A Lesson For All Of Us

[Hylander]

Mods remove please if not ok for this site.

I saw this yesterday and it really brought home the dangers of boating when someone falls in.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcA2G4jb6G8

 

[Ray]

Thanks for posting that, it's hard to watch but a very important reminder to us all about how easily things can go wrong and get worse.

[dom]

I saw that one a week or two back. She's very lucky to have come out of it, as it bears a marked resemblance to the GY yacht station incident.

The bit which I find more than a little disconcerting is at 7:00 in the video where he says "ever since, I've been wondering if I could have handled the situation better". There is no if about it. His response was wrong and, harsh as it may sound, he needs to recognise as much. The response to someone overboard should always be to cut the throttle (and possibly the engine) until you're certain of the exact situation.

[Hylander]

44 minutes ago, dom said:

I saw that one a week or two back. She's very lucky to have come out of it, as it bears a marked resemblance to the GY yacht station incident.

The bit which I find more than a little disconcerting is at 7:00 in the video where he says "ever since, I've been wondering if I could have handled the situation better". There is no if about it. His response was wrong and, harsh as it may sound, he needs to recognise as much. The response to someone overboard should always be to cut the throttle (and possibly the engine) until you're certain of the exact situation.

I know we can all be wise after the event but hopefully (God forbid this should ever happen) we would always cut the throttle immediately, never mind about other boats of anything else, just cut that engine.

[dom]

46 minutes ago, Hylander said:

I know we can all be wise after the event but hopefully (God forbid this should ever happen) we would always cut the throttle immediately, never mind about other boats of anything else, just cut that engine.

I think it's also a good opportunity to reiterate something to private owners. If you've not got a throwing line on board, please consider getting one. If someone goes overboard when you're under way, it makes it far easier to recover them from the water without having to resort to propulsion.

[addicted]

I watched that video with growing disbelief at how silly that man must be. Even now with the benefit of hindsight  It apparently still hasn't dawned on him that what he did  -  or rather didn't do, nearly cost his wife her life or at the very least her limb.  They  don't seem to be newbies  so I can't understand how he didn know that the first reaction to someone overboard is cut the engine. I'm sorry if I seem to be excessively judgemental but I'm absolutely horrified. I have some experience of this type of situation.  Many years ago while cruising the RGO we attempted to moor on a bankside spot beween  Brownshill lock and St. Ives. As  I landed the bank gave way and a large chunk of it plus me went into the river! Tony immediately cut the engine and leapt off onto  another part of the bank . I was by this time laying in the water on my back alongside the waterline of  our boat. He leant over and in one massive pulll yanked me out of the water. (He was a lot younger and I was a lot lighter in those days) I remember I was immensely proud of the fact that I didn't let go of my rope! !

 

Carole

[Ray]

Yes it is an instinct we all drill into ourselves "first,cut the engine" Glad that you were OK Carole, and well done for keeping hold of the rope!

I think, from his description of the accident, that the first nightmare scenario that flashed before his eyes was of the lady being crushed between the concrete bank and the hull followed by the second nightmare scenario involving the prop. Split second decision based on his immediate perception of danger I guess?

I suspect he will be feeling bad over his action for the rest of his life, I feel sorry for them both, it really was a bad situation to be caught in. Thank goodness she survived without loss of limb.

[RumPunch]

Yet when you see holiday makers, being let out off the back of a hireboat in a rubber ring, towed behind, then hauled in to swap passenger AND you call the hireyard to report it, only to be told they are not interested

Oh, and no bouyancy aids either

[Paladin]

On 28/05/2024 at 15:06, dom said:

I think it's also a good opportunity to reiterate something to private owners. If you've not got a throwing line on board, please consider getting one. If someone goes overboard when you're under way, it makes it far easier to recover them from the water without having to resort to propulsion.

Then practice using it on dry land first! It's not as easy as it might first appear. It's thrown underarm, for greater accuracy and distance. And when you recover the line, don't try to coil it back into the bag. Counterintuitively, you just stuff it in. There is a video here of Norfolk Fire and Rescue practicing the drill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pm8PwjoyfQ&t=10s 

And another, using a horseshoe buoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P45Ihmph9Hs&t=0s

 

[Karizma]

Thanks for sharing - scary !

