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JawsOrca

Sabre 28 - Cruiser - Project

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Hello,

 

Again sorry for spamming the forums! but I thought it would be nice to do a thread for our new project as we are only just starting. (and I was encouraged by some fellow members ;)).

 

This is the fifth project we have done in 10 years, So I'd like to think we have some idea of what we are doing, however certainly welcome any suggestions! (And of course all and any help!). The first project was a CB 19, which was a classic little speed boat, the second was "Jessica" a falmouth gypsy, the third was a 55ft steel houseboat (still in progress!), forth a little timber sailing boat which make I've forgotten.

 

To introduce us (Encase richardsons have any boatbuilding jobs going!). I'm Alan, I work in IT, so do the planning, research and most woodwork (I'm a perfectionist though :( which makes jobs harder, (except my grammar and spelling!)) . My partner in crime is Dave and he is an ex-mechanic and does all the mechanical jobs, electrical, plumbing etc etc etc

 

Back to the project!, We acquired the boat as an unstarted project and the unnamed boat had been standing for a fair few years.  As you can see in the pictures below the boat was very green!

 

So when we got the boat, it came complete with as pictured. Thankfully she has the option of two engines (Although only one can be used), 1 x 1.5cc bmc in good condition. 1 x Peugeot (70hp) diesel car engine which had been tidily marinised.

 

The plan is really to make the boat comfortable as quick as possible (although we only work on the boat on the weekends so it will take about a year, plus the cost is always a struggle!), then once Jessica has sold, get this boat up to Norfolk. (although thankfully in the meantime my parents have a cruiser based in brundall so we can "borrow" as and when!).

 

I'll try to take pics every weekend and keep this updated (although mods if I'm using too much server space just shout at me!) but I've already left my phone at home once.

 

So below are pictures from purchase day.. I'll follow on day 2, 3 and 4 below.

 

Hope you enjoy following the progress! (Professionals please be gentle on us!)

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Day 2 - Today we got there nice and early.

 

Dave (the mechanical one) was straight in the engine room.. (He is soo happy he can stand up and has an engine room!). He noticed that the engine beds are missing though and the transom and some other structural timbers are rotten too, so he just took the transom out and readied it for replacement. Plus he inspected the engines and all look good but they will need running for a bit at some point and seeing how they behave.

 

I simply washed the boat! Although it took all day... pics attached of a nice shiny boat.  Thankfully it looks like we may get away with painting (I really cant be a perfectionist with this boat otherwise it will never make it to norfolk!)..

 

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Day 3 and 4...

 

Dave, took the sterndrive (thing) out and on day 3 finished preparing the hull for the new transom. Day 4 saw the new transom put in (2 x 3/4inch Marine ply and interzone resin).

 

I stripped the boat down completely so its all now a bear hull .. only 5 cuts on rusty screws (Think thats a new record! (normally i'm covered in cuts and bruises).. I certainly love this bit though! Oh and I managed to get the windows to slide after they had little plants growing in them.

 

Next weekend, Dave will get the engine beds in and hopefully the other structural beams (although means I have to walk round the timber yard to get some hardwood and i'm like a kid in a candy shop in there). For me I need to remove the wooden trim on the windows and replace with alloy trims as it looks strange having half wood and half alloy, although means I've had to spend £45 on screws.  (If i have time, need to reinstall the timbers which the headlining screw into, as they are either rotten or missing).

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Day 5.

 

Parts ordered for this week where; £40's worth of window screws and £30's worth of poly resin.

 

I wanted to unscrew the botched woodern framing around the cabin windows and replace with the alloy flat bar trim, but after I started to unscrew the screws (Which thankfully unscrewed without any problem, I was surprised!). I noticed that the huge pile of spare alloy internal window frames didn't include any for these windows..  it looks like the previous owners just went to a boat jumble and picked up a load of random trims. So that jobs on hold until I can find some new alloy bar.

 

Instead I spent all day cutting the fibreglass around the cabin/wheelhouse door to reposition it as we noticed its off by 4inches!  Its ready to be glassed in for tomorrow though. 

 

Dave struggled too as the boats like a sieve and with the heavy rain meant he couldnt glass the new engine beds in nd the bilge are too wet.. but they are all ready to go in and hopefully the rain will have stopped by the morning so he can glass in tomorrow. He also noticed most of the structural beams were rotten and will need to come out and be replaced too.. more work!

