Hello and some advice please

[kathleenp]

Hi There just to introduce ourselves and say Hi to everyone. This is all very new to us but my daughter and I have been considering getting a boat on the broads for a long time. We decided to take the plunge (no pun intended) and have seen 2 sports cruisers we like the look of one is a 1998 Sea Ray 270 with Twin Mercruiser 4.3 ltr 180hp Petrol engines the other is a very slightly smaller local built Barnes Falcon with a single nanni diesel engine about 2 years newer. 

They both look the part in terms of what we want to do - never likely to go out to sea and budget wise around the same price. The Sea Ray looks much nicer and sportier however the downside is the engine being petrol as we have heard about all the problems getting fuel anywhere. My daughter and I are both into our performace cars so you can imagine we dont always go for the economical options so any advice at the moment would be very welcome - thank you  

[JawsOrca]

Welcome to the forum

 

I'm not based on the broads so don't know about the whole story on petrol availability (although I hear the same rumours and stories of people walking to petrol stations, I'm sure someone will advise further) but just to say that the searay 270 is one of my favorites although I wouldn't have it on the broads (The med somewhere definitely (greek islands.. sun... lovely!) but two v8s on the broads are just a waste in my opinion (unless you do go to sea with her). A diesel engine would be much better (my boat is meant to have a v8 petrol  but as it will be used on the broads/thames we went with a little 30hp diesel instead).

[kathleenp]

Thanks Alan thats what I'm thinking - esp as the swim platform at the back is totally wasted! I think at some point we would like to go to sea but for now we have too much to learn.

[donnygeoff]

I don't know much about these boats, but I know a member on here has I believe a diesel falcon.......

 

come on Trev (AKA dieselfalcon)

 

Give the ladies your thoughts......

 

Oh and welcome to the forum Kathleenp

 

[Happy]

Hi.  The Barnes built boat was made for 'Broads' use and will be ideal if this is the type of boat you are looking for.  You don't only have to think about buying the boat but maybe selling it again at a later date and I know that the Barnes would be easier to sell.  Go for it! you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago.  Happy sailing.  Regards Alan. 

[Hockham Admiral]

Welcome aboard from us, Kathleen!  :clap

 

The Searay would impracticable 'cos the speed limits are pretty draconian and even Breydon Water is now policed by the Broads Authority. So at the 4, 5 and 6 mph limits I doubt it would do twin petrol engines a lot of good running at tickover most of the time.

 

Also I'd recommend traditional shaft drive rather than outlegs for the Broads.. much easier when mooring stern-on!

 

Whatever, you'll get lots of advice on this topic!  

[kathleenp]

Thanks everyone for the welcomes and the good advice, I think you have helped me make up my mind. And agree about the Searay being wasted on the broads - so we will dip our toe in the water with the falcon (so many opportunities for puns !!) and get some experience under our belts then start planning for something more adventurous in a couple of years... cant wait now !!

[quo vadis]

Denzal Fallout will be along shortly

[MBA Marine]

If you you want to stay on the Broads then the twin mercruiser is not a good idea, waste of the engines petrol is hard to get also you are likely to have loads of issues with the merc's ignition and wiring.

 

This boat (link below) has single Nanni and has been loved and well kept, (the pick looks like its on a green carpet but the weed is all gone now!)

 

http://broadlandyachtbrokers.co.uk/boats/170

[diesel falcon]

Hellow and welcome, as has been said i run a Falcon 27 at the moment, twin mercruiser diesels, it,s very good on fuel and if your feeling the pinch you can always turn one off on long cruises on the broads(port on mine as starboard does the power steering),turning the other on for mooring.  Food for thought, long way off but how about this?  http://www.boatshed.com/falcon_27-boat-163512.html ,

The only reservation i would have with the single would be mooring, more difficult as Facon hulls are sports cruisers, and as such get blown about in the wind at slow speeds. The boat your looking at is not a pure Falcon boat but was built using the old hull mould ,but different moulds for the interier(better use of space imho).

For the broads use only go for the single, if you buy a twin , you have the ability to poke your nose out of the piers at gt yarmouth  

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Kathleen,

 

Welcome to the forum from Tan & myself.

 

I think all the other forum members have given you advice re the pitfalls of petrol engine on the Broads and the lack of places to actually run them.

