Horning Ferry Service Ceases

[Oddfellow]

Hi Andy, what about the people who own the pub, could they help at all, as it could benefit them by giving them extra customers brining in more revinue?. I know the Broads pubs are struggling as well, but i would imagine with the chance of extra customers, it would be worth that little bit of extra investment.

The fact is that it is too onerous and expensive to run this service any more. We've spoken to the Ferry Inn about it and, whilst there's interest, it is not consiered to be viable.

We're hoping to sell the vessel in the near future as I can't justify keeping it any more and there are some interested parties.

If anybody wants to form a trust or something to keep it going, great. That may be the only way it can continue. But, sadly, it's the end of the road now for Freedom and the. We've got too many other things to concentrate on to have time to worry about this.

[Guest]

its a shame the BA cant realise what there doing sometimes ....

Jonny

[marshman]

Hi Jonny - it is of course sad that the ferry operator has brought this to an end but it is not,IMHO, the fault totally of the BA.

Yes I know the tolls are set by them but why should one operator receive a special discounted rate when others have to pay the full rate? Where do you draw the line? I can think of other operations that "deserve" a special rate too if the ferry service does!!

And lets finally knock on the head this fallacy that the BA has introduced "new" regulations. The regulations adopted, I believe, are almost word for word, probably plus a few extra bits, the recommended practice that has been the Inland Waterways Small Passenger Boat Code for many years and that has previously been under the auspices of the MCA. I accept that it has always been a recommended Code of Practice and the BA are now actually going to enforce it. Is that a bad thing when passengers safety could be at risk?

You could of course argue that as it was "recommended" you did not have to abide by it, but to me, if you run that kind of operation, then "recommended" means you should operate within that Code and if you don't then as a business you stand at considerable risk if an accident WERE to happen and you were operating outside that Code.

So whilst I agree the BA can sometimes be at fault, I am not really sure that this is entirely the case here - it may be a contributory factor but other operators are presumably adapting to the Code and complying without blaming the BA?

Nontheless I am sorry that an enterprising yard owner has had to stop any service for any reasons and it is I am afraid, in part, just a sign of the times in which we live.

Sadly.

[Guest]

but it is not,IMHO, the fault totally of the BA.

I have to agree with the "Totally" part of that.

Over the past ten years at least, even though the service was always essentially very seasonal, it was often not running due presumably to insufficient passenger numbers to pay the previous overheads anyway.

Well done to the Operators for running the service as long as they did, but I suspect that although the red tape was seen as the last straw, it's commercial viability was doomed anyway, with wage costs and months of out of commission time.

As a ferry route, it's potential passenger traffic nowadays is very limited, just a few boats moored opposite the Pub, cyclists to Woodbastwick, and Cockshoot boardwalk from the Horning side.

[Guest]

lets just hope the service comes back or trade picks up for it to come back

Jonny

[C.Ricko]

How about you let the customer drive the ferry

[andyfish]

Nice one Clive,I have heard of customer driven business but not customer sailed!

Andy

[Oddfellow]

Clive, Don't think we haven't thought of that, and many, many other loopholes that make an absolute mockery of the regulation.

There have been questions about why should be subsidised and another not. This isn't an arguement - when ferrys are being used essentially as a public service that's promoting sustainable tourism, they should all be subsidised. We should all be working in partnership with the BA on this. The costs to the BA in supporting this in a partnership role are arguably small - what's does it cost to issue a reduced toll to a handfull of boats against the risk of losing the revene completely? Isn't it better to get something rather than nothing?

Services like this need more support.

Andy

[Brian]

We should all be working in partnership with the BA on this. The costs to the BA in supporting this in a partnership role are arguably small - what's does it cost to issue a reduced toll to a handfull of boats against the risk of losing the revene completely? Isn't it better to get something rather than nothing?

Services like this need more support.

Andy

I agree Fully, Hasnt BA engaged in any meetings with you over this ?

Why wont they help ? Surly BA need to come out of the Dark ages over issues like these. To be transparent and to engage !!

[goodall_m1]

Nice one Clive,I have heard of customer driven business but not customer sailed!

Andy

Last year I went into the port of Messalonghi in Greece.

Just south of the marina there is a vehicle ferry (one car at a time) across a narrow channel to a long island west of the channel into the port.

This ferry is user operated, but being a hand cranked chain ferry there isnt a lot that the users can get wrong.

Now perhaps something like that might work at Horning...

But then it is a far busier channel than the one in Greece,

and there is a lot more current than there is tidal flow at Messalonghi.

Hirers have enough problems passing the Redham ferry on the Yare,

without putting a chain ferry across the busy Bure...

[donnygeoff]

Well Clive....

You could make more money out of this......

When a customer is on the phone booking their holiday, get the girls to inform them of the closure of this service, and then recommend they hire a rowing dinghy as well, just in case they have to moor at the opposite side to the amenities..

Bingo, and extra 40 quid for all those who take the offer..

[Oddfellow]

An important message for high season there.....

I believe that the Horning Ferry was once a chain or rope ferry.

[Guest]

I believe that the Horning Ferry was once a chain or rope ferry.

