The Sunken Boat On Haddiscoe New Cut Should Be Removed Tomorrow

[andyg]

15 minutes ago, Hylander said:

Well that is a relief to hear,   when I read that this boat would be in service by next weekend I was absolutely astonished.  River water stinks , just take a whiff of a keep net when it is drying out.       You can imagine the logistics of it all,  everything has to dry out, all electrics stripped , beds. bedding, linings of the boat all would have suffered and lord help the poor engine.      Yes it will be a mammoth task.     

I wouldn't be surprised if that was out on hire by next weekend, I've seen them do it before. The boat was sunk on the chet, it was refloated towed back arriving back at the yard at midnight lifted out straight into the shed. Strpped out jet washed inside, hole repaired etc etc and back to work in went in 5 days. She's still in the fleet today. All in a days work for a hire yard. 

 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Has it actually been rescued yet or is it still there ???

[Andrewcook]

 Good morning Hylander & andyg as you both say the Boat will soon be back in operation to what it says on the  Hiring invoice about this Damage waiver whatever cost it is. The Insurance kicks into paying out to the Boatyard concern as this is where these people get cracking on that Boat to be back  on Hiring once again

[andyg]

5 minutes ago, Andrewcook said:

 Good morning Hylander & andyg as you both say the Boat will soon be back in operation to what it says on the  Hiring invoice about this Damage waiver whatever cost it is. The Insurance kicks into paying out to the Boatyard concern as this is where these people get cracking on that Boat to be back  on Hiring once again

I'm not a 100% sure if this will be an insurance job Andrew but most likely will be. I see the damage wavier charge as revenue stream for hire yard and helps off set winter maintenance costs. Hire boat getting sunk happen quite frequently unfortunately. Big yards are set up for it and more often then not have a spare boat or land base accommodation available if guest with to carry on with there holiday. It's an inconvenience for sure but nothing they can't deal with. The only important thing is all the crew are safe. 

E 

[grendel]

the hire yards generally have the advantage that they have spare engines, and all other parts sitting on the shelf available as well as spare cushions etc, and teams of people who can easily refit a boat in short order, if you think, over the winter boats come in and are spruced up or a complete refit done, probably in less than a week, and then they go on to the next in line.

[TeamElla]

Look in the comments (past all the usual adverts), where relatives of the actual people involved have contributed:-

https://www.greatyarmouthmercury.co.uk/news/boat-sinks-on-broads-at-st-olaves-norfolk-9278592

 

Wild speculation:-

If the boat came to rest in the same direction that it had been travelling, the "unseen metal ripping through the boat" could well have been a collision with one of the rock filled wire gabons that line that side of the cut (further back towards Reedham). These have been known to slip down the bank and into the navigation in the past.

This area has just been experiencing high water levels and some flooding with resultant stronger currents, which could be a factor in dislodging a gabon. Having said that, I have noticed that the gabons have been in much better shape of late, whereas a few years back they wete in a sorry state.

They don't even need to be out of position to be hit if a boat passes too close to the bank, which is one of the reasons for the warning signs to keep clear of the bank there.

However, the flooding would have to be relatively slow in order to come to rest where they did as the gabons must be a good 20 minutes further back down the cut.

 

[Vaughan]

14 minutes ago, grendel said:

the hire yards generally have the advantage that they have spare engines, and all other parts sitting on the shelf available as well as spare cushions etc, and teams of people who can easily refit a boat in short order, if you think, over the winter boats come in and are spruced up or a complete refit done, probably in less than a week, and then they go on to the next in line.

If only it were as easy as that.

Grendel, by quoting you I am not replying to you personally but surely, we are off speculating again?  Just pump it out, wipe the cushions, a quick squirt of Febreze in the headlining and away we go for next week.  If that is what people think of the hire business then I despair of all I have been trying to explain here for years.

