Controlling a hire boat

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I can see absolutely no link between minimum wage and substandard handovers and as for more and more people be in the minimum wage (don't get me started on this stupid idea that manages more to label people and provide a yardstick than provide a level playingfield), that's a non-starter in this discussion.

The reasons for short showouts can only be one of time pressure. If I've got 15 boats to show out at 2pm and only 5 staff to do the work, I may well have people waiting for 45 minutes or monger before we can have someone with them. I recall when I was a holidaymaker on the Broads in the 70s and 80s that this kind of delay was normal, but in today's instant society, it would be unacceptable.

A good skipper is one who fully appreciates their own limitations and acts appropraitely.

I think the point about low wages dictating attitudes is to some extent very valid. From my experiences, i`ve often heard the expression "if you pay peanuts, you only get to employ monkees" used quite a lot, and although i`ve never worked in the hire boat industry, it would`nt surprise me to find out it applies here too. I`ve heard all too often people say "i`m not bothered, so long as i get payed" which in all honesty, i quite understand when you work damn hard and put in a lot of effort, even take responsibility for things you`re not really responsible or payed for, but you wilfully undertake so as to demonstrate your skills and abilities, only to get told "that`s what you get payed for". The simple fact is, if you`re only going to pay the minimum wage, you have absolutely no rite whatsoever to expect anything more than minimum input and attitude.

As for the point about "todays instant society" making things unacceptable, that`s what happens when you let customers dictate operational times. Set you operational practices and stick to them. My answer with a 3-1 boat to staff ratio would be to have staggered take over and handback times. You simply start a boat at say 1pm and have it handed back at 9am the following week, then the next at 2.30pm and handed back at 10.30 am and the last at 4.00pm and handed back at noon. That way, you`ll have 4 hours to service each boat, and a 1hr 15 min hand over which would allow plenty of time to give a reasonable demonstration and practice of how to start, stop, steer, and moor a boat, AND to get the correctly fitting bouyancy aides and demonstrate how to wear them properly.

[littlesprite]

I'm sorry but suggesting bad pay equals bad work/attitude is just not on, people are individuals and should be treated as such.

Or are you saying that Bankers get paid well so are all good?

[Dan]

I'm sorry but suggesting bad pay equals bad work/attitude is just not on, people are individuals and should be treated as such.

Or are you saying that Bankers get paid well so are all good?

Well indeed, but then things are much easier if there's a quick answer

I think the most saddening thing is that I dont think any of Broadland's hirefleets are doing a bad job on this point all things considered but I suppose it is always easy to critiscise - doing a better job yourself is normally an available option, though not always such an easy reality

Dan

[Antares_9]

Right on Dan, without first hand knowlege of them most things seem very simple until one actually has to do them, if it were not so nobody would have any room for complaint about anything, although I feer confident some still would.

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I think the most saddening thing is that I dont think any of Broadland's hirefleets are doing a bad job on this point all things considered but I suppose it is always easy to critiscise - doing a better job yourself is normally an available option, though not always such an easy reality

Dan

Dan, read the OP, there`s one glowing example straight away, and from a well established yard. I`m NOT saying it was due to low wages, but as i said above, when you pay for something, you can only expect what you pay for, be it as a customer, or as an employer. After all, if you worked in a garage and somebody brings in a car and pays for just a routine service, you would`nt (as the garage owner) valet the car and fit new tyres aswell for the same price?. No, they`ve paid for a service, and that`s all you`re going to do. So it should come as no surprise if somebody is payed the minimum wage, they give minimum back. However, i do think in the hire boat industry there are other "perks" that employees get, such as free holidays on the yards boats etc when available?. I know this goes on, because i`ve been told so by some of the employees at several yards, so good luck to them.