Yes, a chain ferry for vehicles and carts.

I've never seen a photo of it, but Arthur Ransome has a sketch of it from the 1930's.

It appeared that the Ferry Road through Woodbastwick Marshes was a well used route from Horning to Ranworth in those days.

Quite different now though, Ferry Road is a very narrow single track with few passes places and is often flooded. It's now only used by the very few vehicles that visit the boardwalk to Cockshoot Broad, when it's dry.

This is why it is so seasonal, with no longer any "through" pedestrians, just the occasional cyclist, or Pub goer from the moorings opposite.

[diesel falcon]

We ended up on the wrong side of the river when looking at boats!!! thankyou v much sat nag

[quo vadis]

[Mowjo]

We ended up on the wrong side of the river when looking at boats!!! thankyou v much sat nag

Ah Ha! now you know why I call mine a **** Nav

Regards Frank,,,

Ps, I call it something close to Twit but got edited,

[C.Ricko]

Yes, a chain ferry for vehicles and carts.

I've never seen a photo of it, but Arthur Ransome has a sketch of it from the 1930's.

It appeared that the Ferry Road through Woodbastwick Marshes was a well used route from Horning to Ranworth in those days.

Quite different now though, Ferry Road is a very narrow single track with few passes places and is often flooded. It's now only used by the very few vehicles that visit the boardwalk to Cockshoot Broad, when it's dry.

This is why it is so seasonal, with no longer any "through" pedestrians, just the occasional cyclist, or Pub goer from the moorings opposite.

like this..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/C1950-TOPOGRA ... 231d527d3a

[Mowjo]

Clive! your boats have come a long way since then, and I'm glad to see you got rid of that hat,,,

Regards Frank,,,

[C.Ricko]

still got the hat and a bit of chain

[Guest]

That's an interesting photo Clive.

I've searched Google images many times over the years for photos of what the Horning chain ferry looked like.

I would strongly suspect that the photo in the ebay link was wrongly captioned by the original photographer though.

It looks like a pretty standard Norfolk Reed Lighter to me, and the "chain" is some sort of pole, with no chain leading away either. The boat has no seats either. The only actual photo I've seen on the net so far is a very good likeness to Arthur Ransome's drawing in every detail.

I wonder even if that Ebay photo was actually taken at Horning as well, it could just as easily be How Hill !

[C.Ricko]

The river in the photo of the car Ferry does not look wide enough for Horning.

But, I may be wrong

[Guest]

The river in the photo of the car Ferry does not look wide enough for Horning.

But, I may be wrong

The plot thickens !

I think I've done the photographer of the Ebay photo an injustice.

Nigel Pope's Ludham Archive website has a photo of horning ferry in 1915, which shows the boat which I thought was a reed lighter with the exact same Pub sign in the background as the one of the chain ferry, and an identical background.

So now maybe there were two quite different ferries there ?

[Guest]

Further thoughts on my previous post....

The boat in the Ebay photo (on the left) is the same hull shape and size as the Ferry in the Ludham Archive website, but the latter has got fixed arms for sculling oars at each end of the boat, whereas the Ebay photo is a plain hull, being propelled by a quant.

I'm now thinking again that the caption of the Ebay photograph is mis-identification.

Nigel's genuine ferry photo from the Boardman family album has better provenance, and it could be that the ebay photo just looked similar when it was captioned in the old book.

[AdnamsGirl]

The photograph of the pontoon ferry is indeed the one which used to operate at Horning - it went out of use during WW2 after it was hit by a bomb in the air raid of April 1941 (the same raid in which the pub istelf was also destroyed). Here are a couple more photos. The first was taken by John Payne Jennings c1880s/90s.

This one is c1930

The Ebay photo is one that I have seen a few times in different places and has always been attributed as being at Horning - a foot ferry was also operating alongside the chain ferry. The Ebay one is, I believe, usually dated as being post WW2 ... so late 1940s or early 1950s I think. With regard to the foot ferry, Robert Maltser mentions it in his "Norfolk & Suffolk Broads" book and says:

The passenger ferry was a large marshman's punt with a light chain that was hauled hand over hand, a wet, cold operation in the depths of winter; the charge was an old penny, though that often went unpaid when those using it had to haul themselves across the river.

This foot ferry apparently continued to operate until around 1967. I guess that they may have used more than one of these over the years which may explain why it looks different to the one Nigel has dated as 1915.

I am sorting through some 80s and 90s photos for the website at the moment taken by John Chesney and amongst them was this image of a passenger ferry at Horning called the Stanley Arthur. I'm not certain on a date, but going by clothes and hair styles, I think this is probably 1980s. I was going to stick it on the blog to appeal for more information as I hadn't seen a photo of this before.

Carol

[Guest]

Thanks for posting the photos Carol, the additional image of the vehicle ferry confirms that Ransome was basing his illustrations on fact.

I'd never seen the Stanley Arthur, but did say yet another variation briefly around 2004/5. It was a small rigid rib ( a sort of rigid polythene inflatable with a centre console ). It was being driven by a youngish lad. Much smaller than any of the others. I've searched through my picture files, but I don't seem to have taken a single photo of it. (damnit)