It has been mentioned elsewhere that we have abnormal high water at the moment with salt water incursion far up the rivers from the sea.  It was even noticed up as far as Potter.  So that boat sank in brackish water.  So goodbye all the electric wiring, pumps, motors and other equipment including light fittings.  They may work now, but not for long!  If there has been any cheapness in the building, by the use of chipboard or MDF then it is ruined.  That also applies to the whole galley if it was made from flat pack kitchen units.

Why do we think that our cars are always written off by insurance companies, if they they get caught in a flood?

[Chelsea14Ian]

I think Vaughan  has explained the situation  well.The main thing is all are safe.Does it matter when the boat returns  to the fleet.Surly the main thing is work is carried  out correctly,which I'm sure they will do.

[jeffbroadslover]

Having read the reports has anyone heard if there has been any sort of search for an underwater object in the area?

There must be some boats somewhere not too far away which have a sonar/fish finder device which may be able to "look" for anything which could be a danger to others.

Jeff

[FlyingFortress]

Don't think anyone said it was easy Vaughan.

Large yards such as HW have large teams of very skilled workers on tap who are used to doing total refurbs of older boats. When I have seen this done ( not at HW btw) the boat has been totally stripped internally except for toilets,tanks and running gear. It is then re built from floor up including all bulkheads and fittings.

Obviously in the case of a sinking there is more work involved and I would not want to commit to a timescale but this work CAN be done in pretty short order if the will is there and it fits in with other scheduled work.

As it is now late in the season this may effect the scheduling of this work but I am pretty sure we will see this boat back in hire next season if it is deemed economically viable.

[FlyingFortress]

21 minutes ago, jeffbroadslover said:

Having read the reports has anyone heard if there has been any sort of search for an underwater object in the area?

There must be some boats somewhere not too far away which have a sonar/fish finder device which may be able to "look" for anything which could be a danger to others.

Jeff

Jeff

I think The BA would be on to this pretty quickly, well I hope so anyway as I will be going that way early next week.

The area where this accident happened is frequently flooded around where the river narrows under the bridge. It would be hard for anyone who is not VERY familiar with this area to tell where the river bank actually is. Think about coming into somewhere like Reedham when the tide is over the quay heading. At least you have a clue there as the mooring posts stick up.

Or indeed it could be what TeamElla said earlier.

More speculation I know 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

.

Why do we think that our cars are always written off by insurance companies, if they they get caught in a flood?

Cars have far more electrickery with chips to control all manner of things so the man hours to replace these items often means such vehicles are written off!

Nobody said it was as easy as wiping down cushions and a quick spray around with a fabric refresher but I would think an industrial wet vac and a steam cleaner is a good start.

[Wussername]

OBB. Have you ever been inside a boat which has been submerged following the tide conditions which were prevalent on that particular day? 

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Large yards such as HW have large teams of very skilled workers on tap who are used to doing total refurbs of older boats. When I have seen this done ( not at HW btw) the boat has been totally stripped internally except for toilets,tanks and running gear. It is then re built from floor up including all bulkheads and fittings.

Obviously in the case of a sinking there is more work involved and I would not want to commit to a timescale but this work CAN be done in pretty short order if the will is there and it fits in with other scheduled work.

As it is now late in the season this may effect the scheduling of this work but I am pretty sure we will see this boat back in hire next season if it is deemed economically viable.

I thought you said - several times - that you know nothing about the hire boat business?

I can tell us a story that may illustrate the gravity of the problem :

In 1993 I joined Crown Blue Line and was made manager of a new base on the Marne, at Chateau-Thierry. From November until the following Easter I had to make a builder's merchant's shed into a boatyard, receive boats from other bases, negotiate with local authorities on a river that had never seen hire boats before and get everything ready for our new base, advertised in the brochure, to start hiring boats for Easter.

When Easter came, the weather turned bad and the river swelled up and flooded over the banks.  I looked at the tree trunks flowing down the river past the quay and reckoned they were doing at least 8 kilometres an hour.  Our boats were capable of 11 KPH.  I drove to the nearest moorings available, up and downstream and found that the pontoons were already submerged underwater, so anyone trying to get shelter there, would be impaled on the mooring posts, since the pontoons were  submerged.  I had no choice but to phone my boss John Riddel, one of the founder members of Blue Line in France, and tell him I would have to close the base for Easter.  John knew my experience from the Thames, so he backed me up and transferred all the bookings to other bases in the south of France.