 

Today fells like one of those days where nothing much happened (although the weather was really bad so at least something happened!).

 

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It's amazing what a wash will do, as it looks like a different boat!

 

Keep the blog and pictures coming, I'm enjoying this!

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It's amazing what a wash will do, as it looks like a different boat!

 

Keep the blog and pictures coming, I'm enjoying this!

 

Thanks for this! That's why in a way its nice to get boats which look the worst at the start as its easy to see the progress, my sailing boat had a tree growing out of it when we first got it! 

 

Day 5 (Sunday gone).

 

As thankfully it stoped raining for a bit we both really worked on fixing the canopy (someone had put the fixings on the outside so it just funnels the rain water into the boat!) so the fixings are now on the inside. Also filled lots of holes in the superstructure (Its amazing how people can just drill holes and then don't bother filling them! Also has to resort to drastic measures and drilled more holes in the window frames as its apparent that the rain is just getting funnelled (again) into the boat by the windows. (Talking to hadlow marine he suggest it should be fine when its in the water). I do need to get the dremel out and neatern up though. Oh I also went round the frames with creeping crack sealer, Didn't appear to any other leaks..Hopefully when we are back next the windows will be dry. 

 

Unfortunatly/thankfully (Need a rest!) the yard is locked up till the 27th.  More to come. Have a great christmas all!

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Day 6.

 

Arrived at 11am!! (I've had long couple of days.. it took me 12 hours just to wrap the presents!).

 

Hoping to see the insides a bit drying and yup no chance.. still a pond... grr.. Well actually that's not too fair. The windows still leak the canopy was a bit better sealed up, the temporary installed plastic water run offs failed to work. The bilge was almost dry which was good, considering how hard it rained (So we are winning).

 

But thankfully it rained really hard (even hail-stoned!) so we were able to see what was leaking, how and why. The cabin windows appear to be such a tight angle it appears they need screwing down as each time the window slides it opens the joint up (but can't because of the sliding window) as so the sealant can not flex free (I can't explain this really). So I'm going to try and screw down and throw tons of sealant in there, I pulled back the runner liner and tried creeping crack sealant which just poured through so I may see if that works but still think it needs a screw. Although they probably want to come out and be reinstalled but that's a big job (for me and I don't want to do it unless nothing else works) :(

 

Dave also worked on waterproofing the engine bay so he can get the engine beds glassed in. He planned down one side of the engine beds though and started work on the other.. We both reinstalled the main door into the cabin so we can lock it up in the evenings, it wasn't a job i could do as we had to close the door and the fold down hatch and hold and screw whilst keeping aligned... it really was a pain! I guess if it was a new boat you would make the frame then the door.. joys of rebuilding..  

 

Tomorrows jobs.. Keep "playing" with the windows and install a lock for the door, I want to plan putting the bulkhead (cabin to wheelhouse) back in.. although the glass here is a mess so wont be easy.. I'm thinking cutting some of the interior moulding out to make it easier... Dave will continue working on the engine beds.

 

Also have some interest in the sailing boat so nice dreaming of the money if she sells!!

 

Couple of pictures attached. I'll take more tomorrow though!

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Good to see yer get on with it...

Well done

Just forgive me to poke me nose in but the bilge in front cabin were on most sterlings were filled with foam is yer the same ...if so we alwsys dug iut some so water collected to evacuagte it use a coolect pot /hole worth a look etc

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Hi there, Thanks for your comment!, as mentioned all advice is welcome certainly from people like yourself!

 

Can you just advise though, I can't see although haven't looked too much as its full of stuff! but I think it appears to be just the plastic hull, although do you mean the D foam stringers which are used to strengthen the hull  (If so do you suggest removing and replacing these with dry foam?) or is there other foam right in the centre of the bilge?

 

Thanks in advance! 