[Dan]

Dan, read the OP, there`s one glowing example straight away, and from a well established yard. I`m NOT saying it was due to low wages, but as i said above, when you pay for something, you can only expect what you pay for, be it as a customer, or as an employer. After all, if you worked in a garage and somebody brings in a car and pays for just a routine service, you would`nt (as the garage owner) valet the car and fit new tyres aswell for the same price?. No, they`ve paid for a service, and that`s all you`re going to do. So it should come as no surprise if somebody is payed the minimum wage, they give minimum back. However, i do think in the hire boat industry there are other "perks" that employees get, such as free holidays on the yards boats etc when available?. I know this goes on, because i`ve been told so by some of the employees at several yards, so good luck to them.

Thanks Neil

I dont need to read it again, I am aware it says they got basic training. To some degree that is what I'd expect... they are not able to stay with you until you are an experts are they. If a company did give you a three hour tuition session what about the fact that peoples attention shuts down after a short time.

The original poster does not say that he got the impression the member of staff didn't care less or did a disgraceful job and got the impression it was all because he wasn't paid as much as he would have liked, which seems to have somehow come into it all. Infact the OP says they managed OK... so although comented that training is quite short it appears there are some grounds to believe they did a succesful job!

I wont waste too much more time on this one, but one final area that might be worth considering before jumping on you pay peanuts you get rubbish is

1. I dont remember you commenting on poor customer service from the boatyards & businesses you've frequented before, so is there really a I dont care because I'm not paid enough outlook going on anyway!?

2. Everyone would like to be paid more, but wages are normally decided with some business and viability rationale attached - if every team member is paid say £3k more p.a are you then going to be happy paying say another 20% to hire your boat, or will that then be another outrage or area of disgust. If people are paid more and jobs cut to keep the cost/hire fee the same how can you then have as long spent on boat maintenance, upkeep and areas such as handovers and what about the people who would have to lose their jobs (not to mention for no good reason!)

Dan

[brandenjg]

Hi all im the original poster, I got what was needed from the tuition and it didnt come down to pay or anything else. The post was to ask advice on getting someone who hadn't used a boat before ready to get on the broads. I agree that learning how to do things on a boat yourself is part of the fun but also part of the risk with boat incidents along the broads.

Im sure in current times anyone with a job is going to work their ass off to keep the job so they're not going to do just the minimum possible work.

[Guest]

when we had our vip's tour this year we had to boats out from richo's the chap who hand the boat over to you i showed more than enough of what i knew at his desecration i dint need to tuition & i was fine to take the boat out with out no trial run.... boats all over the show each side of us & infront swung her out under power dint bump a boat he was watching me with an evil eye once clear gave him self a little smile & gave a little clap

but when swinging round next to diamond gem with the other family on we had to wait 2 hours before they would let them go as my dad wanted the rest of the family to get use to the boat as he wanted to be aboard san elena with us .... buy boy is 2hrs a long time to wait

Jonny

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Thanks Neil

I dont need to read it again, I am aware it says they got basic training. To some degree that is what I'd expect... they are not able to stay with you until you are an experts are they. If a company did give you a three hour tuition session what about the fact that peoples attention shuts down after a short time.

The original poster does not say that he got the impression the member of staff didn't care less or did a disgraceful job and got the impression it was all because he wasn't paid as much as he would have liked, which seems to have somehow come into it all. Infact the OP says they managed OK... so although comented that training is quite short it appears there are some grounds to believe they did a succesful job!

I wont waste too much more time on this one, but one final area that might be worth considering before jumping on you pay peanuts you get rubbish is

1. I dont remember you commenting on poor customer service from the boatyards & businesses you've frequented before, so is there really a I dont care because I'm not paid enough outlook going on anyway!?

2. Everyone would like to be paid more, but wages are normally decided with some business and viability rationale attached - if every team member is paid say £3k more p.a are you then going to be happy paying say another 20% to hire your boat, or will that then be another outrage or area of disgust. If people are paid more and jobs cut to keep the cost/hire fee the same how can you then have as long spent on boat maintenance, upkeep and areas such as handovers and what about the people who would have to lose their jobs (not to mention for no good reason!)

Dan

Dan, Having been fully employed since september 74, i`ve heard from many "horse`s mouths" "i don`t care, i get payed for it", and "if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys", so i DO know what i`m talking about, and yes, i HAVE had bad service from one of the bigger hire fleets, and i`ve vowed NEVER to go back with them, which is exactly how it`s stayed. Ironically, the best service i`ve ever had has ALWAYS been with Maffett cruisers, who incidentally charge LESS than anybody else.

