Our First Time on the Broads 22nd – 29th October 2011

[donnygeoff]

by contrast Richardsons, like many other yards, have a number of older boats, which are often available at a slightly cheaper cost.

Yes they have,

We are hirers, and have always gone for the less expensive boats, My OH has always said

"where do the expensive boats more up, where we do" "which pubs do the crews from the more expensive boats go to. the ones we do"

Yes they have their flat screen TV (WHO WANTS TO WATCH TV WHEN ON THE BROADS)

Yes they have their two heads (toilets) and showers, but one does us, even when the kids come.

Yes they do have their luxsuries when aboard, but for one or two weeks, forget them,

FEEL THE BROADS

Oh, and don't forget I am a Yorkshireman..

[VetChugger]

I'm a Yorkshireman too but the fella that comes with us is a veggie and eats buckets of lentils and odd looking beans! I would ask you to reconsider! Would you really settle for one loo??

Trevor

www.normanboats.co.uk

[donnygeoff]

I'm a Yorkshireman too but the fella that comes with us is a veggie and eats buckets of lentils and odd looking beans! I would ask you to reconsider! Would you really settle for one loo??

Trevor

YUP, I would tell him to eat propper on our boat.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

If you do decide to hire down South, IMHO its worth having a look at Swancraft in Brundall – superb boats and the maintenance is top notch – I know from personal experience!!

Hi Kugababe, welcome to the forum.

I would totally agree with that, and i`ve never even been with them. However, we did stay overnight in their yard in June, and they were very obliging and accomodating to us. A really nice family run yard with some excellent boats.

Re Dans point about not having to have a boat from a southern yard?, why hire a boat from a Northern yard and waste 2 days of a week heading down to the southern rivers and then back up North afterwards, when you can save on fuel and time, and enjoy more of the Southern rivers at a more leisurely pace. Yes, Breydon water is enjoyable, but only if the tide is in the right direction, whereas if the right tides are throughout the night, you`ll be forever punching the tides which increases the time needed to get there and back, and will also increase fuel. costs.

Re the heating problems in the cabins, the correct way to work out the correct size of heater is to work out the volume (cubic metres) of space in the cabins, and use the heater unit specified for the total space. If the total volume of all the cabins and other areas is too big for a specific heater, then as Antares says, they should have several heaters for individual areas, such as one for the fwd section and one for the aft, and one for the salloon. That way, when you`ve got the heater on for the salloon, you won`t be wasting fuel heating the cabins when they are`nt needed. All you would need to do is put the cabin heaters on 20 mins before you go to bed. The excuse about the heat going cold before warming the cabins is completely laughable, and is just a fob-off. Personally, i would write a letter of complaint stating all the faults with the boat, and asking for a partial refund.

Another question, did they explain and demonstrate to you and especially your children, how to correctly wear the bouyancy aids?.

It`s really great to hear it HAS`NT put you off the Broads, and hope that next time you come (on the southern side) you have a boat that works properly.

[Antares_9]

Neil is quite right about the volumetric calculation, but on a boat that’s only the start of it, glass area, quality of insulation, hull and upperworks material along with expected seasons cruising all have to be taken into account, and Webasto give us dealers access to some quite complex software which makes it a bit easier. As an example a narrowboat which was built with spray insulating foam and wooden panelling as many are requires a different output to maintain internal temperature than say a GRP hulled cruiser with the same volume that has large amounts of glass in the saloon like our own boat which is like a greenhouse when the sun shines in the winter but loses large amounts of heat at night and in dull conditions the cabin remains chilly in winter regardeless of sunshine, having only two small portholes and a hatch and being on a lower level. Really the only way to achieve efficient heating for different zones in a large boat is a coolant based system and fan assisted rads with the fans each linked to an individual thermostats and there is the rub, that all cost a lot of money both in equipment, planning and hours to install.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I can`t understand why many of the Broads hire cruisers are NOT insulated when you consider some are hired throughout the winter. When Karen and i hire cottages for other holidays, we sometimes go in October, even November, and they`ve all got some form of central heating, along with insulated lofts and double glazing etc, so why not insulate a boat properly, especially when you`re going to hire them in early and Late season months?. Could it be down to witholding financial investment, or am i being a bit synical, yet again?.

