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Horning Ferry Service Ceases


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Guest DAYTONA-BILL

Hi Andy, what about the people who own the pub, could they help at all, as it could benefit them by giving them extra customers brining in more revinue?. I know the Broads pubs are struggling as well, but i would imagine with the chance of extra customers, it would be worth that little bit of extra investment.

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Subsidy or Grant.

I know it sounds daft at first glance but if a rusting heap of iron at Yarmouth can have hundreds of thousands in lottery and council money, then why not Horning ferry.

Come up with a strong argument, historic significance, public service, job security, local economy, it might not work but is worth a try.

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Qualifications versus experience?

I, in my day, held RYA instructors certificates for both sailing dinghies ( tidal and racing ) and power boat coxwain.

Having not used these qualifications within the last three years, they are no longer valid, however, the experience gained over thirty years of teaching sailing and power boating and running my own motor cruiser IS still valid.

If hire fleet owners were to require a qualification to be able to hire one of their boats, then my experience would be worth nothing and I would, at my age, not be able to hire a boat without retraining which I would not do.

Ergo, loss of revenue to the fleet owner and loss of a good holiday for me and my wife.

:?:?

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL

An excellent point well made Brian. You CAN`T beat many years of experience at different levels no matter how long is your list of qualifications. I can`t help but think that SOME people put "blind faith" in a certificate of competence, rather than trust in experience. I still say, synacism aside, that so many of these recent legislations would`nt exist if governments did`nt have to "invent" the need for them, be it for the health and safety gestapo, or the need to raise yet more revinue they can then waste.

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I think the main ingredients to the recipe are being left out of the discussion, Training and qualifications are one part, and experience is another but in my view talent and application are possibly the deciding factors. There are countless people who go through experiences and training and draw little from it, then there are those that assimilate the training and draw from the experience, not just in the subject being discussed here but throughout life generally, the drive to learn and apply it all is also a major factor in becoming proficient. Experience is not much use if you don’t have the knowledge to understand what you experience or the drive to make that experience different next time.

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Experience is an accumulation of knowledge, whether that is practical or theoretical.

A mixture of both is essential. Theoretical knowledge is no use without the practical application of that knowledge. Conversely practical knowledge can lead to proper experience without full theoritical knowledge if that makes any sense.

Brian J. :?:?

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To even think that training does not replace experience is rediculous to even imagine. History shows us often that experience alone does not mean you are competent to operate a machine, however, it may give you a fair awareness of other factors that a novice may not consider. Having said that the novice may demonstrate more competent operation and handling because of the training they have received and assimilated.

Oddly I would say that there is definitely a place on the experience curve where you go back and re-visit initial training material, both taking in information that had been 'temporarily forgotten' as well as having a far better of understanding what their initial training was!

Never ever pretend that training is worthless and experience is all that matters as in the world of boats and ships experience is not enough on it's own and type awareness of the craft being operated and combined crew line-training are also very important so that all opearate off the same set of SOP's. I think today is a very good reflection of that as we remember those that died 100 years ago today.

Having been involved in a very serious fire at sea I am glad that I worked for a company that had the procedures it had as less than a month later, a similar sized ship with less passengers suffered a similar fate and sadly many perished. - The difference was entirely due to crew training. Both vessels suffered similar issues with flamable painted surfaces, both fires were started in the same way and both fires took hold in stairwells of similarly designed ships.

However, back on topic, and as I have said before, it is a shame that the service has stopped, but if rules and minima are set out, it is rediculous to think that in this day and age a 'blind-eye' can be turned for the sake of operating a 'service'.

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Experience is an accumulation of knowledge, whether that is practical or theoretical.

A mixture of both is essential. Theoretical knowledge is no use without the practical application of that knowledge. Conversely practical knowledge can lead to proper experience without full theoritical knowledge if that makes any sense.

Brian J. :?:?

No, not really, experience can never teach you certain things like lights, shapes, sound signals, navigation, celestial, or electronic, proven safety procedures procedure et al, they all require training whether formal or informal. Experience is no use unless you learn from it and many people do not, ergo experience is, in isolation of little use. The practical knowlege you allude to must be imparted, which is in effect training. I have many years of experience but I doubt I would be as comfortable as I am on lengthy passages or in potentially tricky situations without the training to back it up. You can't learn navigation simply from experience, you get better at it after you have eperienced aplying what you have learned but how can you experience it if you don't even know how to do it? Even yust reading about it and correctly aplying it is training, self training yes, but training nonetheless. There is also a huge difference between real experience and simply "having done it for a long time".

