Owning a boat, annual costs.

[Rincewind]

Which is precisely why it's essential to have a survey before parting with any readies...

[Rincewind]

 

What actually gives me a lot of annoyance is the many boats that are moored out there not being used but taking up valuable marina space

You might want to rethink your position in that one...if they were all out on the river you'd struggle to find space to moor your hire boat. Be careful what you wish for...

[MauriceMynah]

I like my boat, but I do not cherish it. I cherish my time on the water which the boat facilitates. That's why my boat spends most of it's life needing a damned good clean.

[Mowjo]

Cat among the Pigeons time, you just knew I would do it didn't you? can someone please explain what a survey actually proves?? for me the only thing they are needed for is insurance with some company's, or if you are a first time buyer, on sea going boats I can see it, but on Broads or inland ones I see no point, you pay £500 for the lift out and survey but what does the survey actually tell you? if it has a fairly new BSS all the safety issues like fuel tanks, electrics and gas are covered by that, most people know if the engine is ok just by running it and listening to it! you can see if the woodwork is rotten just by poking it or looking at it, so what's left? the Hull and prop shaft, people get scared by Osmosis anyone ever heard of a boat sinking because of it? even some new boats have it after a year or two, do you really need a surveyor to tell you your 30 year old boat has some? if the prop-shaft or prop is on the way out you can normally tell because of the vibration from them, I've never needed a survey and don't trust them, I know at least two people that paid a lot for one only for serious problems to happen a few weeks/months down the line that should have been picked up by the survey, did they have any come back, no! because the survey is subject to the Surveyors view and what one will say is fine another will condemn, if you buy a fifteen year old car you know you will have problems with it, yet people buy boats that are anything from twenty to fifty years old and expect everything to be like new and no problems, I certainly wouldn't waste money on a survey for a boat under 10k unless I was totally new to boating, I just can't see what a survey proves now we have the BSS and common sense, if something doesn't feel right about a boat when you buy it, trust your gut feeling your probably right,, don't worry I have broad shoulders and can take the flack I'm going to get from this one,,

 

Frank,,,

[Rincewind]

I had a feeling you'd bite, Frank!

[Mowjo]

Nah! I never bite Rince, I'm just curious why people put so much faith in Surveys now we have the BSS, the guy that did mine went over it with a fine toothed comb, the only thing he didn't check was the hull and prop, so I can't see why insurance company's insist on surveys on inland boats,

 

Frank,,,, 

[watershed]

With you all the way,Frank. I'm sure a surveyor will be along to tell us you're wrong but i for one am in total agreement.

[Polly]

I cherish our boat, it's not cheap, and we are not wealthy, so there is no good economic argument for having Brilliant. I would say we have her in trust, because she is a piece of Broads history.

Benefits?

Great sailing

A real 'country cottage' complete with beams!

A resource shared with family and friends

We can go for a weekend, a week or longer, the choice so ours.

An ongoing project full of interest.

I feel good just thinking about her!

[watershed]

I know it's exactly how you feel. My boat is 52 years old,and not really a classic but i would never give her up without a fight. To me,she is freedom,a sanctuary,an escape from everyday stress.I step on board and smile

[Rincewind]

Similar thing near us, Dave. We haven't seen the chap's boat turn a prop this year but he does come down regularly and stays on board so he's happy with his setup and why not? His choice and his right.

[Matt]

I have a spreadsheet on which I keep my invoices related to Thunder. We bought a two week share that allows us one week in Spring and one week in Summer every year.

 

We purchased the share for £3,500 and i am confident we could get more on resale.

 

Bought the share in 2011 and since then we have spent just short of £3,000 including our Admin charges to BCBM but not fuel and pumpouts, car parking is free and we have to clean the outside of the boat at the end of our week and make our own beds-duvets and pillows are on-board. For that price we have been able to use our allocated weeks and a few spare weeks that were not being used. 

