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FreedomBoatingHols

Witnesses sought

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With the likes of YouTube etc, getting a video across to a mass audience is not so difficult.  You still cannot make folk watch them mind...

 

I've suggested to Richardsons (via the feedback form) that for me, personally, having made a right t!t of myself in tides/wind etc, a video demonstration of how to moor, cast off and hold station in a wind or strong tide would be really helpful.  GY, Acle, Reedham and Ranworth staithe are but 4 places that spring to mind where it is easy to get in a right mucking fuddle.

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Surely, the difficulty here is that there is no “one size fits all” solution.  There are people who will understand the concepts of momentum, tides, currents and winds etc., and there are those who will not.  Worse still, there are those who will not listen to reason, because they believe that they know better.  What is needed are high-level descriptions which explain the concepts to those who will instantly “get it”, and more comprehensive instructions and explanations for those who don’t.  Brief instructions would not be enough for the second group, but long detailed descriptions might cause the first group to lose interest and not continue to the end.

Electronic gadgets often come with a “quick start” guide, and a user manual.  Something similar would be needed here too, but as Dave has already said: “where do you stop?”  There are so many things that are obvious to someone that has spent a long time on the broads that come as a surprise to a novice, that choosing what to put in and what to leave out would be quite a task.  Then of course, you (or the boatyard hiring out the boats) are leaving yourself open to the accusation that “no-one told me I couldn’t do that” when damage is done, as a result of something that is not mentioned.

An interactive presentation might be a compromise!  Now that small tablet computers are relatively cheap, and many people have a “smart ‘phone” of some sort (and some boats already have a games console provided), it might be possible to have a PowerPoint style of presentation that allows the user to jump through chapters and look in more detail at some topics.  This could link-in to videos showing “how to …” at the appropriate levels.

I agree with Frank, there is a lot of information “out there” already, and I would like to think that people will take the trouble to find out and learn the best techniques to use.  Unfortunately, we all know that many will not.

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Reedham Ferry problems could be resolved, build a swing bridge instead of using the ferry? The problem being with that at a guess, is, who would pay for it to be built?

 

Then I remembered the Faircraft Boat stuck under Sommerlayton Swing Bridge. I'll get back to reading threads .....

 

cheers Iain.

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The real problem is us! no matter how much information out there, if we have been on courses or like me been boating on the Broads for thirty years, we all have our own way of doings things and if it works for us we do it until something goes wrong, when it comes to tides, winds, currents I'm clueless I just know what works for me, I suppose after thirty years I do some things without even thinking about them, but that dosn't mean I'm doing it the right way it means I'm doing it the way thats always worked for me, if you show me a better way and it works I'll use it, but in the main we are talking about hirers here, 98% do perfectly fine, take a bit of care and don't take chances, it's the odd 2% that are the problem, moor at Ludham for a day, most will panic a bit if they get too close, the odd one will hit you, won't even say sorry, I even heard one person shout back it was the boat he hits fault for mooring there, there's no cure for those type and never will be unless at some point they own their own boat, but having said that some of the worst culprits have been private owners, so no-one is exempt, training yes! teach them how to tie the boat up properly using the right knot, I seem to spend half my life showing people how to tie up, wrapping the rope around the post 200 times just isnt right and they always do it over my ropes when I'm not around and it takes me 20 minutes to sort the ropes out so I can leave the mooring, and please someone put big stickers on hire boats reminding people they steeer from the rear,,,

 

Frank,,,,,

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ive found that a picture works far better when trying to explain things and can cut down

the need for

 

long lengthy and some times hard to understand explanations.

 

one glance .... even if your not really interested in the subject at the time,

will sink in much quicker  e.g.

post-34-0-24394900-1413385628_thumb.jpg

so perhaps we could get a thread together for novices who visit the forum of

say ..... the top 4 points to be aware of on the broads. clear and easily

read with pictures and youtubes etc but short and to the point so its

not laborious or off putting to read.

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What a good Idea Jill! we are all quick to moan about first timers, hirers, and private owners but you don't see much to try and help them, as we have seen for a lot of people forums like this are their first port of call for information and advice, I'm sure between us we can come up with some help for them and maybe even learn a few things ourselves, I'll start and let who ever move to where ever, when ever!

 

Broads Authority Better Boating Guides,,,

 

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLDF989BF329086862

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Sadly, Andy..I fear that, even if you were to resort to deploying an SDS hammer drill to transfer the knowledge, there are those who simply wouldn't listen. We've all seen the type I'm afraid.

 

No matter how 'idiot-proof' you make a system, nature simply designs a better idiot!

 

So, so true! Made me chuckle.

 

Much of what we do is manage and reduce risks. Our "insiders" at the BA tell us that they are most impressed with our hireboat handovers which we are monitored on (like all yards). Our handovers are very comprehensive (arguably too comprehensive as there's too much information to impart) and take at least 45 minutes and often well over an hour.

 

Perhaps we take the discussioin back to CDWs vs Deposits?