[Antares_9]

It's up to hirers really, if they are prepared to pay the price then anything would be possible, it's simply a case of return on capital employed which I am certain all the yards have chapter and verse on. I suspect that for the majority of hire cruisers for the majority of the time the heating is satisfactory but the more you spend the more you need back.

[Kugababe]

Hi Kugababe, welcome to the forum.

I would totally agree with that, and i`ve never even been with them. However, we did stay overnight in their yard in June, and they were very obliging and accomodating to us. A really nice family run yard with some excellent boats.

Re Dans point about not having to have a boat from a southern yard?, why hire a boat from a Northern yard and waste 2 days of a week heading down to the southern rivers and then back up North afterwards, when you can save on fuel and time, and enjoy more of the Southern rivers at a more leisurely pace. Yes, Breydon water is enjoyable, but only if the tide is in the right direction, whereas if the right tides are throughout the night, you`ll be forever punching the tides which increases the time needed to get there and back, and will also increase fuel. costs.

Re the heating problems in the cabins, the correct way to work out the correct size of heater is to work out the volume (cubic metres) of space in the cabins, and use the heater unit specified for the total space. If the total volume of all the cabins and other areas is too big for a specific heater, then as Antares says, they should have several heaters for individual areas, such as one for the fwd section and one for the aft, and one for the salloon. That way, when you`ve got the heater on for the salloon, you won`t be wasting fuel heating the cabins when they are`nt needed. All you would need to do is put the cabin heaters on 20 mins before you go to bed. The excuse about the heat going cold before warming the cabins is completely laughable, and is just a fob-off. Personally, i would write a letter of complaint stating all the faults with the boat, and asking for a partial refund.

Another question, did they explain and demonstrate to you and especially your children, how to correctly wear the bouyancy aids?.

It`s really great to hear it HAS`NT put you off the Broads, and hope that next time you come (on the southern side) you have a boat that works properly.

Thank you for your input & advice Daytona-Bill...

The answer to your question re the boyancy aids is "No explanation or demonstration" - after we had unpacked, the NBD guy came onboard carrying 4 x boyancy aids and handed them to me and just said "Here are your 4 life-jackets" I did think at the time that it was all a bit lightweight - however we are cruisers (the 4500-6000 passenger size of ships!) so we have worn life-jackets before - albeit only for the Muster Drills thankfully !!

Thank you also for your suggestion of a letter of complaint. I have this morning done this and called to get the name of the owner of NBD, and have posted the letter requesting partial refund to him. I will post again when (and if) I get a reply from him...

[Kugababe]

Thank you all so much for your input and for all your advice, tips & opinions since I posted my trip report... Even though most of the 'technical stuff (volumetric calculation ?!?) has wizzed right over the top of my head

It's great to know that there are people on forums like this that are willing to help out first timers !!!

Thanks again everyone

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

You`re more thamn welcome Kugababe. I`m sure i speak on behalf of EVERYBODY, that we`re all more than happy to help wherever we can.

Re "Bouyancy aids?, i think that`s disgraceful NOT being shown how to wear them properly, and what`s worse, they never even requested you try them for size first, so that you know you`ve got the right ones for each member of the crew. A bouyancy aide that is too small is next to useless, as is one that is too big, which can easily be slipped out of by someone of small stature.

Even though your holiday is well and truly over, please keep posting and join in the fun.

[Guest]

We were the first hirers on Fair President 3 in April this year - I can recognise the problems with the heating .... I had the aft cabin and it was freezing on a night. We didnt experience any engine problems until we were heading back to the yard late on the Friday evening, when she did start losing revs - we mentioned it before we left but we thought it was just teething problems ... maybe it was a problem that was never sorted out all season?????

[Kugababe]

We were the first hirers on Fair President 3 in April this year - I can recognise the problems with the heating .... I had the aft cabin and it was freezing on a night. We didnt experience any engine problems until we were heading back to the yard late on the Friday evening, when she did start losing revs - we mentioned it before we left but we thought it was just teething problems ... maybe it was a problem that was never sorted out all season?????

Oh dear Sunnysunlight - sorry to hear that you experienced the same problems on the FP3 - I wonder how many other hirers had the same issues as us?

I wonder how many reported it to NBD?

If anyone else did report these problems to NBD - did you do it verbally (as we did) and by letter (as we have done) ???

Did you get any response from NBD ?

I wrote to the owner of NBD last week - and am currently being ignored

No acknowledgement of my letter - Nothing - Nada !!!