 

Good to see yer get on with it...
Well done

Just forgive me to poke me nose in but the bilge in front cabin were on most sterlings were filled with foam is yer the same ...if so we alwsys dug iut some so water collected to evacuagte it use a coolect pot /hole worth a look etc

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yep yer rite the foam filed bearers and bilge stringer are the norm ,and not uncommon to find water in  side them as when built no one bothered to cut / drill drain in lowest part to self drain so i suggest yuo do this .drill some holes to drain excess water out in ohter place to aid this to dry out dont foget once dry line hole etc with some thing like gel /sealer etc too 

 

 

as with most orf the sterlings were double skin moiulded internals which between the bilge were foam filled sadlt this kept water ingrees and went stale as it does ......

 

if on other hand the cabin floor has acess and none inside then yer on a winnner 

 

 

give it a look....................

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Ahh, no thankfully between both hull mouldings ours has just empty space! I probably wouldn't have thought of removing the foam too though! 

 

We will also have a good drill around the d foam sections to see if these are filled with water.

 

Thanks for your help! Much Appreciated!

 

yep yer rite the foam filed bearers and bilge stringer are the norm ,and not uncommon to find water in  side them as when built no one bothered to cut / drill drain in lowest part to self drain so i suggest yuo do this .drill some holes to drain excess water out in ohter place to aid this to dry out dont foget once dry line hole etc with some thing like gel /sealer etc too 

 

 

as with most orf the sterlings were double skin moiulded internals which between the bilge were foam filled sadlt this kept water ingrees and went stale as it does ......

 

if on other hand the cabin floor has acess and none inside then yer on a winnner 

 

 

give it a look....................

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Day 7.

 

Engine beds finally in place with first layer of glass (just warm enough for the glass to off... just buy about 1 dc!!). Pic attached.  If its still warm tomorrow dave will put another layer of glass on. if its cold then he needs to start working on the other hull beams which have rotten out. 

 

I sent all day putting a latch and a lock on the door.. But its the best door lock on any boats in the whole world.. (Pics attached (don't look too closely!)). Tomorrow I'll probably take out one of the roof support beams (dave will probably have to epoxy in though as we can't clear the condensation). I want to reinstall the water drip stopper alloy bar thing (I know what I mean) and stick a load of sealant in the really tight angle (which is leaking like a sieve). If it don't stop leaking I'm going to... I dunno!  For now probably throw a tarpalian over it and hope that keeps some drips out.

 

Pics attached: 

 

1. Canopy correctly refitted to stop water running in! (worked)

2. New engine beds in!

3. Door refitted after being moved over 4 inches.

4. My hard work today... 4 hours work there...!

5. The wind which is useless and is just leaking.. Neads a gallon of sealant..

6. Door from the inside.. Neatly alligned to the steps now.. although I think i'm 5 mm out.. but shh..

7. Window awaiting its alloy surrounds.. I need to order them actually!

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Day 8,

 

We had friends over looking at other boats so an unproductive day today.. (always nice to have the odd one though!).

 

However, we managed to clean the alloy weather strips, these had to be clear of the clear silicon which had been used previously.  So using sili-kil from toolstation this took me a couple of hours to do and worked quite well. We then used "arboseal br" as a sealant and re-screwed onto the frames (although only got one side done). This stuff is a rubber based (putty like) sealant so doesn't cure fully allowing to reworked lovely stuff (Perfect where there maybe a bit of movement and you still want a seal). Hopefully this will help stop the leaks although I still want to go round with crack sealer. Dave also put into two spare mushroom vents in (we had spare from other boats),I didn't have the guts to cut the fibreglass so got him to do it!. Dave also managed to put another 2 layers of glass over the engine beds.  The spare glass he managed to fill in the gap around the door to the cabin so this is filled now and ready be sanded.

 

Finally we out the big sheet over so hopefully this will help

 

Tomorrow, dave wants to epoxy the engine beads into the transom as we used epoxy on the transom resin wont stick to epoxy. He also needs to get the forward-aft hull timber support out and others cut ready to go in.  I need to put the other window seal in and reapply the crack sealant. Hopefully get one of the roof supports out..one cut, ready to be glassed in. We can only be in this yard during daylight hours, which is nice to be able to get home early, it would be nice to have a few more hours to work. 

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Day 9.

 

Putting the sheet over last night appeared to have helped with some leaks and condensation issues!

 

I managed to install the weather strip on the port sidewindow which thankfully stopped that window leaking! Mission complete! Although the other side the window has pretty much popped out so I now need to remove this, clear the silicon and refit using the Abromast sealant. Although it looks wet tomorrow I'm going to brave it and try it! The sheet pretty much covers the windows and fingers crossed the other little but wont get wet.. It cant be any worst that it is now!

