598575c8d840af9dbd6342c0.jpg

 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose the crux of the matter is that all the while the posts are missing and the signs are not easily visible, anyone who does go aground will have a good excuse why it wasnt their error, and the Broads Authority could be seen to be liable. as they are supposed to maintain the navigation and signage. if the signage and instructions are not clear, then that is a maintenance issue.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BroadAmbition said:

New signs have been put up on some posts in the last few days by Everitt Marine 

Griff

It took John Cressey to come up with the idea originally and that helped the situation a lot. Then the BA realised it seemed to be working and replaced John's signs. Why are they not maintaining them? Why has it taken another recovery company to put up signs for them? The BA wanted control of Breydon from the port authority, are they perhaps regretting it now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It might actually help if the posts were installed similar to the rather simplified diagram shown in the Broadcaster with the posts directly opposite each other. It wouldn't take much to also depict the jetty to give people a point of reference. Even perhaps a big warning note that sometimes marker posts can go missing and be replaced by temporary, (I use that word loosely because I don't suppose they will be replaced quickly), marker buoys.

Breydon2.thumb.png.b62aff51e359b613ba65380b476b8a18.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps when they do replace the poles they will use steel ones rather then wooden inverted telegraph poles, these can be driven in further and resist being knocked over/snapped off and would last longer then wooden ones, they would be more expensive BUT! cheaper in the long term. John

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Part of the issue is that I am not sure they are telegraph poles - I think they may be hard wood. Indeed they could even be OLD hardwood.

Steel posts would probably help but lets not talk about moving them all - we do not need that adding to the nav bill! Perhaps they should be alternate so the posts are never that far apart!!:default_rolleyes:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, marshman said:

Part of the issue is that I am not sure they are telegraph poles - I think they may be hard wood. Indeed they could even be OLD hardwood.

Steel posts would probably help but lets not talk about moving them all - we do not need that adding to the nav bill! Perhaps they should be alternate so the posts are never that far apart!!:default_rolleyes:

Marshman. I would say they would be Greenheart wood,usually used for marine works i.e groynes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct! I just forgot what they called it! In the past  I believe they have used them from dismantled groynes but having looked online, I was amazed at the price - lets only encourage them to do the necessary ones!!! Dread to think how long they are and the price of a full size one!!!

If you look on "the other side" you will see it was the BA who had a hand in putting out the markers and signs! Or so they say!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, marshman said:

If you look on "the other side" you will see it was the BA who had a hand in putting out the markers and signs! Or so they say!!

If by the other side you mean Richard's you will see that it was Everitt Marine Services who put out the markers and signs with the BA onboard Spirit of Breydon eyeing up that the sign were level and at the correct angle.

A task that the BA should be more than capable of doing.

Taken from Facebook

"

Everitt Marine Services

22h  · 

Yesterday we put three more markers out on Breydon and today we fitted two channel signs to posts 1 and 1A. Many thanks to Keith and Martin on Spirit of Breydon for there assistance making sure we had the signs at the correct angle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Meantime said:

It took John Cressey to come up with the idea originally and that helped the situation a lot. Then the BA realised it seemed to be working and replaced John's signs. Why are they not maintaining them? Why has it taken another recovery company to put up signs for them? The BA wanted control of Breydon from the port authority, are they perhaps regretting it now?

i would imagine the recovery company will be handsomely paid for their efforts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, gancanny said:

i would imagine the recovery company will be handsomely paid for their efforts

I wouldn't bank on it! John Cressey was paid by the Broads Hire Federation to provide a recovery service. He put the initial signs up to prevent so many call outs, I believe he was paid annually rather than on a per call out basis. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

I wouldn't bank on it! John Cressey was paid by the Broads Hire Federation to provide a recovery service. He put the initial signs up to prevent so many call outs, I believe he was paid annually rather than on a per call out basis. 

which is also quite likely the very reason this is being done again this time.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

For details of our Guidelines, please take a look at the Terms of Use here.