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Guest DAYTONA-BILL

Well, i`ve ALWAYS been told throughout life that "you learn through experience". I don`t seem to remember ANYBODY saying you learn through training. I`ve got to the age of 53 believing that, and it`s proven to be correct. Not everybody needs to be told how to do something by authority. I think we are living in a very sad, and possibly DANGEROUS society where people believe they can`t think, and act, for themselves.

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Well I really hope for your sake that next time you go to the dentist, doctor, have a gas boiler serviced, get on an aeroplane, have a sick animal, call an ambulance etc etc. that they have learned from their training Neil. What you are saying belitles every form of training from a medical degree and internship to an electrical aprenticeship.

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My thoughts on this.....

Training is essential.

With training you can "learn" different scenarios, and hopefully put them into practice when needed.

But experience AFTER your training is just as good..

A little story....

At the age of 17 I was lucky enough to be put forward by the ATC (Air training corps, or Air cadets if you prefer) to take my PPL (Private Pilots Licence)

One of the excercise was a landing simulating engine failure, In TRAINING, the scenario was caused by the instructor pulling the throttle to idle, and you landing the plane with no use of power. I could not get this right and always at the last second needed power, as I had got set up for the runnway too early and would have landed/crashed just before the tarmac. As this was training, I knew in the back of my mind that I had the power if needed.

The instructor said to me " one more time and this time you will get it right"

on approach to the runway on the final approach, he cut the power, then cut the FUEL. I then knew there was no time to start up again so made the landing.

If I had not had the TRAINING, even though I got it a little wrong, I would not have had the ability to land the plane.

They do say you learn to drive AFTER passing your test, but the training you get before passing your test is essential..

So Training and then later experience, and in some cases with ongoing training are BOTH essential (imho)

:Stinky

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Absolutely Geoff, and I can't agree more about the ongoing training, even at my age I still do it to keep up with developments, in fact just next week I'm off on an advanced NMEA course, I believe my customers deserve it and I know I will learn and be able to provide a better service. Eats into my bottom line but I have developed the business model to support it, something else I learned to do through training. :grin:

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Interesting scenario Geoff and one I can relate too - very early after I gained my PPL and at the age of 19, I had an engine failure in a Cessna 150, was on a downwind leg of the airfield I had just left and was intending a DW departure, so was a little easier as I didnt have to look for a place to pop it down! But like you, I had an excellent instructor in those early days who actually made me carry out precautionary and forced landings properly....

The same goes for boating of any sort, be it a canoe or a mega-yacht, good training is key to effective and safe operation

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Where did you do it Gav,

I did mine at Leicester, one month of flying every day..(well apart from the day that I got grounded... but thats another story)

I was in the air cadets, and one day the CO asked me how many O levels I had, I said 5, he said sign here, your going to Biggin Hill next month for aptitude test and if you pass them the RAF will pay for you to do your PPL.

You could not get me off of the ceiling....

Worst thing was, when I got back after passing it, I failed my driving test the following week....

:Stinky

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I am off to have a crack at some brain surgery tomorrow just to gain a bit of experience you understand, not done any studying,training or been mentored but will just learn as I go :roll:

Well, having been studying in the NHS, seeing one young doctor one friday administering ECT to a Mental Health service user, and then as THE obstetric SHO on the monday.........and making decisions-yes there would be a registrar on call, but obstetrics can change minute to minute, it was rather disconcerting-being expected to trust the guys judgement, yes he had years of training, but absolutely no experience of obstetrics until that day!

I spend weeks in a classroom, training, even in a state of the art virtual auditorium, but the real deal can and often is incredibly different.

Why is it that after weeks boating followed by much less over the winter months, when it comes to simple things such as mooring up, I feel like a total numpty, often messing up-misjudging posts-you name it!

I dont think you can devalue experience-I know the theory, training, call it what you like is vital, but its quite scary how quickly we can deskill without maintaining the level of experience to do a job to the level needed.

Men know how to walk, one foot in front of the other stylie, (generally speaking) but put most of them in a pair of heels and the theory goes out of the window :lol::lol:

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I'm sorry Perry that it didn't go well. When you drilled that hole in my head you apparently missed my brain by 6 feet!

:lol::lol:

No he didn't miss!! It's about 6 feet south for you men isn't it? :party2::party2: Now was it Phalangus major or Phalangus minor??? Thats the question!!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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