Where?

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Having just looked at the picture for the first time, it looks to me tobe the Haddiscoe swing bidge taken from the Northside, or from down river, heading up river or south. It looks exactly like what you see when you come down the new cut and turn right  towards Oulton and beccles. I think the river is too straight and too wide to be Aldeby?.

[Guest]

As has already been thought of, is it possible the photo is reversed ?

 

Since the swing bridge is the likeliest way of nailing the location, here it is, enhanced, from Carol's photo, original and flipped.

 

Is it possible to scan that part of the neg at a higher resolution ? 

 

Most plate cameras gave excellent resolution, being of larger size than roll film.

 

Or in fact, was this scan already at a higher resolution, and been reduced by the forum software ? Is it possible to put it online somewhere, at original size ?

 

I've enlarged this section by a factor of three, which has degraded it quite a lot.

 

There's a good chance of getting much more detail of the bridge, the camera appears to have been in a tripod.

[Guest]

This is indeed like a crossword puzzle !

 

I've been musing over the enhanced bridge sections, and it occurs to me that the signal box is much further back from the swing opening than I've seen on most Broadland bridges.

 

At Haddiscoe, Reedham, St Olaves, etc.. the signal box is within one opening span's length of the opening span, whereas this one is two or three lengths back.  It's something that's unlikely to ever have be moved as well.

 

Also, there definitely does seem to be a pylon like structure in the background, even though it seems unlikely for the period. 

[AdnamsGirl]

Sorry for the delay in responding further but I've not had the chance to look into this any further yet.

 

Peter - I think I have an old AOL email address for Jamie Campbell but don't know whether that is still active. Please feel free to pass on the photo or post it elsewhere.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have the original negatives so cannot scan it to get a better resolution. To be honest, these have been lurking in the depths of my computer for so long, I can't remember where they came from either! They may well have just been up for sale on Ebay at some point.

 

I haven't managed to find any really old photos of the Haddiscoe or Somerleyton rail bridges yet & don't really know enough of the history of the Haddiscoe rail line to know when bridges, buildings etc. may have been replaced. I think that Somerleyton bridge was replaced along with the Reedham Bridge c1905. A quick Google brings up mention that the original Haddiscoe station was closed in 1904 in favour of using the High Level Station where the signal box we know stands today. Could it be possible that the current signal box was not built until that time as it is likely that my photo could predate that. As has been said, there is always a possibility that the negative was scanned in reverse (thanks for flipping it Strowager) ... or that it may not actually be the Broads. Flipping the photo does make the chappie with the gun left handed though. The mystery Pylon like structure in the background is odd. A mill of some sort perhaps? It looks too uniform a shape to put down to be a bit of muck or damage on the original negative, but that is always a possibility too I suppose.

[LizG]

I was about to write that I had gone for Reedham for the following reasons but now I just can't work out the right bank, there is too much viaduct visible for Reedham. The old bridge started right by the pub?

 

My initial arguments were:

Even if the photo was reversed the current works at Haddiscoe are some distance away.

 

The attached images, the old map from 1928 shows a distinct building just under the approach to the bridge on the left side and even in the modern aerial photos there looks like some evidence of something having been close to the bridge but this isn't visible of any of the old photos of the bridge?

 

The old pictures show no signal box on the left side

 

The jury remains out? 

[LizG]

I also did a search on Google images for railway swing bridges on all river systems and nothing came up with the right vista

[AdnamsGirl]

I think the jury does remain out at the moment. I am still sort of erring towards Reedham, but am not entirely convinced and will keep looking for photos of the other bridges in the hope of finding something that matches.

[LizG]

I found this image on Ebay.......... there are links on St Olaves village website to another image. (Nothing on the Belton village website)

 

I do wonder whether the 'pylons' are signals as they appear to be quite tall in some images because of the incline approaching the bridges from the marshes

[LizG]

Found two more images of Haddiscoe on Ebay and this link to some pictures of Reedham, showing probably a row of railway cottages but not chimneys. Think there was similar cottages at Somerleyton??

 

If I can get it to work? You need to scroll down the page

 

http://reedham.info/swing-bridge.htm

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Carol,

 

Could the bridge be the one going into Beccles?

 

I have been looking at all of the current bridges and the disused bridges and none have pillars on both sides of the bridges.

 

Have a look in this link:-

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1927v143-p176.jpg

Regards

Alan

[LizG]

I love these old photos, I had never seen one of Aldeby/Beccles before and had no appreciation of the original length. Where the river is now, the banks are now tree lined and only a short area is visible. I remember seeing both Aldeby and Haddiscoe when the railway was closed but the bridge still visible (I think). I found another picture on Ebay (and realise that it was called Beccles swing bridge not Aldeby).

 

However, back to the original image, there is still the issue of the buildings in the foreground and can find no evidence on the old maps of anything on this side of the river. There appears to be an old steam pump on the Beccles side left bank though but nothing at Somerleyton or Haddiscoe, Reedham is the only one with building....

[Guest]

I wondered about Aldeby Bridge myself.

 

Google Earth historical data has this grainy aerial view from 1945.

 

The signal box is in the right place, but there's no sign of the extensive buildings on the left of the river in the middle distance.

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Coincidently I went past the old Aldeby swing bridge today, not convinced that that could be the one. Relatively low piers and the river is not hugely wide at that point. I'm more inclined to go with the Haddiscoe railway bridge theory myself. Lots of sheds on the old NRA site.

[Guest]

........ I'm more inclined to go with the Haddiscoe railway bridge theory myself. Lots of sheds on the old NRA site.

 

That's a definite possibility I think, Peter.

 

The 1945 Google earth imagary of Haddiscoe swing bridge fits with Carol's mystery photo quite well.