 

We have had the following weeks on-board:

20th August 2011 17th September 31st March 2012 18th August 2012 30th March 2013 20th July 2013 5th April 2014 25th July 2014-Two weeks

 

So 9 weeks afloat for £3,000 is £333 a week if you want to include capital outlay (which we will get back on resale) it is £722 per week.

 

Herbert woods have the same design boat (Moon Emblem, now Jasmine Emblem) and to hire that boat for the same weeks as he have been on-board Thunder would have cost £12,048 although for the last few years that would have included the fuel-for the earlier years it excluded the fuel deposit.

 

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Just wish that buses had free to use ball hitches then I could trailer-sail my Drascombe across England!

 

 

Poole Harbour and its nooks and crannies is very pleasant Peter, but alas, like you, i have`nt seen any busses or coaches with tow hooks.  

 

I did read an interesting thread however about a couple who transported their boat down to the south coast by road for one season, as it worked out cheaper than cruising round. From the Broads that is.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I know, Jim. It was a bit tongue in cheek!

 

Would be good to see you back some time. We always try to look after repeat customers.

 

As for boat ownership and green boats (by that I mean boats going green through lack of use) you have only to look at my personal boats to see what I mean. I have a yacht in my garden that's so green now, it's virtually hidden in the trees, and a cabin cruiser on the hard at the yard that is in a pretty poor state now through lack of use. Would dearly love to use either, but I have no time due to work commitments. I suspect it's a similar story with boats on moorings everywhere...

 

 

A classic example of how bad boats can deteriorate without use is the old "Riverine" boats on the hard at Loddon. I still think it`s a disgrace to allow perfectly serviceable boats to get into that state.

 

I asked John from Maffetts if they would be worth doing up, and was told they needed so much work it would`nt be financially viable, for a hire fleet that is, well, not unless they were GIVEN to you. But then as Andy says (Freedom) you then have to spare the time to carry out the work.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Cat among the Pigeons time, you just knew I would do it didn't you? can someone please explain what a survey actually proves?? for me the only thing they are needed for is insurance with some company's, or if you are a first time buyer, on sea going boats I can see it, but on Broads or inland ones I see no point, you pay £500 for the lift out and survey but what does the survey actually tell you? if it has a fairly new BSS all the safety issues like fuel tanks, electrics and gas are covered by that, most people know if the engine is ok just by running it and listening to it! you can see if the woodwork is rotten just by poking it or looking at it, so what's left? the Hull and prop shaft, people get scared by Osmosis anyone ever heard of a boat sinking because of it? even some new boats have it after a year or two, do you really need a surveyor to tell you your 30 year old boat has some? if the prop-shaft or prop is on the way out you can normally tell because of the vibration from them, I've never needed a survey and don't trust them, I know at least two people that paid a lot for one only for serious problems to happen a few weeks/months down the line that should have been picked up by the survey, did they have any come back, no! because the survey is subject to the Surveyors view and what one will say is fine another will condemn, if you buy a fifteen year old car you know you will have problems with it, yet people buy boats that are anything from twenty to fifty years old and expect everything to be like new and no problems, I certainly wouldn't waste money on a survey for a boat under 10k unless I was totally new to boating, I just can't see what a survey proves now we have the BSS and common sense, if something doesn't feel right about a boat when you buy it, trust your gut feeling your probably right,, don't worry I have broad shoulders and can take the flack I'm going to get from this one,,

 

Frank,,,

 

 

No flack from me Frank, i tend to agree with you. I do believe that now we have BSS requirements on inland boats, why do we need surveys.

[Polly]

We tow the Whimp and have sailed the Carrick Roads and Coniston in her.

[Polly]

BSSC doesn't check woodies for rot!

