End Of Season Retirements

[andyg]

1 hour ago, Graham47 said:

The mould lay ups were done a Brundall (A lot of the time out in the open air.) I seem to remember Langford Snr telling me that he couldn’t get planning permission to lay up the moulds at the St Olaves yard. St Olaves was where Alpha Craft was originally started by his father. At that time the fleet were all wooden boats which were built within the boat shed there. When his father died Langford Snr took over and expanded the business, selling off the wooden boats and introducing his now famous GRP boats. He had a boat builder that used to fit the boats out at St Olaves. 
 

Cheers for the info Graham 👍 

[floydraser]

Thanks for this thread. I'd better get my finger out and get mine properly on the market. 

[andyg]

2 hours ago, Mouldy said:

Maybe the cost of keeping so many old boats in a condition that keeps them fit for hire, against the returns is just not cost effective.

New engines, upgrades to the interiors etc. all cost, combined with  material supply issues within the industry, coupled with labour costs for refurbishment, turnaround cleaning and service costs not to mention tolls, make keeping them in a fleet, just too expensive.

Lets be fair, they’ll still have the biggest fleet on The Broads even when all these have been taken out of service.

Very low margins to be made out of some of the older fleet. I said two years ago that they would start moving away from the budget end of the market. You only had listen to what Greg Mundford was saying about the platinum fleet and how well it was doing for them. Things definitely seem to be changing at richardsons especially since Bobby passed away and now Clive has gone. But that's progress I guess. 

[DAVIDH]

2 minutes ago, andyg said:

Very low margins to be made out of some of the older fleet.

I hear what you say about an older fleet Andy, and I'm sure they are more expensive to keep going than the newer shinier examples. But those newer shinier craft have a capital cost to be paid off over a number of years. The older ones will have been paid for many years ago, so the only ongoing costs are the maintenance charges I guess. Of course, what we cannot tell is whether their current state is acting as a a detriment to bookings, but for 2023 especially I would have thought there will be many parties who are prepared to trade down, or maybe not get a Broads fix at all. 

[andyg]

I'm all for them keeping the older boats David. Things have also changed at Hemsby David. They are definitely going more upmarket there. We use it for holidays with our youngest granddaughter she loves it there. Sadly I can now get a better deal from havens at hopton and seashore so we have moved on unfortunately. 

[Mouldy]

25 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

I hear what you say about an older fleet Andy, and I'm sure they are more expensive to keep going than the newer shinier examples. But those newer shinier craft have a capital cost to be paid off over a number of years. The older ones will have been paid for many years ago, so the only ongoing costs are the maintenance charges I guess. Of course, what we cannot tell is whether their current state is acting as a a detriment to bookings, but for 2023 especially I would have thought there will be many parties who are prepared to trade down, or maybe not get a Broads fix at all. 

I think there’s more to consider than just the obvious costs.  Turning round a large fleet has resource requirements in areas of the marketplace where there are shortfalls, like cleaners and other turnaround staff, not to mention engineers who have so many craft to check weekly.  A smaller fleet, equates to less people required.  During the winter months, more attention can be focused on the premium fleet, bringing those vessels back to the condition that hirers have a right to expect for the hire charges asked.

It appears that new builds have been outsourced to yards where they have capacity to take on the work.  It saves trying to employ boat builders, when there is a shortage anyway and the builds being done elsewhere are probably being done on fixed rate contracts, in a marketplace where costs and supply are volatile.

At the end of the day, it could be that after so many years being seen as a budget priced fleet, Richardson’s are trying to elevate their perceived situation in a shrinking market, without the distraction that the older craft generate.

[MargeandParge]

The best profit seems to be large boats with small crews. So much less wear and tear on everything including pumps,decor and upholstery. 

The boats seem to be charged for by size now and not per head as they used to be.

Regards Marge and Parge 

 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

26 minutes ago, MargeandParge said:

 The boats seem to be charged for by size now and not per head as they used to be.

Regards Marge and Parge 

 

Did charging by the number of people onboard really take place?

[MargeandParge]

I think so people always used to pay more for boats that would accommodate more crew.

Regards Marge and Parge 

[DAVIDH]

There's nothing wrong with deciding to appeal more to those who can afford better craft (as Faircraft did a while ago), and I can see the logic of newer craft = less breakdowns and refurbishment. It just seems an odd time to go for it when the pips are about to be squeaked. I think I remember Andy saying he noticed Broadsman type boats still in the yard available to hire when he took over his boat - something that was unheard of. Plus, all those new boats will have been planned and built on the back of a continuing hire revenue stream that (probably) included money from some of the boats that are being decommissioned. Is this what UK business has come to - don't expand - consolidate or contract your business so that you can cope with all the current shortages? No wonder as a nation we're suffering a lack of productivity. 