 

If you look at it from the downstream side, the bend in the river is wrong, but when you flip the photo from left to right, it fits quite well.

 

The Google aerial image is from 1945, whereas the photo is presumably several decades earlier, so maybe that's why the buildings are missing ?  The aerial photo shows extensive ground disturbance where they would have been.

 

It's possible that it was taken somewhere near the red "X".

[NorfolkNog]

I must say that I tend to favour Haddiscoe – as Peter says the river looks too wide to be Aldeby.

 

 

The viaduct piers look more like Haddiscoe although the signal box appears to be on the outside of the bend in the river in Carol’s photo although it seems to be on the inside on these recent ones. Most intriguing.

[AdnamsGirl]

A quickie as I'm a bit tied up today, but I had a look at the late 19thC and the 1901 ordnance survey maps and there does appear to be a small range of buildings marked in that area. No mention of there being any sort of mill, but the chimney could be industrial rather than steam mill related. Bryants 1826 map shows a mill standing in that spot, marked as being "Grimmers Mill". I haven't been able to find out any more about this.

 

I've attached a photo which does, and doesn't help! This is a still from my 1930s cine footage which shows the Haddiscoe lifting bridge, looking back towards the rail bridge which you can just about make out in the background. What it does show is a small glimpse of buildings on the right hand side, between the two bridges. Unfortunately, there is not enough seen to be able to confirm whether they were the same buildings, but evidence at least that there were some in the right area.

 

 

 

[LizG]

Don't forget the old photo was taken prior to new swing bridges being built. In the case of Aldeby, there was a realignment of track and new buttresses (old track visible in Pathe news and on maps) and I expect that applied to all the bridges. Also despite the river being narrow at Aldeby today, the link the other day clearly shows a wide bridge.

 

We have buildings on the Yarmouth side of the Yare at Reedham and buildings on the left bank on the New Cut side of the Waveney at Haddiscoe. There were some buildings on the Beccles side looking upstream at Aldeby shown on the maps.

 

The picture indicates a possible hill/tree line on the right side of the picture which means that the marsh is on the left so the picture is looking up stream at Aldeby or Reedham or down stream at Haddiscoe (St. Olaves) or Somerleyton.

 

Does anyone have any old photos of Somerleyton?

 

Jury still well and truly out!

[AdnamsGirl]

I can't find any older photos of Somerleyton at the moment .. or Haddiscoe or Aldeby. I know I have a few later images of the Haddiscoe and Aldeby swing bridges but haven't had the chance to dig them out yet.

 

I've done a little more searching into the possibility of it being Haddiscoe. I found an article online by Mike Sparkes which makes mention of a Grimes Mill at Haddiscoe which was later replaced by a steam mill. It may well be that this is what was marked on Bryants 1826 map as Grimmers Mill. This was marked as being in the right location to fit the buildings in my photo if the image has been reversed.

 

http://www.sailing-by.org.uk/content/passage-yarmouth

 

That's quite an interesting article anyway

 

 

The Broads Authority Character Assessment for the River Waveney between Norton Marshes and the dismantled railway mentions that there were several lost drainage mill sites within the area including at least three steam mills.

 

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/412879/Area_16_-_Yare_and_Waveney_-_Norton_Marshes_to_Haddiscoe_Dismantled_Railway_Line.pdf  (Link to PDF)

 

It seems possible that there would have been a steam mill on that spot which would explain the chimney in the original photo if it has been reversed.

 

My only reservations about the image having been flipped is the chap with the gun, who now appears to be left handed. It's perfectly possible of course that he was left handed, but statistically more likely that he was right handed.

 

Or maybe that's why the photo was scanned the wrong way ... because it was presumed he was right handed?

 

 

Who knows! I can't work out any other way to tell whether the image had been reversed.

[JennyMorgan]

Carol, if you have the original photographic plate then the emulsion should face forwards when you copy it.

[LizG]

I think we are getting close.............

 

For those that have a copy of Roy Clark's Black Sailed Traders, go to page 129 and look at the top photo opposite.

 

Titled........... "The New Cut, Haddiscoe, A photograph taken more than fifty years ago, showing the arctic conditions often met with;"

 

Its too faint I think to scan but in the distance is a trestle bridge and on the right bank is a building with sheds and chimney!!!! Okay it could be either way up the New Cut but on the left side is a hillside (lacking in trees then) and faintly visible a building probably of the big house on the hillside at St Olaves?
( I have scanned it but not very successfully so do look at the original if you have a copy)

 

So is the same view and was the original plate transposed? Only thought is that the New Cut is 'pretty' straight but the view in the original - the river bends but hey ho!

[JennyMorgan]

Thanks, Mrs Album, for the nudge in the right direction. Have taken the liberty of jiggering with a scan to see if I could pull more info out of the book's picture.

 

[JennyMorgan]

I'm a glutton for old Broads pictures & I rather like the above so thought a touch of sepia 'aging' wouldn't be out of place.

 

[BroadAmbition]

I'm not sure either!  but aside from that - great thread with some very good informative photo's all the same

 

 

Griff

[LizG]

Never wishing to give up on a subject................I found another book I have at home of old railway postcards. Titled Norfolk Railways ~ Volume 1 ~ The Great Eastern Railway and there within the numerous photos of old long gone stations was a picture on page 26 of the OLD Haddiscoe Swing Bridge.  Not that it helps with the identification but thought some might find it interesting!

Liz

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Liz,

 

Well that now puts a completely different slant on the story. The trestles used on this earlier bridge may be somewhat more like Carol's original picture. The more modern bridge with its embankment and the more modern signal box were not in keeping with the original picture.

 

Regards

Alan