[Mowjo]

The Funny thing is Polly, it was a surveyor checking a woody that first made me wonder about them, here's the picture, Wayford Marina around 30 years ago, big old woody out for a survey, Surveyor, new owner and me! surveyor starts his checks, new owner and me sitting on oil cans drinking tea, Surveyor appears two hours later and tells new owner everything inside seems fine but he did find some minor rot and a bit of damp in one cabin but it's nothing worth worrying about, more tea and surveyor starts on the outside, what's that I say to him! Oh it's a damp tester you stick the prongs in and it tells you how damp something is, owner and me watching intently and listening as it bleeped away while he was testing just above the waterline, the next sentence from the surveyor had me rolling on the floor, his exact words were! "You have severe damp from the waterline down, I kid you not, me being my usual smart A**e said to him "No S**t Sherlock you do know the boat was only lifted four hours ago do you think that could be anything to do with it? silence and more tea! new owner say to me do you think he knows what he's doing, I say you hired him you tell me, we wander off and leave him to it, off the surveyor goes and a few days later the report was in, he gave it a clean bill of health apart from the little bit of rot no mention of the wet waterline, and no mention of the cutlass bearing that was severely worn and only held on by one single bolt or the loose rudder caused by rot, something I personally discovered a month later when I was helping the new owner anti-foul the boat, the new owner tried to get his money back from the surveyor even resorting to legal threats but no joy nothing, I can't remember exactly how much the repairs cost the new owner but was over 1k the whole of the Stern around the rudder stock and where the cutlass bearing bracket fitted were rotten and you could actually stick a screwdriver right through the hull, and to this day that's the reason I don't trust surveyors, now I know enough about boats to do my own survey and stick to insurance company's that don't need one,,,

 

Frank,,, 

[JennyMorgan]

A classic example of how bad boats can deteriorate without use is the old "Riverine" boats on the hard at Loddon. I still think it`s a disgrace to allow perfectly serviceable boats to get into that state.

I know Bill at the old Riverine yard, grand old fellow, like him a lot. He has his reasons for allowing his boats to deteriorate as they have. At one time I understand it was his intention to tart them up, one at a time, but I don't think that he factored anno domini into the equation, great shame and I suspect the deterioration  is a great worry to him.

[VetChugger]

Another one supporting what Frank is saying about surveys and my views come from actual experience!  I spent in excess of £15K on restoration work including some £6K plus just on rotten wood. Imagine my horror when, less than three months after this was completed a huge area of rot in the wheelhouse was discovered that had been missed! Initially I was told "tough luck" but I wasn't going to accept this and pursued this via the "International Institute Of Marine Surveyors" which is the sort of "OFTEL" of surveyors. This resulted in my getting a large proportion of the work done at the surveyors expense but not all and not with good feeling either! This was a very well known local surveyor so beware!

[Polly]

Well, yes, I tend to rely on a boatyard survey these days. I think my point was that the BSSC, although covering safety aspects, doesn't cover the other stuff I really want to know about.

[JennyMorgan]

Well, yes, I tend to rely on a boatyard survey these days. I think my point was that the BSSC, although covering safety aspects, doesn't cover the other stuff I really want to know about.

I agree with Polly on this one, and seemingly so does our insurer.

[Mowjo]

Peter! I think most insurers insist on surveys and I don't disagree that on a Woodie it might be a wise choice, what I want to know is what does a survey actually prove?? are they like MOT's and only valid until the car leaves the forecourt? if the surveyor misses something and a couple of months down the line your boat sank, how would you stand with your insurance company? we all know they will try anything to get out of paying out, so would they just say tough it was Ok when it was surveyed, as I said the BSS takes of the safety side of things so does a survey just tell you if your Woodie is rotten?

 

Frank,,,,

[JennyMorgan]

Frank, a boatyard survey will tell you what needs to be done to your boat, especially valuable if the yard is one that you both trust and work with. Even more useful if the boatyard goes through the boat with you present so you can see and understand what the problems are. 

[Mowjo]

Peter! am I getting mixed up here?? are boatyard surveys the same as the one insurers require, I know what you mean about trust Jon pointed out all the things that need doing on my new/old boat, but I was under the impression that insurers needed a professional survey, I trust what the boatyard tells me because I know and trust most of them, it's the so called Pro Surveyors I have problems with,,,

 

Frank,,,,

[JennyMorgan]

Frank, all I can say is that our insurer, a leading marine insurer, is more than happy with a boatyard report, and that is on a 108 year old boat.