[andyg]

16 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

There's nothing wrong with deciding to appeal more to those who can afford better craft (as Faircraft did a while ago), and I can see the logic of newer craft = less breakdowns and refurbishment. It just seems an odd time to go for it when the pips are about to be squeaked. I think I remember Andy saying he noticed Broadsman type boats still in the yard available to hire when he took over his boat - something that was unheard of. Plus, all those new boats will have been planned and built on the back of a continuing hire revenue stream that (probably) included money from some of the boats that are being decommissioned. Is this what UK business has come to - don't expand - consolidate or contract your business so that you can cope with all the current shortages? No wonder as a nation we're suffering a lack of productivity. 

There was certainly other platinum fleet boats available that day David. We tried to change broadsman to a commodore, but unfortunately that class wasn't. There must be a good business case for the fancy posh hire boats as I see there will definitely be a 2nd fair regal next season. Now that is a boat I thought might struggle to let. But nope she's flown off the shelf...

[rightsaidfred]

There are simple fundamentals to running a business, 1 you expand or shrink according to your market you cannot stand still, 2 you cut your cloth according to supply and demand, in most cases the only people with sufficent knowledge of the requirements are the owners of said business.

Fred  

[oldgregg]

I'm glad to see my favourites (Contessa and Major Gem 2) have got another year at least... Not surprised the Melodys are staying as well, they always seem to be out on hire.

As for the Entrepeneurs... I have hired Highland Gem 2 and it was without doubt the worst handling boat I have ever hired. But I do think it's a shame that those are going as both the 38 and 44ft are spacious and affordable boats suitable for large family groups.

I think that's strategic though, as it'll push people towards a Broadsman. The official line seems to be that 'stag' type boats are a lot of trouble, and the recent incidents will be cited as evidence of this. I suspect that might not be the whole truth though as no-one is going to tell customers "we just want to nudge you towards the pricier stuff".

A turnaround costs the same whether the boat is going out for £3,000 or £500. So it makes commercial sense to get the most return for that cost, really. New boats are expensive to add, but they seem to be letting well.

 

[Heron]

Reducing the size of the fleet opens up other opportunites for the base at Stalham perhaps, subject to planning consent. With land based accommodation seemingly doing quite well, if I was a gambling man I would change to some static units for hire or for sale similar to another nearby yard.

[DAVIDH]

40 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

in most cases the only people with sufficent knowledge of the requirements are the owners of said business.

Yes but without speculation, what would there be to chat about on these closing weeks of the season. 

[Wussername]

I have found it very interesting to read that some boat yards are in the process of reducing the size of their hire fleet .  For some of the smaller boat yards it will be an opportunity to increase the size of their fleet or which would seem most likely that of replacing a boat that contributes little to whatever small profit stream exists. In reality the small yards have diminished rapidly to have little influence on the overall picture.

It is therefore reasonable to expect the majority of these boats to be sold into the private sector. To those who are wealthy.

 What is wealth, how do you define it. One way I suppose is to state that they have a disposable income to spend on a style of life, a dream, something after a long and arduous period of work. The boat will be seen as a sound investment, an achievement, a just reward for sacrifices made.

The financial impact will be recognised. But this impact is always the same. It constantly changes, even more so during these unsettling times. This could well result in a sluggish period for boat sales. Only time will tell.

Some of you have spoken knowledgably as to why boat yards sell some off their assets so I do not wish to elaborate further.

There is an aspect of all this which does not seem to have been recognised or even discussed. Now before I go any further I am reminded of “ the wise old owl who sat in an oak. The more he heard, the less he spoke, the less he spoke, the more he heard. He became a wise old bird”. If my contribution seems somewhat disjointed then I will play the old age card, without hesitation, that of confusion.

Times they are a changing. Even more so with regard to The Broads National Park. Changes in some part brought about by more than one dreadful incident . The Marine Accident Incident Board focused on one such incident. The MAIB investigation highlighted several areas of concern. The Broads Authority were wrong footed. The MAIB conclusions reverberated throughout Broadland. Recommendations were made, with regard to procedures and design of boats. Recommendations without  authority but carry great weight by those who consider with authority.

The boating fraternity, hire or private will become accustomed to different organisations, like the MAIB for example. For the hirer, the private boat owner, will be mindful of the BHBF. ( Broads Hire Boat Federation) .

Also.

The BM. British Marine.