 

I have a distinct impression that it would take the whole hire industry up here to start doing this and obliterate CDWs if individual operators were not to suffer. What's Clive's view on this?

 

The issue of a video from the other forum was one that we wanted to run with. We wanted Robin to be the "face" of the video and we all thought the idea had legs, but Robin wasn't so sure he wanted to front it and the idea ebbed away.

 

We would still very much like to do this and have a number of great ideas to make it work well too.

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Not sure that I agree with taking away my choice to buy a CDW. I like to know what my exposure is and can I afford it. A deposit can be just that and if the damage is more then you may be liable.

I take responsibility and care when I am out on a boat and touch wood not damaged one yet, but I still get caught out occasionally. Wind, tide , underwater eddies at Stokesby being one in particular. I came in taking what I could into account and still got turned. Rear of the boat nudged the one behind, was meant to be in front. No damage as the fenders were deployed. The boat occupants were very nice and complimented me on my recovery. Other times I have moored there with a foot or two to spare at both ends.

No CDW won't stop the reckless numpties as usually they are not aware of there own inadequacies. It will keep good customers away in my view.

Education has to be the best way forward.

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OIk, I've just had a few beers and I'm ready to defend my ideas right or wrong!!!

Argument one against my idea seems to be... no-one will watch it so don't try! ..RUBBISH.,some will!

Argument two.. you can't cover everything so don't bother covering anything! RUBBISH.. anything is better than nothing.

We Can't afford it! ..RUBBISH. can we afford not to try?

It won't work!   RUBBISH who's tried?

 

Never have I come up against so much negativity! I struggle to understand why people think that there are folk out there who would hate to watch a film that would have them crying with laughter. You think it wouldn't? Think about how some of the errors could be presented!

If you don't want to try to address the problem then don't complain if your boat is the victim of a novices error.

You say the boatyards don't do enough to help the newbie, well then, neither do you.

 

As say, I've had a beer or three..... what's your excuse?

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Hunters have done one as I mentioned  -  perhaps it would be worse without one but as I said 50% still reef incorrectly despite being shown EXACTLY how to do it - you could argue that without it 75% would do it wrong but I am not sure thats the case.

 

Whilst i agree it cannot do any harm, I remain to be convinced that those who need it most, will actually take any note , but thats just my view!!!

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The first time I hired a boat on the Broads.   (Over 40 years ago I have to confess.)

 

 I made the booking through Hoseasons.  

 

With the invoice etc came a very useful little booklet called  "The Holiday Hints Handbook"

 

I am sure there are others who remember this booklet.

 

This contained a wealth of information covering most of the topics mentioned.  Including how to moor in different situations, what knots to use, How to pass yachts, and much more.

 

In those days it even included indormation on what to do when meeting coastal ships on the Yare which still travelled up to Norwich.

 

Much of this information is still there but is in the Skippers Handbook which the hirer does not see until actually on the boat.

 

Anyway when I had my first hire on the Broads I was already was armed with the knowledge of how to deal with situations thanks to the "holiday Hints Handbook." which had been read cover to cover prior the holiday.

 

Now, in this age of easy video etc there is the chance to actually show things in a far more interesting way.

 

People love to watch videos of the Broads.  Just look at the interest shown In Robin's Captains Blog Series.

 

I like the suggestion that Maurice Mynah has made about doing this with an element of humour.

 

An element of humour, Not TV style, stupidity.

 

Good ideas JOhn.

 

 

 

Arthur

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As I said with builders on building sites, the videos are made humerous, this is because the 'guys' on the site remember them, they will have a laugh, and if they see anyone doing something wrong, will correct them using humour recalled from the video.

when you bear in mind that some construction workers can have volatile tempers, humour is probably the best way of handling this.

Grendel

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Not really sure what this thread is about now but having just tread some of it and seen my name mentioned a couple of times I will contribute!

We introduced the CDW as it is now known  (and short break)  the benefit is that the customer has no need to deny guilt and generally we find out about damage from the customer before the private owner... I think it is a great system and we sort out damage ourselves or if we get a reasonable quote we tell the owner to get on with it and send the invoice.

We pay our bills.

if we have a stupid hirer who wrecks a boat we put them in the minibus and deliver them to their car. !

 

 

 

We don't put up with Bullsh*t. which often gets tried on, ( we are not completely stupid)  our customers although not accident free are not all dishonest.

 

Our boats hit the mud, hit the quays where it is not our hirers fault, we sort it out. 

 

we promote the broads more than anyone,

we sponsor and contribute to local causes more than anyone,

provide more info about the broads than anyone. 

Not just because we are big but percentage wise. 

 

Often imitated, never bettered. 

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(Fingers crossed for you Andy..).