The minimum wage thing IS and always WILL be a factor on SOME, yes, SOME (but not all) peoples attitudes to an employer, and the job they`re employed to do. Again, i`ve heard frrom many "horse`s mouths". Whether you choose to believe it is a matter for your concience, but it does`nt change the fact that it is just that, A FACT.

I would also like to point out that this is in NO way directed at the yard the OP posted about.

[donnygeoff]

MINIMUM WAGE MY ****

The minimum wage was brought in to put the earnings of lower paid people up..........end of

If there was no MINIMUM WAGE, people would still be working for less...............and doing the job, as if they didn't someone else would...........

Oh and after that rant,

HOW TO HANDLE A HIRE BOAT......

Take it steady, enjoy the experience, and no matter how long you have been doing it, you will still learn every time you set off down the river.

[Oddfellow]

Donny,

I appreciate that this is off topic; apologies to all. I'll keep it short.

The idea behind the minimum wage is laudable but the reality is that nobody seemed to properly think about the concequences of it. A label has been created - you're no longer a low paid worker who's income is private, you're a minimum pay worker. Everybody knows your income all of a sudden. There are many, many other detrimental elements for the employee and employer surrounding the minimum wage also but as this is not the place for discussing this, I'll desist.

Back on topic, I think there's a lot of sense being written here and we're constantly looking for ways to improve our customers experience, including regular revisions of the skippers handbooks and a selection of other ideas that we hope to introduce in 2012. I would hope that at some point, we'll get the Hire Boat Handover accreditation also.

[MY littleboat]

An absolutely fair and balanced point. As the originator of the minimum wage angle I would like to clarify one thing. The minimum wage was lntroduced and linked to something called the 'living wage' index which was to ensure that no one lived in poverty under the previous government yet whilst the living wage continued to ruse in line with inflation and the cost of consumables, the minimum wage didn't which has risen at a much lower rate And thereby in theory returned SOME families to a place under the poverty line

In addition to this, having left the armed forces recently and now working in the transport industry, I have been placed with companies that, because workers always work in excess of the WTM minimum of 36 have found a loophole and these (few) companies pay LESS than the minimum wage by way of getting their drivers to sign exemption contracts. In fact the average hourly rate for an HGV driver has fallen by almost £2 an hour over the last 7 or 8 years for a number of reasons not limited to but including: fuel costs, availability of cheap labour, large companies driving down what they will pay and many more

So why introduce this into the argument, well this was response to a conversation in the Lord Nelson with two people who worked for a Broads yard who were told that they would be having their wages reduced to minimum in order to keep their jobs, I must add I don't know what their jobs were withtge yard concerned but I do know who they were working for, and instead of giving the impression that they would now work harder for their money, sadly it was completely the opposite

Now I asked in open question as rightly, as Clive mentioned, I do not know what a handover for the yards involved and I only wished to highlight that this year there have been a higher than average number of very high. Profile incidents and again we had the old '5 minutes' on the water training question raised

All in all I'm not sure why Neils idea of staggered times couldn't work? Or is this due to how that cleaning teams work?

Either way, thus is an interesting conversation and as Dan says, the Broads has an incredible range of highly skilled and dedicated people, there will always be someone letting the side down,but then again if the cost of increased success (as has been eluded to by some yards in magazines of late) I'd to achieve that by paying staff less and not allowing them an opportunity to share in that success then they may never experience the magic that happens when people take ownership of their work and their productivity and diligence goes through the roof!

[Oddfellow]

The staggered arrival time concept sometimes works; if there's a prevailing wind and a lot of luck.

It worked for us last Friday with seven boats to get out. We called all the customers the day before and told them the boats were ready from 10am if they wanted to arrive early.

The natural staggering of arrivals meant that all seven boats were shown out by just two people across the whole day.

This only worked becuase we had the boats prepared the day before, which would be impossible on a busy turnaround day.