Meantime, at St Jean de Losne, on the Saone, the same flooding had occurred but the manager thought it was no problem and let all the boats out on hire.  He was (is) a great friend of mine who had started his career with me at Port Cassafieres back in the 80s but he admitted to me later that he had only ever known canals before and didn't realise how badly rivers can flood.

Anyway, a brand new Crusader, worth £180,000 cost price at the time, on its first week on hire, moored that night on a pontoon that was on the map, but submerged and found itself impaled on the mooring posts when the water went down again.  Our best salvage expert (the manager from the river Lot) was sent to recover it but it was a wild mooring with no road access.  The only solution was to jack up the inboard side, let it capsize and sink in the river.  From there, it could be pumped and recovered by crane.  The insurers agreed for the boat to be trucked back to England where Crown Cruisers, who had only just built it, could strip it out and start again. It came back to France about 3 months later.

Yes, sure, you can haul it out, mend the holes and get it back on hire in a week, with all these teams of staff that people seem to think that boatyards have on hand, with nothing else to do.

The problem from the hirer's point of view is that this boat will then be a rogue, that will suffer breakdowns for years afterwards.  And all of these faults and failures will have to be suffered by the hirers and will come out of the time that they have to enjoy their weeks holiday on the Broads.

That is not what I would call "preventive maintenance".

 

[andyg]

When we arrived at richardsons last Friday lunchtime we were shown straight onto our boat. I went on 1st and was surprised to find two chippys onboard repairing the middle cabin headboard that had been damaged. They informed me that they were all but finished but we were missing the front cabin mattress, which was discovered to be wet by the house keeping team. They told me it was in the dryer and shouldn't be long. Wow I said that's some dryer, apparently that's what happens to all wet furnishings at Stalham. So washing and drying things that big don't appear to be a big drama. I've absolutely no idea if that's true I'm relaying what they told me. 5 mins later a couple of young lads turned up with said mattresses. We declined the offer of having housekeeping come onboard to make up the bed. 

[Cheesey69]

I think it’s more to the point is finding out what exactly happened and how. 
Over high tides are not rare and we really need to know what it hit. 

[Mouldy]

6 hours ago, andyg said:

Sorry I don't buy into some of the reasons we have been asked not to comment. For a start all the information was already in the public domain to a far bigger audience then this forum reaches. It's absolute nonsense that the mods here believe our comments would damage a companies reputation that's just being a tad over sensitive and believing the forum is something it isn't. Sorry a tad harsh but it's the reality. There's no harm in debating what may of happened as some good may of surfaced because of the debate. I mean if we use the logic of some here we may as well close parliament. Thoses that want to live in a world of pink fluffy clouds where no one disagrees etc are a tad nieve in my opinion. Healthy debate is good, differences of opion are good ,isn't it how we learn from eachother?? Your always have thoses ppl in life who's egos know no bounds, but like bad smells if ignored they dissappear. Stiffening Healthy debate and over moderating is not healthy whichever way you want to look at it. 

I’ve only just moored (Pyes Mill to Womack Dyke - no stops) and been in a position to respond to this, so apologies if it’s a little late.  Not all of the information was in the public domain.  The boat can easily be identified by any Broads boat nerds as a Connoisseur.  The number and name are not on show on the pictures I’ve seen, so it could have come from Richardson’s or Woods.  That was all that was public knowledge.

There was plenty of speculation on FB, someone even suggesting that it was from Ferry Marine.  The same person also professed to know why the accident had occurred, before any information had appeared in the newspapers.

Frankly, debating speculation is utterly pointless.  Arriving at conclusions without facts on which to base them will only provoke unwelcome comments and give cause to the mods to intervene, as they already have.