 

I still remember our first time seeing the ferry.. I was 17, had a 5.5 hour coach trip from london.. we had a 30 min induction by an old chap (Although he taught us a lot and I still use what he taught us today) left silverlines yard in brundall about 3pm.. we turned the corner and through the pouring rain  and through the infrequent clearing of the inadequate windscreen wiper; oh cool its a little ferry.. quick grab my camera there's a ferry! get a little closer.. actually are we meant to do something here?! its moving.. no its not! Oh I remember reading about this in the catalogue.. it's a chain ferry!.. what does that mean.. I can't see no chains? I thought the chains are above it like that one up north.. no they are underneath? really the woolwich ferry doesn't do that?! no one mentioned what we do.. quick stop the boat.. (it's not stopping.. how do you stop again?!) grab the manual thing.. somewhere in there it should tell us what to do... where did we put that manual?! ... move the backpack its under the backpack.. can't find it.. oh well too late we are passed the ferry!!..Oh well no harm.. next bit how do we moor...what's for diner.. i'm hungry... 

 

It was a brilliant holiday though but I do remember thinking we should have had a booklet or even a video when we booked as it was a very steep learning curve. Although I do believe these days there is more information available on the internet (I watched the videos on Richardsons website and I think they are helpful).. although I still think perhaps the handbooks should be electronic and available for download??..

 

I agree with other comments that the people who should read/view these wont etc.. I also don't believe the yards shouldn't cotton wool too much because theres limited amount time etc and people do just want to get out and probably won't/can't listen (I remember being lost with the amount of info)... perhaps there should be more insurance charges for new hirers or more instruction but I suspect most hires go without incident.. Hard decisions..

 

Once again.. I feel for Andy.. he has lost income, had a lot of extra work and as usual I suspect lots of expense.. I do hope this is all resolved quickly for him.

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{snip}

 

Much of this information is still there but is in the Skippers Handbook which the hirer does not see until actually on the boat.

 

 

Our handbook has always been attached to the same email that has all the booking documents attached. 

 

You'd be amazed at how few people read it (or the email even).

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Hi Andy,

 

Seems so sad these days that people just cannot be bothered to read such useful information.

 

I know in my early days of hiring back in the busy times of the 1970's you had to book up many months in advance to have any chance of finding a boat. Particularly in high season.

 

We always used to read the handbook as it was part of a way of looking forward to the forthcoming week on the boat.

 

I guess with some people , even the suggested hammer drill aprroach will not work.

 

Thanks for letting us know your comprehensive approach to the handover procedure.  This is good to see as even those of us who have been hiring for years always have something to learn.

 

Sadly I have never yet hired from you,  Maybe one day I will get the opportunity, providing you are Ok about single handed hiring.

 

I cannot really comment much on the incident as I was not there and do not know any of the facts.

 

However, it does surprise me that the incident should occur.

 

As I said I have not hired from yourself but I have hired that particular boat on numerous occassions in her previous guise as Aston Broadsword.  I have also hired the other two Ex Astons in your fleet.  I was always single handed  and all three boats are very easy to manouvere.

 

Maybe I have been lucky but in over 40 years I have never had any problems with the Ferry at Reedham and have always found the operators very helpful if there is any element of doubt as to whether to pass or not.

 

 

Hope she is back on hire again soon Andy.

 

All the best

 

Arthur

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A bit late on the reply, but wind and tide at Reedham can catch a lot of people out (I had a devils own job getting off the moorings there last October in the high winds).

 

Picture of an unfortunate sole from last August who managed to get everything wrong and ended up lodged on the ferry with the rudder caught on the chain with an outgoing tide. The ferry guys managed to get it clear after a lot of effort, but a few other boats did almost the same thing turning up tide, with the wind and too close to the ferry.

 

I am sure we have all made mistakes (I know I have) and until you have had some experience or lessons both hire and private boats will get caught out I guess.

 

As for protocol at Reedham, I always stand off and wait until I know the ferry man has seen me and waved me through before I continue. Not always easy if your going with the tide in a low powered boat, but then I have lots of power, twin engines and a bow thruster to hold me where I want to. Not always been this flash, and have had my share of hire boats that you just have to think a bit more about what your doing and when you do it.

 

Sorry to hear your boat was seriously damaged and hope you get it sorted out.

 

I like the idea of flashing lights even if it's only on the ferry itself before they move off.attachicon.gifIMG_0143.JPG

We were there watching that happen, he tried twice to turn across the outgoing tide to moor up then he got too close to the ferry and couldn't slow down enough.

Jim

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snip

 

Sadly I have never yet hired from you,  Maybe one day I will get the opportunity, providing you are Ok about single handed hiring.

 

snip

 

 

Hope she is back on hire again soon Andy.

 

All the best

 

Arthur

Arthur, 

 

We are happy with single handed hiring, but only on Lady and Sweet. 

 

Andy

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We came past reedham ferry sunday mid-day to see the ferry almost all the way across and still one of the chains behind it was out of the water, not seen it do that before, a hire boat travelling down with the tide did a very good job of holding back but I was convinced he was going to have a problem so much so that I turned to see what happened, he made it over once the ferry was docked but could have been a different story for a boat that didn't appear to be doing anything particularly daft.

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