 The other which may attract your attention is the QAB. (The Quality Accredited Boatyard Scheme)  Run by, guess who? The BHBF.

The BHBF is affiliated to BM.

The BA (Broads Authority if you have lost the plot) The BA have announced that the QAB will be a mandatory requirement for all hire boat licensing.

So. BA (bless), BHBF, BM and the QAB seem to fly in formation.

Where do the hire fleets sit within this arena. Not very comfortably I suggest.

They may well be required to make drastic changes with regard to trial runs, the design of boats, new and alteration to existing to conform to new legislation.

Some craft will be considered not viable to conform and will be sold or otherwise disposed.

Your private boat? Fear not. For the immediate future. For the time being. Insurance companies will insure you. But they will be aware of your obligation to provide a safe environment for your guest, your family, your friend. You may have to demonstrate that you have made a provision for their safety.

Andrew

Old Wussername

 

 

 

 

[rightsaidfred]

20 minutes ago, DAVIDH said:

Yes but without speculation, what would there be to chat about on these closing weeks of the season. 

Trouble with speculation is the damage it could do to a business.

Fred

[Captain]

I see atleast two of the boats on the sales list are still on hire at the moment for 23 year as David mentioned.  San Diego for example already has 16 weeks booked on it for next season so  no shortage of demand for some of these old timers. Therefore may still be three Entrepreneurs on hire next season San Lucia, Diego and Elena

Neil 

[Broads01]

I think there is some misconception on this thread that Richardson's are focussing fully on premium boats. That's not the case - you only have to look at the volume of Bountys, Horizons, Ocean 30s, DC30s and the rest to see there's plenty of older, cheaper boats still available. Long may that continue.

[Captain]

Indeed,  although Richardsons have around 70 platinum fleet boats that will still leave 120 odd classic boats including roughly 50 Bountys 30- 44s and 10 Horizons. 

Neil 

[andyg]

11 hours ago, Broads01 said:

I think there is some misconception on this thread that Richardson's are focussing fully on premium boats. That's not the case - you only have to look at the volume of Bountys, Horizons, Ocean 30s, DC30s and the rest to see there's plenty of older, cheaper boats still available. Long may that continue.

I say this as a loyal repeat customer of Richardson's. I personally feel they are stretching the term platinum, in some cases. The old alpha designs, bolero suncharm broads harmony etc. Are hardly of platinum quality anymore. I'm sorry if that upsets anyone it's just an honest opinion. The classic fleet offers ( or did ) very good value for money in terms of getting out on the rivers at a reasonable price and with a good standard of basic accommodation and long may that continue. There's absolutely doubt in my mind there has been a change in direction at richardsons. I totally believe they are going for a quality over quantity approach. Better spec boats that demand high tariffs offering them a better yield on there investment. It's exactly what they have been doing at Hemsby. At the end of the day the business needs to evolve to survive. The broads are becoming a niche holiday destination so quality will always win through. 

[Cheesey69]

Has anyone noticed a downward trend to services provided to boaters in general?

I’m on the southern Broads and getting diesel was a lot harder than past years. 
Some yards only sell to berth holders, others understandably was serving their fleet and one after 11 o’clock when the day boats had gone. 
a bit easier on the northern rivers but a bit more hassle like waiting in a queue in very narrow waters. 
Just a thought as marginal profits are made on pump outs and diesel will these slowly disappear?

[Davydine]

48 minutes ago, andyg said:

I say this as a loyal repeat customer of Richardson's. I personally feel they are stretching the term platinum, in some cases. The old alpha designs, bolero suncharm broads harmony etc. Are hardly of platinum quality anymore. I'm sorry if that upsets anyone it's just an honest opinion. 

I have to agree with you, we hired Bolero in April and it was a lovely boat, but not in the same league as some of the newer platinum fleet.

[andyg]

8 minutes ago, Davydine said:

I have to agree with you, we hired Bolero in April and it was a lovely boat, but not in the same league as some of the newer platinum fleet.

In the case of bolero, I think she's about the only one of that design and age on hire that hasn't had the upper seating retro fitted. Bit of a trick missed there IMHO. Quite a few of them could really do with a really good compound and polish and some upgrades inside. If your gonna call them platinum and charge platinum tariffs, then make them stand out. Just my veiw....

[RS2021]

The oldest RC45s will be 12 years old next season. Hardly 'new' anymore. If you are aiming for the premium market you have to constantly keep on top of you fleet and keep building new boats as well as maintaining existing ones. Don't build any for a couple of years and all your boats are two years older. Richardsons clearly have a business plan, but I suspect the couple of years of no build will take some catching up.