Spare fuel storage?

[brandenjg]

Hi everyone

I've been reading through the bss guide and I'm confused about where to store a jerry of spare petrol. I was thinking on the front of the boat as it's outside the cabin but it would also be in direct sunlight.

Any advice would be appreciated

[MBA Marine]

In the front of the boat should be fine as long as they are stowed safely and fixed (strapped) so they cant move about. However i would recommend a second outboard tank, also stowed safely then when you need to you can just unclip one tank connect to the other prime the bulb and your away withou poring petrol from a can.

If you must go down the jerry can route, i would leave them off the boat for your BSS test.

[Guest]

If you must go down the jerry can route, i would leave them off the boat for your BSS test.

...and also leave them off the boat after the BSS test as well !

The advice about a second outboard tank is more likely to pass the BSS and is much safer, as you say.

With Brandenjg's size of boat it would be very difficult to fill the outboard tank from the jerrycan on a deck area where the vapour would spill over the side, so any decanting of fuel into the main tank would have to be done ashore.

Even if done very carefully, with a funnel, and without spilling a drop of the liquid, massive amounts of highly explosive petrol vapour come out of the can and fall invisibly downwards into the bilges of the boat.

The spare second tank has so many other advantages too, they can be obtained in 5 or 3 gallon sizes, metal or plastic, and are quite cheap secondhand on ebay. The fitting can usually be changed cheaply to match the main tank and fuel line connectors. Switching to spare tank can be done quickly and safely afloat, and there is no release of vapour.

Dedicated outboard motor tanks also have less stringent restrictions at petrol stations too, for instance a 5 gallon dedicated plastic outboard tank is allowed, whereas a 5 gallon plastic jerrycan is illegal to be filled in UK petrol s stations, and is often refused.

[senator]

Owning a petrol boat with 640 litre tanks and having the ability to empty them in about 4 hours means we regularly have to carry Gerry cans.

Would totally agree with the spare tank but if it is going.to be exposed to sunlight go for a decent metal one and fit a good quality fuel tap on the outlet attached to the tank. The plastic ones I have had for the dinghy all leak to some extent.

If two tanks is cost prohibitive and you do go for a Gerry can then buy a good quality metal one and also a little piece of equipment called a jiggle syphon.

It is a tube with a brass or aluminium non return ball valve that means you won't spill any petrol, it should however still never be used inside the boat.

We often have 80 litres of petrol in the anchor locker as that is self draining and sealed from the rest of the boat. Still not perfect as it has the motor for the windlass in it, which means we have to go upfront and check for any vapours before switching on the winch to drop or lift the anchor but even with some very rough sea passages we have never had any sort of leak from the cans.

Petrol needs a lot more care than many owners give it. Treat it with the caution it needs and you will be fine, ignor it and we can read about it in Anglia afloat.

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[senator]

The illegal to fill a 20 litre Gerry can at UK petrol stations is not right. There is however a restriction that makes it illegal to carry more than 2 five litre fuel cans in a car. Take a van with a powder fire extinguisher in and you can legally transport 300 litres.

Finding someone to operate the extinguisher might be difficult though as if 300 litres of fuel was combined wit a fire in my van I would be making a hasty exit.

It is true that some petrol stations do restrict the filling of cans to 5 litres but around the broads I have not had a problem with 100 litres at a time although a lot will check the containers are suitable.

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[Guest]

The illegal to fill a 20 litre Gerry can at UK petrol stations is not right.

The law is now ridiculously complex. I said it was illegal to fill 20 or 25 litre plastic jerry cans at UK petrol stations. The law is quite specific on that point, as explained (at great length !) in this RYA document. (for private use)

http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondoc ... PETROL.pdf

There are quite different size limits for metal and plastic containers.

To then completely confuse the issue, filling 25 litre plastic outboard motor tanks is legal, though what the safety difference is between those and dedicated plastic petrol jerrycans eludes me. I guess they were in a corner there, with all new OEM 25 litre outboard motor tanks now being made of plastic.

I agree that many petrol stations near boating areas don't apply the law rigidly (thank goodness), but it is a bu**er when they do...

[brandenjg]

Thanks for the responses. I was thinking one of the things in the picture below. I thought jerry was a generic term for any portable fuel carrier, by the repsonses i realise i meant an external fuel tank . If i strap it on the front of the boat I'll have to run a fuel line to the back of the boat. Is this even safe? Would it be possible to strap it on the buoyancy tanks/seats on the boat as it would be outside the cabin but still within the boat?