This is not good business practice NBD - Not good at all !!!!

I think we paid a considerable amount of money to hire the FP3 for the week - £1450 - the very least I expected was to receive a reply from them - or am I expecting too much ???

I have my own business and if I ever ignored any of my clients/customers requests or comments - then I wouldn't deserve to keep them as customers or clients !!!

[Dan]

I wrote to the owner of NBD last week - and am currently being ignored

No acknowledgement of my letter - Nothing - Nada !!!

This is not good business practice NBD - Not good at all !!!!

....I have my own business and if I ever ignored any of my clients/customers requests or comments - then I wouldn't deserve to keep them as customers or clients !!!

I agree, however it is only Tuesday today so if you only wrote last week you may be a little premature, particularly if information needs to be collated from various different people within the organisation in order to generate a fair response.

NBD do not generally have a bad reputation at all, so I would be very suprised, and quite disappointed if no response arrives given another week or so

Dan

[Kugababe]

Here is an update on my letter - now that I have received a reply...

"At Norfolk Broads Direct we pride ourselves on our levels of service and support and I am sorry that you felt that the boat you hired was not to the standard you expected."

"We have, after your holiday, tried to replicate the problem with the engine.... but cannot identify any fault as yet to enable us to diagnose if there is a problem, but we shall keep on trying."

"You also state that the air from the heater in the bedrooms was "cold". We have investigated the heater and found it to be in full working order. However the heating system, as used in the boating world, does work on the principle of blowing hot air along pipes from a central location out through ducts at various points. Therefore the air coming out of the last vent will inevitably be cooler than from the vent nearest the heater. Closing one or two vents along the way should ensure a better distribution, however the system has a 5KW output so should be adequate within a boat the size of the Fair President and I am sorry that you felt it was not so."

(N.B. We shut the vent in the central cabin to try to generate some heat towards the other 2 vents in the front & aft bedrooms - made no difference at all !!!)

"I am sorry that having attracted a new customer both to us and the Broads that you felt we did not give you either good service or good value from Norfolk Broads Direct."

"Ordinarily, as a gesture of goodwill in a situation such as this I would offer a disappointed customer a discount against a future holiday with us. However in this situation, and having already had what I believe to be the biggest and best we can offer, I am under the impression from your letter that this would be neither relevant nor appreciated. I therefore enclose without prejudice a cheque for £100 and in full and final settlement of the matter which I hope you will find acceptable."

Well, I suppose that £100 is better than a slap in the face with a wet fish, however we won't be hiring from NBD again next year... and neither will our friends (family of 7) that were on a Fair Emporer the same time as us...

[Antares_9]

I really don't feel comfortable commenting on the engine issue as there are too many variables to make meaningful comments and it would be unfair to do so.

BUT

"however the system has a 5KW output so should be adequate within a boat the size of the Fair President and I am sorry that you felt it was not so."

5kw, on a boat that size, they are having a Turkish, I did a quick calculation and if I were installing on a boat that size with that amount of glass I would be fitting a DBW2010 which is 11.6 KW 44,000 BTU unit to be reasonably certain of customer satisfaction. However that is a coolant based system with remote matrix and separate thermostats, so, I'll be kind and go like for like in which case I would fit a HL90 air heater with a 9kw output or 30,700btu as opposed to a 5kw which puts out around 12,000 btu.

It's not that you didn't feel it was adequate, it technically is not adequate, the numbers simply do not add up and the cost of a HL90 is not anywhere near even half the price again of a 5kw unit so it really is spoiling the ship for a hapor'th of tar.

[senator]

I'm sorry if this is stating the obvious but in the light of the lack of instruction and given that you report the engine problem as first occurring when leaving Yarmouth, did anyone explain to you about tides?

On the issue of hook up's, there are non at the free moreings on the Broads, at least not officially. The ones that are there are charging points for electric boats.

Obviously they get used as power points but most hire boats don't have mains systems on board any way so never need a 240v hook up. Private marina's and now some of the yacht stations, Beccles and Oulton broad to name 2 now have power points.

As for reserving the free moring points I would say that could only be entertained for an electric boat that would simply stop without them.

Glad you enjoyed yourself despite the mottled and hope to see you next year.

[MY littleboat]

Good question Ian and certainly one that occured to me to ask too, Kugababe, it is entirely possible that you were just pushing against the current and thats why you were struggling to make headway