 

I also after lots of lots of head scratching worked out how I'm going to panel the main wall between the cabin and the wheelhouse as the mouldings where really really badly joined (1 inch out so it would mean that the ply wouldn't line up neatly against the door frame), but as I say all sorted now.. The timber framing will go up neatly tomorrow (I tried today but as usual broke the drill bit - and it was a cobalt drill bit too!).

 

Dave as usual stayed in the engine bay area and spent the day inspecting and then removing the two large (3 x 7 inch x 10feet! structural support beams which we guess where the original engine beds if it had twin engines. They where glassed in but really badly and people had stuck nails through them which turned them into potting compost/Mud! So these came out easily.  Couple of pics attached.

 

Finally I managed to uncover the outdrive serial's number and identified it as a huge (expensive!) volvo penta 280 leg so that's now been removed from the yard and gone into storage!

 

 

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Day 10! 

 

(Last day tomorrow so I can leave the forum in peace for a week! and give 650x's project more exposure than it deserves! Thats a true project.. Orca is simple in comparison!!)

 

We had to get the large starboard window out today as it pretty much fell out yesterday! Thankfully it really did fall out today and we were surprised to see that a thin (2mm) foam bedding material was used instead of any rubber or siliflex so the surfaces cleaned up ok. Again using the Arboseal br (sorry to repeat but I'm using this blog as a list of materials so when I need to do this again (I've said never before 4 times before!) I can find the materials again!) it all went back together ok, although we had to run to toolstation and get some washers as I removed the sidelining the screws were now too short. But it did go back together ok and the leak is still seeping through but not as bad.. I think creeping sealer should fix that now.

 

I also cut some timbers for the bulkhead but the screws I had were too short and not enough time left t get screws (boatyard is locked up at 4pm :( So i removed one of the roof supports.

 

We also managed to secure another engine for the boat. A nice tidy Vetus M4.15 which should go well with it.. tad small so probably means we wont bring her up via water but will be perfect for Norfolk.. Also means we now need to sell the BMC 1.5.. (anyone wants it message me!).

 

Dave also played around more in the engine bay getting ready for the floor supports.

 

Pics attached: 

1. Badly put together mouldings, Pic doesn't really show but its far from square.. means for some funky timber work.

2. Window out!

3. Window on the cabin floor!

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just might be a help use a couple orf mill millmeter cuting disc to cut in to ole fibre glass beares as its quick and better than a dimaound wheel yer know

 

they work well ...................

 

all on a small gridette of coarse migth make it a bit quicker 

 

good work boys keep it up ..................................

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Ahh thanks! I know what you mean!

 

To be honest we normally use a (I know this is going to raise an eyebrowl!) a blunt chisel!  If you guide it gently and with a bit of guts and just the right amount of force with a light hammer! (and I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else as it can go through the hull!) you can get it separate the two laters of glass and then what it does is expose the fibres to allow the replacement mat to go over and saves having to rough up... Its taken some practice though!.  But will certainly try these thin blades if the glass is a bit too thick and its getting hard work! Thanks again! 

 

just might be a help use a couple orf mill millmeter cuting disc to cut in to ole fibre glass beares as its quick and better than a dimaound wheel yer know

 

they work well ...................

 

all on a small gridette of coarse migth make it a bit quicker 

 

good work boys keep it up ..................................

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Day 11.

 

Nasty rainy new years day. Thankfully though we are working on the inside bits! As you can see from the pics I made good progress on the framing which will take the veneered ply. The mouldings really are all over the place so it took a bit of work, I managed to do it though and it should all be smooth when it goes on. (That took me all day and I didn't quite finish). Dave removed the last old glass for the support beams in the engine bay which had rotted out. He then came inside and finished off removing the glass on of the support beams and got the replacement partially in.

 

So back to work (Boring office IT work tomorrow :( although I need a bit of a rest as its been a busy few days. Although I'll be day dreaming about the fit out! (I really wish I could get a job in the marine industry!). Saturday too we are off the pompus crappy annoying london boat show. I want to look round but really don't like the feel of it and most people aren't proper boaties but paid for tickets so will go hopefully will get some use from it! We also hopefully have a viewing on the sailboat for sunday so maybe no more boatyard for over a week!