 

Regards

Alan

[littlesprite]

Hello Kathleen,

I can't really say a lot more than previous posters but I'll waffle on anyway.

 

Before deciding on the boat you like, think about how and where you want to use it, there are speed limits on the broads so excessive power can be a waste, low bridges in many of the most beautiful stretches of the rivers will prevent boats of a certain height reaching them, will you cook on board or eat ashore, how many berths do you need.

Once you know what you would like to do with the boat then you can look for the one that is best suited.

[Guest]

..... one is a 1998 Sea Ray 270 with Twin Mercruiser 4.3 ltr 180hp Petrol engines the other is a very slightly smaller local built Barnes Falcon with a single nanni diesel engine about 2 years newer........ 

 

Although the Broads has two river mouths, (Yarmouth and Lowestoft), the coastal access is much more hazardous than almost anywhere else around the UK.  We have no sheltered estuaries to give a nice easy transition from River to Sea, and there is no shelter whatsoever when you pass out through Yarmouth or Lowestoft pier heads, and the area has many dangerous shoals.

 

Once out, the nearest bolt holes if the weather turns are Southwold to the South or Wells to the North West, with tricky entrances.  No problem for anyone with Sea experience and a well found boat, but hazardous for anyone with less experience.

 

It's totally different to areas like the Solent, or Mersea for instance.This means that although the Broads is full of Seagoing boats, very few do actually venture out. 

 

My apologies if you are experienced in coastal navigation and passage making, but it's worth mentioning all of that, because you need to consider carefully how much you compromise your choice of boat to have Seagoing capability, when you might  never venture out.

 

Of the two boats you've shortlisted, the one with the two 180hp petrol engines will have many drawbacks for Broads only use, as you suspect and as others have said on here.

 

Waterside petrol supply is indeed almost non-existent, and the only place where you can open up above 6mph is Breydon Water (so far), which is only a few miles long.

 

I disagree with some of the comments about "Sports Cruiser" design being no good for the Broads though.

 

A swim platform is perfect for the Broads, for a completely different reason to it's named use.  It makes Stern-to mooring very safe and convenient, giving level access from shore to cockpit through the usual half door access.

 

I also refute the frequently alleged drawback  of stern drives, since the platform protects the protruding legs from rear impact when berthing stern-on, or from damage by other craft whilst moored side-on. They are also a huge sfatey feature if anyone should fall in, making boarding so much easier from the water, or a dinghy.

 

The high viewpoint of the raised wheel position of sports cruisers is another plus point, for seeing over the reeds etc., giving centre cockpit visibility to stern cockpit boats

 

A diesel engine is better than petrol on the Broads in most respects, (eg fuel as already mentioned), but shouldn't be ruled out completely, since they do have some advantages.  Much quieter than most diesels, they can be run at tickover with no damaging bore-glazing, which diesels do invariably suffer from.

 

I've been running a 23ft sports cruiser with a 200hp V6 petrol engine on the Broads for several years now, and I've found it well suited to my needs, compared with other craft I've owned, including ex-hire diesel cruisers.

 

It cruises at 6mph at 1200 rpm, where the engine is barely audible, and uses about half a gallon per hour, so the 40 gallon tank gives me a range of the entire length of the Broads and back - twice over.

 

Best of all though, it was much cheaper to buy secondhand than the diesel powered equivalent, because of the stigma against petrol.

 

Having said all that, I definitely wouldn't buy a twin 180hp petrol boat just for the Broads though !  

[jillR]

welcome from me to
 

[Guest]

Hi and welcome from us..... whichever boat you decide on just enjoy it.

[650xs]

get a boaq toe dipper or huge ole job ..............its yer choice ......

 

 

get a trip on a sports cruiser on the broads and see how they handle and make yer own mind up.....................

 

 

 

welcome to the broads world ....................................

 

 

like Jamaica, slow ole pace but  with out the temp ..........................easy goin and take it easy .....................no worries man .........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

have some lesson from some one to teach yer how to handle said craft too and see.....