[brandenjg]

Forgot to add the picture to the above post

[MBA Marine]

That would be an outboard tank, and place in on a flat surface as near the engine a possible, It does not have to have a strap, if you batten around the base so that it cannot slide around, still leaving it easily removable to lift off the boat. Best practice to take the tank off the boat when its back to the mooring.

no real problem for fixing to bouancy aid with a squirt of sika or silcone around each screw. better though to glass a piece of ply on top and fix to that, as you have painted out you might want to get away with keying up the surface with a corse sand paper, and sticking ply with Sika.

Dont go for a long fuel line, your just loking for trouble.

[senator]

The law is now ridiculously complex. I said it was illegal to fill 20 or 25 litre plastic jerry cans at UK petrol stations. The law is quite specific on that point, as explained (at great length !) in this RYA document. (for private use)

http://www.rya.org.uk/sitecollectiondoc ... PETROL.pdf

There are quite different size limits for metal and plastic containers.

To then completely confuse the issue, filling 25 litre plastic outboard motor tanks is legal, though what the safety difference is between those and dedicated plastic petrol jerrycans eludes me. I guess they were in a corner there, with all new OEM 25 litre outboard motor tanks now being made of plastic.

Sorry, Missed the plastic bit.

I did buy a fully compliant plastic one once, leaked like a sieve, would never buy another.

I agree that many petrol stations near boating areas don't apply the law rigidly (thank goodness), but it is a bu**er when they do...

[brandenjg]

Slightly off topic but i bought a fire extinguisher today for the boat. I'm just wondering if its up to bss standards. I've posted a link to the same extinguisher from another business. http://www.consumableitems.co.uk/google ... hicle-FM20

[goodall_m1]

I'm no expert on BSS but it looks to me like you may need a minimum of two extinguishers...

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/downloads/BSS_Guide_chap6web.pdf

The site you linked to doesn't seem to give the actual rating of your extinguisher, so you may have to check it's labeling when you get your hands on it.

[brandenjg]

As far as i can tell because i'm not putting any cooking or wired electricals in the boat i only need one. The rating is 13b and certified BS 6165.

[goodall_m1]

To quote from that site:

-----

Each portable fire extinguisher must have an individual fire rating of 5A/34B or greater.

The number of portable extinguishers and their combined fire ratings, must be as prescribed in the following table.

The minimum number of extinguishers may be reduced by a maximum of one 5A/34B rated extinguisher where the vessel has either no internal combustion engine, or no fuel-burning appliances.

Length of vessel Min. number Min. combined fire of each rating

Under 7m (23ft) 2 10A/68B

7-11m (23-36ft) 2 13A/89B

Over 11m (36ft) 3 21A/144B

-----

That would imply that your extinguisher is too small even if you only need one to pass the BSS.

No wiring doesn't seem to come into it, but yes their use of "either no... or no" (whatever happened to plain English) does indicate that as long as you don't have a stove aboard you should be OK with one.

But I'm sure someone with more real experience will be along later to but us on the right track, until then treat my comments as something to get the discussion rolling.

Martin

[MBA Marine]

If your wanting a outboard tank, then i guess you have a outboard? are you pull start only with tiller controles or are you having remotes and a battery? If you have a battery then you will need battery isolater switch and then you will have installed wiring.

give Tim Waters a call and ask him 07810458021 and you could book your test at the same time, no charge for a retest so you could get a fail sheet and use it as a check list.

I think one extingisher if you have no gas and no electrics, but at £15(ish) for an extinguisher one in the cabin and one at hands reach from your helm would be good, safety first. get new extingishers now and for BSS they must have a date within the last 5 years so with your next BSS 4 years away they will pass the next one!

[Stranger]

Yanmar do a diesel outboard motor ..... save the problem with petrol just a thought

[VetChugger]

But you would need to be Popeye or have a crane to lift it!

Trevor

www.normanboats.co.uk

[MBA Marine]

But you would need to be Popeye or have a crane to lift it!

Trevor

http://www.normanboats.co.uk

and a large bank balance to buy it!

[brandenjg]

Quick update. I bought the outboard. It's a pull start and came with an external fuel tank. I had to buy a new fire extinguisher which is up to full spec