 

Happy new year everyone and thanks for reading :)

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Those battens look ready for some paint not cladding, you could make your life easier by painting all your timber first and once dry you can use it with only the cut ends to seal up.

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Those battens look ready for some paint not cladding, you could make your life easier by painting all your timber first and once dry you can use it with only the cut ends to seal up.

 

Thanks for your comments Mark! We were just discussing painting them and certainly probably will as its just crappy softwood (and I don't want to do it all again!). Although some may be glassed in just to add some extra strength (I couldn't get a secure fastening on some bits and last think I want is that bulkhead to move when you lean back on it!). Its also going to get insulation between it as thats effectively an outside wall.

 

Anyways thanks again for the tips!  

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Day 12.

 

Hard to imagine that its only day 12, it seems like we have been doing this for months already! Unfortunately though we are at the point now where things seem to be slowing down or at least its where not many chances so it feels like its slowing down (I guess this is were the un-experienced start to give up).  However things did happen..

 

Dave got both structural beams in the engine beds (I'm going to call them this as we aren't too sure what they are, I think they may have been engine beds if this hull has two engines). we have seen pictures of some of theses boats without these but our rule is replace what was there. So these are in and have one coat of glass over. Dave also managed to finish off the roof beam in the cabin which I removed as it as rotten.

 

I managed to tidy the front cabin up and sort bits out so this area is now tidy so work can be done on the windows. The previous owners had removed the inner alloy trim and replaced with really badly fitted softwood trims. I don't like and want to put foam backed headlining on the side which will require refitting the alloy trims. Annoyingly last week I could only find some of the alloy trims (there was a pile of them) but after tidying up I found them all so the £30 new trims I ordered, I didn't need (Ebay listing coming soon..!). However this job is a two person job as we need someone on the inside securing the innerscrew and someone on the outside doing the screw up.. But I don;t want to take Dave away from getting the engine room ready for the engine.  So hopefully next week I'll have some other family help. (Its a little waste of time as these will need to come out again when the sidelining is ordered however i want to make sure the windows are watertight before ordering and fitting the sidelining).

 

Tomorrows jobs, Dave needs to get another coat of glass on the structural beams. I'm going to install the double glazing film onto the front windows in the hope that slows down the condensation (it works in the houseboat windows). The engine beams also need to join the structual beams to the engine beds so these need making and glassing. We (I) also need to clean up the BMC engine, get it started and painted so it can go on ebay.  (As I say its now time consuming little jobs), although we plan on getting the engine lifted in the next month or so.

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Day 13.

 

Geez a frosty cold day today. The boat barely defrosted all day, even though the thermometer on the car read 6 degrees on the way home.. The boats in a shaded bit which would be nice in the summer really sucks now!

 

Dave (with the help of a heater!) managed to glass in the other beds (and I went and had a look and they look lovely!). I managed to clean the old BMC engine up, dave and the previous boat owner came over and we got it turned it over but I needed time to bleed the system so we all gave up and they left me to paint it.. it really does look very pretty now! I've just published on ebay and it already has 31 views and two watchers which isn't bad odds!  I also installed the double glazing film on the front windows as these have a serious habit of condensating  (and its the only bit of light at the moment as theres a big sheet over the boat so we dont want to cover). Lets see what it looks like next weekend.

 

Next weekend jobs; Dave wants to reinstall the outdrive transom plate (thing) so he can build up the engine beds for the vetus engine (I'll get a picture soon :)  I'm hoping my help arrives next week so I can get the window trim on and then refit the roof beams above the dining area and finish my battens off.

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:clap  I assume the 'photo taken on 27th December

was of Dave?  He looks like he could do with a

couple of pints after all his hard work!  I am 

enjoying this.  Keep up the good work!

Regards Alan  :wave

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Thanks Alan, Yeah thats dave! you will not see many pictures of me as I hide behind the camera! Looking forward to be back there next weekend :)

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:clap  Have you got him that pint yet!  I assume that as

you are based in Kent that the work is being carried 

out at a boatyard near you?  We also live in Kent and its

exactly  166 miles door to door but more than worth it

when we get there!  Regards Alan :wave

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