Jim Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Earlier this year, our yard fitted a 37.5 litre calorifier in the engine bay, starboard side. The boat has always had a slight list to starboard as the toilet holding tank is also on the starboard side of the hull. The marina are wanting to correct the list and say they normally use metal pellets wrapped inside plastic and then hessian. I'd imagine it will need a lot of weight to counteract the list and wonder what others may have used ie market weights etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBA Marine Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 lead shot/Ingots is normal, if its never to come out then lead shot mixed with resin poured into any water traps then a layer of grp, ads weight and looses water traps. can you move your batteries? or add a water tank thant you can add water to or pump out as desired. Its quite common when looking on older boats to find chopped up bits or railway line hidden under galley units or under floors!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 2 easy solutions, put your wallet and booze on t'other side : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Serious answer , 37litres = 8 gallons. 8 gallons weighs 80lb so you are probably looking at 100lb or 10 gallons of water, can put a 10 gallon spare water can some where? or a second fuel tank? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diesel falcon Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 10 gallons of water takes up a lot of room in a 23 footer, i,d go with the lead option,mind you with metal prices as they are it may cost!! ps it might list the other way when the tank is empty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Try a boot sale for old whitworth spanners the larger sizes are some weight, our waste & water tank are on the same side,so when I notice a tilt I know it's time for a pumpout. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 In all my boats I've carried "moveable ballast" to correct transverse lists. Making any solution easily movable makes it much more versatile. In many boats the tanks can't be mounted centrally, so the list alters considerably when main tanks are drained and/or filled (eg water and diesel). I'd be nervous of using cast iron sack weights, if they're resting on the hull bottom they could damage grp if they moved (in heavy waves). Steel punchings in sacks are much kinder with no hard edges and will conform to any hull shape. The best compromise I've found for weight/volume efficiency and cheap cost is old lead tyre balancing weights poured into 1 gallon plastic water containers. They're then very clean to handle, soft rounded edges, and they weigh around 20kg, in an aprrox 6" by 4" by 8" container with a neat carry handle ! Two of those will compensate for the 37 litre tank, and they can be easily moved or removed when you drain down for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VetChugger Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Does nobody use sand bags for ballast anymore? That's what I used on my Norman 23. Trevor www.normanboats.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 2 easy solutions, put your wallet and booze on t'other side : Thanks for all the suggestions The batteries are already on the port side of the engine bay and if I put my wallet on the other side it would make no difference at this time MIght try a few bags of aggregate to sort the problem. I don't have any problem getting hold of the stuff as my regular customers are all in the business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pks1702 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I'm with Trevor. Get a couple of woven polypropylene sacks and use ballast (as in sand). This combination has the ability to mould quite nicely around odd shapes in the bilges. Broom use this for 'fine tuning'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Perry, I think this is the best suggestion and the only problem is where to put it. SWMBO may have to make room for a few bags in one of her cherished "storage areas". I do not want it in the engine bay at all!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Perry, I think this is the best suggestion and the only problem is where to put it. SWMBO may have to make room for a few bags in one of her cherished "storage areas". I do not want it in the engine bay at all!!! That's why lead or steel punchings is the best option when wanting to save space. The specific gravity of ballast, sand, or even concrete is very poor compared with metal. Sand is only one and half times heavier than water, whereas lead is eleven and half times heavier. To achieve the same weight of ballast, sand will take up seven times as much space as lead..... My shoe box sized one gallon plastic jerricans weigh 20 kg each (filled with old, nearly free lead tyre weights), and can fit neatly in a cupboard, whereas a sandbag is a much more nebulous lump to fit in somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBA Marine Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 You cant have to many spare mud weights! Back to batteries, do you have room to add a couple more into your domestc bank, would add weight and be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Thanks Strowie. Unfortunatley, we already have two large batteries on the port shelf and there is no more room. Looks like lead will be the best option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat nee blownup Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Me and Quo Vadis are in the middle of stripping an old Birchwood that fell from its trailer during a journey by road for tup north and getting deeper into it have found lots of old Sash weights laid on top of cork flooring tiles. They've settled nicely and looks to be ideal. They are still in it at St. Olaves and i'm sure the owner would let you have them for a couple of bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 have found lots of old Sash weights laid on top of cork flooring tiles. They've settled nicely and looks to be ideal. Cast iron is seven and