Sabre 28 - Cruiser - Project

[Swordfish]

Hello Alan,

 

The work in the photos is my own, to replace the original V8 petrol engine with a 2.8 Isuzu diesel engine in my boat.

 

There are other factors that also need to be addressed : cooling water intake and exhaust outlet are possibly the most important.  The primary drive shaft, as I said before, is very important for the drive connection to work, at the stage you are at I would certainly renew the bearings for this shaft.  The bearings are available from any bearing supplier, no need  for Volvo Penta parts, I can tell you how to do this, and I should have the bearing numbers.

 

I will find my link to an on line version of  the work shop manual,  and  send it via a PM to you,  you will probably find it useful.  Perhaps you should  also consider new oil / water seals in the drive leg, they are also very important.

 

Paul 

[JawsOrca]

Ok Good news! We heard back from lancing and they can do just like Paul did.. The exhaust maybe a problem but it can be worked around (at extra costs of course!). Annoyingly the engine needs to go down to them to (Lesson learnt!) so I need to sort the crane out asap. The costs is along way from £300 but (again looking at Paul's pictures) there's clearly alot of very skilled work and it means its a "Proper job!"

 

Paul.. Seriously that's amazing what you have done there! if our bell-housing looks like that I'll be chuffed! I think we have a copy of a workshop manual already but please please PM me details just in case your copy is different/better! If you could also let me know details of the bearings too I would be very grateful, the seals are on the list to do but again if you can kindly send me any details I'll be very grateful again! 
 

This forum spoils us, everyone is amazingly helpful and we are very grateful!

[Swordfish]

Hello Alan,

 

Mike Bellamy is very competent at doing this type of work, he needs your engine to line up everything before welding, exactly as I did.  Not too far to go from your location.

 

Paul

[MBA Marine]

Does the exhaust exit via the leg? if so cant one blank it off, you will have room to take the exhaust sideways, through a silencer curl around and through a standard exhaust outlet, get it above the waterline and you get yourself the traditional baaable, baaable floooosh sound as the water exits and its always nice to have the water tell out the back and you know your impeller it working.

[JawsOrca]

I hope so Paul

 

Hi Mark, we need to measure up as it looks like the exhaust maybe too close to the transom but if it is they will just add a spacer on the flywheel. Unfortunately the exhaust is the wrong side and the parts missing from the leg to enable it to go out via the leg so we will just blank it off. Lancing do the part we noticed. Plus we already brought the exhaust bits (Muffler, waterlock, and swanneck) so will just end up with a nice little loop then out somewhere, as you say though its reassuring to hear the impeller is still working (we had my sailing boats outlet on the waterline and I was never comfortable with not hearing it, although I rarely ran the engine), but hopefully we should get it reasonably quiet. It has a sender on the exhaust too so we will put the exhaust alarm on too.

[Guest]

.......There are other factors that also need to be addressed : cooling water intake and exhaust outlet are possibly the most important.....

 

 

Yes, and as now discussed, modifying the exhaust outlet to separate it from the outdrive leg outlet has many advantages as well, such as the visible and audible spurting.

 

I've always wondered about that aspect of Volvo and Mercruiser design philosophy. They both went for the "simple" approach, with just one hole through the hull (albeit a very large one !).  This adds the complication of another bellows and a hose to the swivelling leg as well.  There's also the need for a crude non-return flap on the exhaust outlet in the rear facing anti-cavitation plate, otherwise a wave surge on the stern whilst the engine is not running  could conceivably push water up over the exhaust risers and into any open exhaust valves.

 

Blanking the exhaust off eliminates that problem and removes one set of bellows.

 

Similarly, the standard outdrive intake design has distinct disadvantages that can be easily rectified with a modified separate conventional seacock arrangement.  When I bought my AQ205, the intake was through a crude louvre grill in the leg, then straight into the raw cooling pump via a complex shaped hose.  I replaced that with a reinforced clear PVC suction hose and a remote Vetus intake filter (of the same 30mm bore) with a transparent lid.

 

This has many advantages for inland use. Weed is now filtered out, rather than circulating through the block of the engine, water flow is easily checked while the engine is running, and the intake air lock syphon is easily broken when draining the engine for winterising.

[JawsOrca]

The exhaust outlet and water inlet on the leg certainly seems to overly complicate things! I'm happier to try and keep this leg as simple as possible so use "traditional" means to do this! As you may have gathered I'm already hating this sterndrive!

 

As you mention there strowager, I have fears that the water intake will soon get clogged up on the leg too.  So are these plastic raw water strainers "ok "to use. I quite like the idea of them but we've never had one. Are they a weak joint and can leak? are the lids strong enough and won't break? Dave wants to use the traditional bronze reed strainer connected directly to the seacock on the hull but as the hull is a long way down on this boat I'm thinking it will be nicer to have one of these plastic strainers.. But I'm a little worried it may break, any thoughts?  Bronze best if we can get one cheap.. plastic "Ok"? 