I for one don't have a Throwing Line on the boat, so have just ordered one that can be placed near the helm, so if ever needed, I'll be the one turning the engine off and then throwing it ...........

[Bikertov]

On 28/05/2024 at 15:06, dom said:

I think it's also a good opportunity to reiterate something to private owners. If you've not got a throwing line on board, please consider getting one. If someone goes overboard when you're under way, it makes it far easier to recover them from the water without having to resort to propulsion.

Any recommendations for size and length to get for a throwing line ?

I do have a life ring and line on board, but the line is a bit past it's useful life so could do with being replaced  

[dom]

28 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Any recommendations for size and length to get for a throwing line ?

I do have a life ring and line on board, but the line is a bit past it's useful life so could do with being replaced  

Personally, I'd probably go around the 20m mark for river use. I think most are 8mm, but even 6mm would generally be fine in non-tidal waters. Ultimately, anything's better than nothing, so opt for a 15m if cost's an issue - it could still save a life.

My dad went overboard at Oulton Broad whilst we were racing. The problem we had on that occasion was a 30ft yacht isn't easy to manouver, even with the benefit of sails. We didn't have a line to use and it got very near the mark, as he was starting to tire in the cold water. Fortunately, there's always a safety boat on hand, who managed to effect a rescue, but if they'd not been there, the outcome could have been very different.

Do also think about how to get people back on board. A member of my family went overboard recently from their relatively new to them boat and it didn't prove easy to get them back onboard. It's worth just taking a few minutes to consider what you'd do in an emergency. Ideally, you want a rescue or boarding ladder, but it's also possible to drop a U shaped loop of mooring line down and tie off to give the person in the water a step to lift against.

[Karizma]

2 hours ago, Bikertov said:

Any recommendations for size and length to get for a throwing line ?

I've just ordered a Seago MOB Rescue Throw Line with a 30m x 6mm Floating Line

[BroadAmbition]

I hope her husband / the helm realises just how close they came to a very different outcome - Surely it should be common sense to disengage drive immediately? - Beggars belief

Anyroadup we already have onboard a life ring with a long floating rope ready to deploy instantly, a MOB recovery ladder also capable of being deployed in seconds, we also have a heaving line that I can throw accurately far further than any throwing rope

More importantly our onboard crew KNOW what to do in the event as they have always been briefed prior to sailing

Griff

 

[MauriceMynah]

OK, we all know DISENGAGE OR SWITCH OFF ENGINE. But in fairness here we sit at our respective keyboards muttering to ourselves that this is what we would do, but we are not in that situation. 

Panic makes one do odd things. The helmsman reacted to the danger of crushing over the danger of the prop. Two real dangers, either of which being  possibly fatal.

Narrow boats and broads cruisers are a bit different in respect of weights and environments leading to different possibilities for injuries or fatalities.  I'm not saying he acted correctly but I think he does not deserve the somewhat critical response he is getting. 

Respect to the pair of them for going so public and risking reactions such as  have been shown here.

I like to think that if I saw a person in the water, I'd do the right thing in the right way, but in the heat of the moment, can I be sure?

[garryn]

Exactly my thoughts. He could have quite easily have "done the right thing" and turned the engine off then crush his wife between the concrete bank and boat. 

[Bikertov]

This is a valuable discussion.

While it may be obvious what to do for a lot of you guys, I'm not an experienced helmsman, so may not have thought to cut the engine

Now I do know, and will also be replacing the line on my life ring and getting a throwing line.

[Gracie]

Very valuable discussion Biker. Who knows how we would react in a situation like that. I know to cut the engine but I think absolute horror and panic would set in if it was one of my boys, with those feelings running riot through your head, how on earth do you be calm enough to do the right thing

I feel so sorry for them both

Grace x

[William92]

Let's not rely on common sense. Common sense is acquired through experience, and we can't rely on everyone having had the same experience (and in this particular type of situation, a lot of people with this experience may well never wish to think about it again, let alone make a video about it and admit possible ) 

The main thing he says, that I quoted about 5 6 drafts ago and have since lost while redrafting, is something about stepping back, getting a small situation under control, and trying again - rather than trying to fix a small situation and possibly ending up in a big situation.