All too often social media tries and finds guilty before facts are known.  There have been several occasions this year that spring to mind, two of which were when boats have run aground on Breydon Water, which provoked much discussion, resulting in pointless calls for compulsory training for hire crews, which would simply kill the industry.

It appears we now know the reasons for this sinking, by published responses allegedly from relatives of the crew,  but whether we ever know why something metal should have been submerged, I don’t know.

I would rather this remain a friendly Forum with contributions from many members, rather than one where the only folk who contribute regularly are a couple of opinionated members, which does seem to be the case elsewhere.  We know the rules, so maybe best to just abide by them.

[Bytheriver]

Latest news from Yard via EDP

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/five-rescued-from-sinking-herbert-woods-boat-norfolk-9279664

[Hylander]

Be good to know this boat has been recovered.  I suppose I could drive down the road and find out but not much point if it has gone.    I am more concerned for the family that have had their holiday ruined.    If it was a HW boat as said then when we had someone ram us while moored many many moons ago HW gave us Brilliant Light for the week with no extra charge.   They are brilliant in these circumstances.

 

Just seen the post above mine.   I will go and take a look see as not being moved until Tuesday.

It just shows that in a split second an accident (and that is what the word accident means) can absolutely devastate someone's life.    So pleased it all turned out well, and as said above I know they will be looked after magnificently by HW.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I just wonder where Hemsby broad is? A new one on me.Good old EDP.

[Wussername]

 Might help to plug a  few "holes"

 

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/five-rescued-from-sinking-herbert-woods-boat-norfolk-9279664

[OldBerkshireBoy]

4 hours ago, Wussername said:

OBB. Have you ever been inside a boat which has been submerged ? 

Haha, I sense a leading question, however I have been on such a boat and in a flooded underground plantroom where we needed the services of a diver.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

2 hours ago, Bytheriver said:

Latest news from Yard via EDP

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/five-rescued-from-sinking-herbert-woods-boat-norfolk-9279664

Good Post that’s answered a lot questions and stopped speculation 👍👍👍

[FlyingFortress]

2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

I’ve only just moored (Pyes Mill to Womack Dyke - no stops) and been in a position to respond to this, so apologies if it’s a little late.  Not all of the information was in the public domain.  The boat can easily be identified by any Broads boat nerds as a Connoisseur.  The number and name are not on show on the pictures I’ve seen, so it could have come from Richardson’s or Woods.  That was all that was public knowledge.

There was plenty of speculation on FB, someone even suggesting that it was from Ferry Marine.  The same person also professed to know why the accident had occurred, before any information had appeared in the newspapers.

Frankly, debating speculation is utterly pointless.  Arriving at conclusions without facts on which to base them will only provoke unwelcome comments and give cause to the mods to intervene, as they already have.

All too often social media tries and finds guilty before facts are known.  There have been several occasions this year that spring to mind, two of which were when boats have run aground on Breydon Water, which provoked much discussion, resulting in pointless calls for compulsory training for hire crews, which would simply kill the industry.

It appears we now know the reasons for this sinking, by published responses allegedly from relatives of the crew,  but whether we ever know why something metal should have been submerged, I don’t know.

I would rather this remain a friendly Forum with contributions from many members, rather than one where the only folk who contribute regularly are a couple of opinionated members, which does seem to be the case elsewhere.  We know the rules, so maybe best to just abide by them.

May I politely suggest that you stop reading FB. 

I do not that is why I come here for anything Broads related.

FB is not NBN.

NBN is moderated and while I don't always agree with the Moderation on here at least there is SOME control.

FB is a platform I have never been on nor desire to read .

[FlyingFortress]

Sounds like they hit the submerged buttress of haddiscoe bridge.

Poor guys.

As I speculated earlier, it would have been near impossible for them to know unless VERY familiar with the area.

No need for enhanced tuition, viewing instruction videos or enforced certification.

Just an accident.

Glad everyone got off safely as that is a very bad place to have an incident .