[Guest]

....... So are these plastic raw water strainers "ok "to use. I quite like the idea of them but we've never had one. Are they a weak joint and can leak? are the lids strong enough and won't break? Dave wants to use the traditional bronze reed strainer connected directly to the seacock on the hull but as the hull is a long way down on this boat I'm thinking it will be nicer to have one of these plastic strainers.. But I'm a little worried it may break, any thoughts?  Bronze best if we can get one cheap.. plastic "Ok"? 

 

 

Although plastic sounds as though it would be weaker than brass, in this case I much prefer the Vetus strainers.

 

I've had a couple of boats that originally had the brass strainer directly attached to the inlet seacock that Dave has mentioned. (Like this one that had been particularly badly fitted by a previous owner.)

 

To be honest, they always had me really worried, and I changed them out as quickly as I could.  They seem as though they could easily be snapped off if banged from above by accident, possibly sinking the boat.

 

They potentially could crack and fracture if frozen water set in them. Lastly, they are more difficult to check or clear, often being below the water level and with minimal gauze area.

 

By contrast, the Vetus ones are very robustly made, (even though plastic), and the lid is very thick, closing on a very meaty O ring with a sturdy thread.  They can be fitted easily above the water line so that they can be opened and cleaned without panic (     ).  It's worth mentioning that they are available in a number of sizes, and the bigger ones are more robust than the smallest.

 

They also have a much larger gauze filter surface area so are less likely to block, and the transparent lid enables visual checking while running.

 

If the plastic does bother you, this type can also be bought in metal with glass lids, though quite a bit more expensive.

[MBA Marine]

Dont be fooled into thinking plastic is the cheaper option, they do have the word 'Vetus' on them. I bet you can find a bronze one cheaper, i'm to lazy to look them up for you, but you can price both on the ASAP supplies website.

[JawsOrca]

I've heard people say that the bronze filters getting knocked off but if they are on hireboats (which this will sound wrong but I don't mean it too as we all start off on hire boats) then surely this means they can't be too bad as surely hireboats are built for destruction.  ASAP do a "economy version" of the plastic one for about £20 but someone at the boat jumble said the lids can crack so better going with "vetus" ones which don't. I am a bit of a sucker for brands but just wonder if anyone else has such experience. 

[diesel falcon]

If you look at the picture of my engine there,s a weed filter on the right, it has 12mm thick glass top, you can unblock it in 10mins, as i have done when out on the river....Loddon mud struck that day!!, would be a tad over the top for your 30hp, but i would go for a bronze option....eventually plastic goes opaque no matter who,s name,s on the label aimho  of coarse.

[Guest]

....eventually plastic goes opaque no matter who,s name,s on the label aimho  of coarse....

 

 

I've been using Vetus plastic intake filters for quite a few years on a number of boats now, and I've never had one go opaque. 

 

Are you sure you mean the genuine Vetus ones ?  There are many much cheaper, similar looking plastic  filters around, nowhere near as well made.  

 

The Vetus filters are moulded from very thick plastic, and are just as widely used in seagoing boats up to a certain engine size.  Spares are also readily available too from places like ASAP http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/vetus+strainer

 

I can clear mine in less than a minute !  

[JawsOrca]

Day 21

 

Back to work, although absolutely exhausted today as barely slept last night with all this wind.. bits flying about from the houseboats roof.. annoying!

 

It was a short day today though as we noticed a huge tree in the boatyard was about to come down and if it did it would tear up the main road.. so the yard decided to close early.. although we had a good day.. we started on the engine and moved it back to simulate it coupled up to the volvo leg, which it would do!.

 

However we are now on the lookout for a smaller leg which would probably be better suited (plus a good second hand one will probably be half the price of modifying things), we aren't really going to put a big v8 engine in if we have this little vetus either, but we will see whats about.. nothing wrong with having a couple of options!

 

We ended in cutting and glassing some battens on the wheel house walls to take some nice ply lining and strengthen it up as its taking a lot of force at the moment with this poxy weather. Oh dave also finished glassing the battens in the cabin roof so thats ready for insulation and electrics etc.

 

(Sorry no pics, mobile was flat (as usual!).

 

The Yard is shut tomorrow whilst they work out how to bring this tree down, thankfully orca is well out the way! So we have a day off! (Yay, we need a day off!)

[Guest]

......However we are now on the lookout for a smaller leg which would probably be better suited (plus a good second hand one will probably be half the price of modifying things), we aren't really going to put a big v8 engine in if we have this little vetus either, .......

 

 

Good parallel thinking there Alan (and Dave).

 

Your basic concept of having some space between the engine and the outdrive has some advantages, though as we've all now discussed is not practical or even possible with Volvo Penta drives which demand rigid coupling.

 

I have no practical experience with the smaller drives you mention, though I have looked at diagrams and photos of them.

 

The Enfield drive for instance, has the magic phrase "Close or distance coupled to any inboard engine", which does indeed make it ideal for your modified layout, and should be able to cope with the separately flexibly mounted Vetus.