half times heavier than water, so just over half as efficient volume-wise as lead. Still much more dense and weight efficient than sand though, so not a bad solution if there is a convenient spot in the bilges. They would need to be carefully secured and/or padded though, each hard torpedo-like lump could do a lot of damage to a fibreglass hull if it started crashing around in a s seaway. The scene looks nice and settled at the mooring, but when pitching around at 30 degrees they need to be made immovable (just like batteries). I have to admit, that's were bagged sand and ballast does score whenever there is plenty of space under the floor. They're never going to do any damage, even if they move a certain amount, as long as the shift can't destabilise the trim to any great extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 We saw a boatyard in Brundall use Pea gravel in nylon 'sand bags' to correct it's 'sit' in the water. The trouble with sand is it can hold moisture, and also dry out, so the weight can change but gravel does neither. Small bags can be fitted wherever you have space. IMHO that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBA Marine Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Cast iron is seven and half times heavier than water, so just over half as efficient volume-wise as lead. Still much more dense and weight efficient than sand though, so not a bad solution if there is a convenient spot in the bilges. They would need to be carefully secured and/or padded though, each hard torpedo-like lump could do a lot of damage to a fibreglass hull if it started crashing around in a s seaway. The scene looks nice and settled at the mooring, but when pitching around at 30 degrees they need to be made immovable (just like batteries). I have to admit, that's were bagged sand and ballast does score whenever there is plenty of space under the floor. They're never going to do any damage, even if they move a certain amount, as long as the shift can't destabilise the trim to any great extent. Question for those whome like maths. This subject was raised with me yesterday, i was asked if Storage heater bricks would make good ballast, they are far denser than shingle as they weigh alot more for the size of them (approx 8"x8"x2 sorry not weighed one)". Also with metal costs so high and developers constantly ripping storage heaters out in favour of central heating im sure could be found for free. The salty brigade would need to secure them though, broads chuggers not so essential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Question for those whome like maths. This subject was raised with me yesterday, i was asked if Storage heater bricks would make good ballast, they are far denser than shingle as they weigh alot more for the size of them (approx 8"x8"x2 sorry not weighed one)". Also with metal costs so high and developers constantly ripping storage heaters out in favour of central heating im sure could be found for free. The salty brigade would need to secure them though, broads chuggers not so essential. I'm afraid they're still only around 2.5, relative to water, so still less than half as dense as cast iron, and a fifth of the density of lead. They're only about 20% heavier than gravel or sand, and the hard corners certainly would need protection against the inside of a GRP hull as you say. I agree they do seem very heavy, when you get a dozen or so packed tightly into a 3 kw rad. I've dismantled a few myself over the years to move them or replace the elements. Old engineering bricks are about the same density and might be easier to fit into bilges, being narrower, (like Staffordshire Blues or Russets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat nee blownup Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Pound for Pound Lead is without doubt the best thing for the job. But, IIb for £ it is by far the most expensive when there are alternatives available for nominal costs. Albeit there would be more space required to affect the desired load. Having said that there may be a few places of worship around the Broads area still untouched! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Pound for Pound Lead is without doubt the best thing for the job. But, IIb for £ it is by far the most expensive when there are alternatives available for nominal costs. Albeit there would be more space required to affect the desired load. Having said that there may be a few places of worship around the Broads area still untouched! When bought from tyre dealers as scrap balancing weights, it's just about the cheapest option, pound for pound. A couple of years ago, I bought around 60kg for about £20..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillR Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 as i remeber it lead was prefered not only for its weight but because it was soft and would wear before the boat hull, due to vibration causing chaffing. i think that was for steel hulls and im not sure weather that would be the same for glass or wood. i would be thinking of the possible damage to the hull due to balast and vibration and how to avoid it if poss jill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hopefully I will find out today just how much weight is needed. Must weigh meself before setting out to the boat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBA Marine Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Hopefully I will find out today just how much weight is needed. Must weigh meself before setting out to the boat! you could always eat more pies or get down the gym depending on if you need to add or loose on the helm side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian J. Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 I used window sash weights. You can get them from house demolition/recovery yards quite cheaply. Rub them down and paint with grey galvanising paint - at least I think that is what it is called. Easy to move around to get the right trim and can be steadied with small sand bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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