Yes, do have an idea what you will do with the boat if someone falls in¹ or some other disaster² but really, just make sure the crew and yourself are confident to go "let's reset and try again" for otherwise routine tasks - you're usually having a nice break if you're on the Broads, don't give yourself artificial pressure. Even if you're desperate to make it for the tide, a few minutes here or there is really not the end of the world...

¹ And what they will do. That should be briefed rather than trusting in common sense. (I believe the Skippers Manual provided with hire boats, at least, has some instruction on this. I don't think they will ever not have this information in now, given the dreadful incident at GYYS)

² Something beyond your reasonable control, like the engine packing in across Breydon Water.

[Hylander]

At the end of the day , the couple making the video have actually done us all a big favour and made us aware of how accidents happen.     It is so easy to always think , this would never happen to me.    

[webntweb]

On 29/05/2024 at 14:54, RumPunch said:

Yet when you see holiday makers, being let out off the back of a hireboat in a rubber ring, towed behind, then hauled in to swap passenger AND you call the hireyard to report it, only to be told they are not interested

Oh, and no bouyancy aids either

And not just hireboats. I have a clip of a family on a private boat doing exactly what RumPunch describes. I would have attached it but it may breach forum rules as it shows the boats name and clear pictures of some of the crew.

[dom]

3 hours ago, MauriceMynah said:

Narrow boats and broads cruisers are a bit different in respect of weights and environments leading to different possibilities for injuries or fatalities.  I'm not saying he acted correctly but I think he does not deserve the somewhat critical response he is getting.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, if it weren't for one thing - the fact he appears not to have recognised his own culpability in the situation.

It may not be immediately obvious to people who've not spent time around locks, but the whole situation appears to have arisen in the first place from a locking technique which appears rushed to start with. The usual technique is that the helm passes out of the lock, pulls in bankside and holds the boat on a centre line, waiting patiently for their crew to set the lock and get back on board free from undue pressure.

The technique in this case seems to have been to hover around the lock exit, whilst his wife takes a leap of faith onto an insecure boat keeping station by application of power. That's slightly elevating the risk to start with but, if you listen to the whole video, he kind of half admits (about 4:10) that he put undue pressure on his wife. She then rushed and fell, but he was focussed on the front end of the boat, rather than his crew member.

The argument about risk of crushing seems a bit spurious to me. A trad-stern narrowboat reversing into a quay heading will have a fairly small contact point and it'd almost certainly be relatively easy to escape out either side. There was also another person on hand who was clearly in a position to intervene, and the "button" fender usually provides a degree of gap at the stern anyway (usually needed for the rudder).

If the whole video was "I stupidly did the wrong thing doing X" and "I panicked and did Y, which was completely wrong" then he'd have my complete respect and support for taking it on the chin and admitting his own errors to benefit others. I'm not sure that's how I read the whole thing though. There's a lot of "Marianne did this" type comments, which I think is him (possibly sub-consciously) transferring some of the blame. He made at least 3 errors from the way I interpret things, and I'm not sure he accepted blame for any of them.

Reading between the lines, it seems it was also a winter incident and crew were not wearing lifejackets. It's a difficult call with canals, as half the time they're very shallow, so debatable whether they're needed. I do however strongly believe that once winter comes around, it adds another element of danger which dictates that jackets ought to be worn, but especially when passing through locks where, as in this case, the water is often deeper (in reality, few people do). Obviously, no-one can really say, but it sounds like there's a possibility the outcome might have been less severe if she'd been held on the surface away from running gear by a jacket.

 

[grendel]

On 30/05/2024 at 01:11, BroadAmbition said:

More importantly our onboard crew KNOW what to do in the event as they have always been briefed prior to sailing

on lads week we are extensively briefed on what to do in a man overboard situation, on one occasion we actually had such a situation, when someone stepped between two boats just as one moved away, I can say everyone passed step 1 in Griffs instructions (if you see someone fall overboard, point to them in the water and dont lose sight of them), well 11 people all pointed to the poor member of lads week that went in, while nobody actually moved to assist (well for about 5 seconds anyway) the overall procedures worked though and within a short time the person had been rescued and hauled aboard the other boat (we would have needed to reverse back to get him, so we kept well clear, and recovered him from the other boat after a further couple of minutes. no damage was done and we all had a good laugh about it later in the pub.

it did indicate though that the training had taken root and everyone knew the correct MOB drill.