 

I've been reading up on it at http://www.chertseymeadsmarine.co.uk/engineering.shtml 

 

Even though the Transom opening will need to be completely modified, because of the totally different mounting shape, you may be able to achieve that with something as simple as a carefully cut 10mm stainless steel plate to act as an adapter.

 

Good thinking....

[diesel falcon]

Good old enfields!! ,i installed an enfield z drive and mated it to a ford transit engine, only mod require was the flywheel drilled to take the coupling, i would suggest you have this done by someone  with a lathe ect to get it bang on, you can go direct to the factory.......http://www.bobknowles.demon.co.uk/prod01.htm  as long as the old bustard is still there!! (bob knowles that is)

[JawsOrca]

Thanks guys, We are certainly aiming for these now as an evening of research this seem to the logical idea. The pros and cons that I can all still add up.  Even just considering the cost and hassle of just getting the engine out and down to lancing! We would want to tear out the the new transom and replace though which isn't a biggy although that epoxy is as strong as concrete and we will need to replace the glass on the outside neatly which maybe hard to get perfect.

 

(thanks for bobs details there, I'm aim towards him if we get one).

 

Does anyone have experience of sonic (transa) drives as at the moment these are all I can find though (And I've found two).  I understand they are similar but are they just as good?

[diesel falcon]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Enfield-stern-drive-for-boat-enfield/191066117707?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3D4874060022183596021%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107083358%26rk%3D0%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D181080234608

 

this shows the set up, the conection between the coupling and flywheel looks like a stub axle whech bolts onto the wheel

[Guest]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Enfield-stern-drive-for-boat-enfield/191066117707?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222006%26algo%3DSIC.FITP%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140107083358%26meid%3D4874060022183596021%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D20140107083358%26rk%3D0%26rkt%3D10%26sd%3D181080234608

 

this shows the set up, the conection between the coupling and flywheel looks like a stub axle whech bolts onto the wheel

 

 

You just beat me to it DF.

 

If going for that particular one on Ebay though, it's worth noting that the seller has mentioned the photo is not of the one he's selling, but a similar model.

 

They do seem to come up on Ebay frequently though, if you click "completed listings", several have recently been sold, for around the same money.

[JawsOrca]

Yes that's the first one we noticed... The chap does have both though.. Theres a sonic drive for sale in our yard but its casing is damaged though but it was rebuild just before it was damaged so it would make good spares although to me the Enfield seems to hold its value and better well known so not sure.. I'm talking to this guy in manchester though and may go up and have a look.. I've never been to manchester..

[Guest]

There's usually a few on "Boats and Outboards", but there's only a pair on there at the moment, (for £1500 each !  , wow.... )

 

http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/stern-drive/enfield-130-stern-drive-leg-PAA87809

[JawsOrca]

We saw them two.. They are that price because they are new with bronze casing! A tad overkill..!

[JawsOrca]

Hello all,

 

I have a couple of quick questions..Hopefully someone can help! We are just wondering where we put the (2 or 3) batteries and where we put the gas bottle... As far as I understand both of these need to be (for Boat safety certificate) above the waterline and vented to the outside world and ideally not in the engine bay.

 

On most boats (we have seen) they hide the batteries under the step in the wheelhouse but we don't have a step as the back seat makes up the step. So could we "get away with" and by this I mean, I actually agree with the BSC (although some parts are a bit overkill) so is it safe to put the batteries in the engine bay (maybe in its own sealed box with a vent outside the hull).

 

For the gas bottle though, I'm a bit stumped.. We will do a swindeck but I hate seeing gas bottles hanging of theses. The only other way I can think of (like we have on the sailing boat) is to make a locker in the back bench, which is made of timber but then covered in epoxy so its sealed to the hull, we then vent out via the locker at the bottom. (although this is a bit of work)..So the bottle will enter the locker from a top lid which is part of the bench lid.. Any other ideas?

 

Thanks in advance

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Alan,

 

If you have to put the batteries in the engine bay, put them in a box with a sealed lid that has a 12 volt extractor fitted so you can duct the gases overboard. With regards to the gas you will need a vented outside locker to be safe. 

 

Regards

Alan

[diesel falcon]

Hello Alan,

 

If you have to put the batteries in the engine bay, put them in a box with a sealed lid that has a 12 volt extractor fitted so you can duct the gases overboard. With regards to the gas you will need a vented outside locker to be safe. 

 

Regards

Alan

You can have your batteries in the engine bay in a battery box, or strapped down , the only thing the bss is consirned with is that the terminals are insulated or covered, there,s no gases produced by a sealed for life battery unless they vent under extreme circumstances, they are then useless anyway, that is for pleassure boats mybe the test is more strick on hire boats ect.

Gas locker   http://www.force4.co.uk/339/Force-4-Gas-Bottle-Locker.html

[diesel falcon]

Forgot to add the fan is only required if your charging at a rate of 150amps@13.8 volts