 

 

regards and enjoy ...............................from the local numptie boot yard 

[Mowjo]

Welcome from me as well Kathleen, as pointed out you may be limited to where you go on the Broads because of the height of some boats, one thing no-one has mentioned here so far is the cost of servicing outdrives, I believe from what I've read on here before it can be £500 plus per leg, I'm sure someone will have a better costing, personally I'd say don't rush into buying a boat, try and get to the Broads for a couple of days and have a wander around a couple of marinas, talk to people in the know like Jon from Wayford and they will advise you on what suits your needs, I've done it myself! seen what I thought was the ideal boat  only to end up with a totally different boat, you and your daughter may like performance cars but trust me! there's nothing fast about the Broads unless you count Mac D's at Wroxham, I'm on boat number six now and my needs have changed on every one, I learnt years ago it's not about how bling your boat is or how big, it's how you use and enjoy it, you'll soon learn within a short time that there is rest of the World time and Norfolk time, in a hurry here means sometime this year but remind me in six months, so as I say take your time, and have a look at other options before you decide anything,,,

 

Frank,,,,,

[Guest]

..... one thing no-one has mentioned here so far is the cost of servicing outdrives, I believe from what I've read on here before it can be £500 plus per leg.......

 

 

Frank is quite right there, I must admit.

 

Outdrives give excellent maneuverability, forwards and backwards, as the thrust can be directly vectored, rather than "bounced" by the rudder.

 

As he says though, they can be very expensive if they are poorly maintained, as some are very sophisticated pieces of machinery, like my Volvo "duoprop" with contra rotating propellers. 

 

I'm lucky that I'm a bit of an Anorak with mechanical things, so I do all of more own maintenance. If one had to pay for professional servicing or repairs though, they can be horrendously expensive, particularly if neglected, which is unfortunately frequently the case.

 

If you do the servicing yourself, bellows and even UJ's cost only a few pounds to replace, but professional labour brings it way up into three figures....

[kathleenp]

Thank you everyone for the great response. We have had a look round a few more and even ventured further afield to see a couple that were recomended. In terms of what we want, which is really just having some lazy days on the broads we decided on the Falcon. Its a nice clean little boat that seems to have been taken care of and suits our basic needs.

 

We had a friend in the know who was going to come up and give it the once over for us - but he let us down at the last minute. Is there anyone on here who could help us out or anyone you guys can recommened who could take a look over it for us who wont charge and arm and a leg?  - its all been serviced recently, anti fouled and had a new canopy 2 years ago.

Thanks x

[BuffaloBill]

HI from me too.

Is it you that has put in an offer on the Barnes Falcon?

It used to be in our moorings (Barnes) on the river front

and has been for sale for a while now.

Nice boat and was well looked after by the previous

owner but may need a good clean by now I think.

I would strongly recommend a full survey by someone

such as Steve Truss. See here:-

http://steve-insightmarinesurveyor.blogspot.co.uk/

He has done 2 boats for us and on the first one, saved

us making a HUGE mistake and told us to walk away!!

The one shown in the link above was in our mooring briefly

before being put up for sale, so shows what he does, and found.

If you email him, he will give you a guide price for the job.

Do keep us informed how it goes. 

(Oh, forgot to mention...we have a similar boat to the one being surveyed)

[MBA Marine]

Its difficult for me to recommend someone as it might look like advertising.

[donnygeoff]

Its difficult for me to recommend someone as it might look like advertising.

well I don't advertise......

But why not get in contact with Mark, at MBA Marine, maybe he can help

PS, Just puzzled as to who is the daughter and who is the mother, look like twins (sorry if that offends the daughter, but mother will be happy  )

 

[Guest]

I'd echo Buffolo Bill's basic suggestion, it would be quite a risk to buy a boat without a full  professional survey.

 

It will cost a few hundred pounds, but quite a small amount proportional to the cost of the boat.

 

Even if a knowledgeable friend could be pressed into service, a professional survey would include a degree of liability insurance if they missed something expensive.

[Soundings]

Glad you used the word "degree" when embracing liability insurance, Strowager The qualifications and escape clauses in those surveys is scary. That said, I fully agree a good surveyor is worth his/her weight and especially so to the uninitiated.

[BuffaloBill]

The attached photo show the state of the skeg, and this was one of the better

things he showed us! He found out that it had been sunk twice and had so

much osmosis that he believed it weighed an extra half to three quarters of a ton!

The hole in the hull which was the cause of the sinking had been repaired with

car body filler (P38, a paste, not fibreglass) and carefully hidden with paint!

If the survey costs you a couple of hundred pounds or so, it will be money well

spent as we found out.