Gas To Liquid (gtl) Diesel

[Cheesey69]

Hi all,

Richardson's have been for some time using what is in effect, an artificial diesel substitute 

Its supposed to burn cleaner, non harming to the environment and last longer than the normal stuff. Due to the small window available to use their pumps, I haven't used much of it but I can see that changing in the future.

I run a BMC 1.5 and I was wondering does this stuff attack seals or indeed bad for the engine? cant find much on the internet so I thought I'll ask the hive mind.

When I did use it, it was on another BMC that gave up it's life due to a failed timing tensioner.

[Vaughan]

11 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

When I did use it, it was on another BMC that gave up it's life due to a failed timing tensioner.

At least I don't suppose that had anything to do with the fuel!

The Bedford MK lorries in the Army had multi fuel engines which were diesel, but would run on paraffin or petrol if required.  There was just a widget, for changing the metering of the injector pump.  I didn't believe a diesel would run on petrol, but it does!

So my guess would be, give it a go and see how it runs.  If it makes a bit of smoke, it is quite easy to advance or retard the pump on a 1.5, which can also make it easier to start.  If it starts knocking or hunting, that is more serious and would need a specialist pump servicing company, to meter the injector pump for the new fuel.

[andyg]

Spent many an hour behind the wheel of an Mk and MJ Bedford Vaughan. You are indeed correct ours were multi fuel use. I believe our squadron had some land rover's that were as well. But I'm not 100% on that as I rarely drove them. Towards the end of my time our new 6leg TM Bedfords were multi fuel use. What fantastic trucks they were. DOH !! THREAD DRIFT ALERT...LOL.

[stumpy]

A mate used to minicab in a diesel Morris Oxford estate with a mighty throbbing BMC  - that did quite well on central heating oil. 😉

[BroadAmbition]

I've been reading up on this stuff, apparently it can be used in diesel engine on its own or mixed with Dyno diesel with no modifications whatsoever.  It is supposed to burn much cleaner with hardly any pollution and has a higher cetane rating too.  Of course it is slightly more expensive - No surprise there then.  But - it's made from natural gas, and we all know just how cheap and plentiful the supply of that stuff is nowadays

Griff

[Vaughan]

20 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

I've been reading up on this stuff, apparently it can be used in diesel engine on its own or mixed with Dyno diesel with no modifications whatsoever.

Thanks for that, I hadn't heard of it. So if it's from natural gas it's still a fossil fuel then.

"Here we go round the mulberry bush"!

[Smoggy]

Does it have the same lubrication properties as diesel? If not there's going to be a few injector pump issues cropping up.

I was always of the understanding a bosch pump will be fine on veg oil where a cav/delphi pump will weld itself solid fairly quickly on it so the same may go for GTL with no additives.

[Vaughan]

43 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Does it have the same lubrication properties as diesel? If not there's going to be a few injector pump issues cropping up.

I was always of the understanding a bosch pump will be fine on veg oil where a cav/delphi pump will weld itself solid fairly quickly on it so the same may go for GTL with no additives.

Exactly what I was thinking!

Injector pumps are lubricated by diesel.  A modern common rail pump, as well as the old fashioned "jerk" pump (which is really the same thing)  is so finely machined that if you simply pick up one of the little pistons in your fingers and put it down again, the salt in your skin will have ruined it. 

[MauriceMynah]

Richardsons hire fleet has been using it for a while now. No signs of any problems there.

[Tractorted]

We are just back from two weeks on Swan rapture ( still working my way through a write up) & was speaking to the Richardsons  guy that fills up the diesel on the last morning about the new fuel, part of the reason that they are using it is that it burns cleaner with no fumes but they are finding that it eats the seals on the older diesel engines. I got £28 back from a £150 fuel deposit- don't know if that was down to the new fuel or what, it paid for meals stops on the way back up home.

[kpnut]

48 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Richardsons hire fleet has been using it for a while now. No signs of any problems there.

 

37 minutes ago, Tractorted said:

they are finding that it eats the seals on the older diesel engines.

When I asked the engineers at richardsons, they told me too about the seals on the old engines. And was advised not to use it in my old BMC 1.5. 

I’d like to use it at the moment cos richardsons are charging less for it, (£1.70) than any of the yards are charging for the ‘original’ diesel. But I’ll heed the advice of the long-standing staff at the yard. 

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

 

When I asked the engineers at richardsons, they told me too about the seals on the old engines. And was advised not to use it in my old BMC 1.5. 

Oh!  I wonder if they make prospective purchasers of the craft they’re selling off that irrevocable damage may have occurred to the engine as a result of using fuel in craft to which it may cause damage.

[Meantime]

I believe Norfolk Broads Direct have been using it for a number of years, but then again most of their fleet is relatively new when compared to the older stuff in Richardsons fleet.

[Vaughan]

I wonder what "seals" they are talking about, in the fuel system of a BMC engine?  Wear in the rubber mounting rings of the in-line filter, or perhaps the diaphragm of the lift pump, is not going to wreck the engine.

It would be very interesting to know what, precisely, is suffering wear, and why. 

[Smoggy]

Shaft seal in the injection pump I would think, can wreck an engine it the sump fills up and it "runs away", is the injection pump direct into the engine on the 1.5? I'm sure it was on the 2.52.

If a pump has been rebuilt in the last 5-10 years (possibly longer, I'm guessing) it's likely had viton or similar seals fitted but if an older pump that's not been touched another matter.

The same seals will have problems with ethanol content of modern pump diesel too, in the racor copy filters I've fitted I changed all the seals for viton just in case the chinese were using crap rubber.

[eddybear]

Thanks for the heads up on the diesel supplied by some of the yards, I will only be filling up at my own yard if possible as I trust the diesel they are using, it's a bit like classic cars that unless they have been converted to run on E10 You have to use the super grade old E5 Which is more expensive of course or risk failure of rubber piping seals etc And then of course we have the modern road diesel with higher sulphur content, still no bloody good for our old BMC Marine engines.

 

 

[kpnut]

They said something about injection. It went over my head!

[kpnut]

4 hours ago, Tractorted said:

finding that it eats the seals on the older diesel engines.

I got the impression it wasn’t the engine as such, so perhaps no worries regarding Mouldy’s post, but that they’d had to buy a large stock of seals and were replacing them on the boats as and when needed. 

Maybe they are now fitting, and I could buy these seals that Smoggy mentioned and then ok to use the new stuff?

[rightsaidfred]

I cant remember the details now but there was an issue a few years ago with the seales on older pumps BMC etc leaking with the change from neat diesel to bio.

Fred

[annv]

Hi Fred there should be no problem with GTO fuel as its carbon based unlike the F A M E based diesel that has vegetable based products added ie Palm oil, it will not swell the rubber seals on older engines that the F A M E based diesel could. It  will make starting better on cold days as it's Cetain number is higher along with reduced/no risk of diesel bug contamination and longer shelf life, the only miner concerns is it wont have the lubrication property's that the old high content sulphur diesel had, but as they have removed the sulphur from diesel for some time now with no apparent problems. John