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SLR help/info


Guest Jonny

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Hi all you photo guru's

Ive been talking to Clive (MusiClive) over skype about up grading from my point & squirt.

The problem i have using my P&S is the battery's dont last long it takes so long for the camera to shoot a pic i just take the one shot whether its good or bad i just use that one shot.

Now i am not like most of you where you can throw shed load of cash at cameras or lenses i dont mind second hand or new if there at sensible prices ;) .

looking on ebay ive found two that i talked to Clive about so Hands off you lot no bidding please :mrgreen::mrgreen:

we talked about it for a while and a starter for me would be the Canon 20D which is a nice model

this one is the body only.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-EOS-20D-Body-only-Digital-SLR-with-Original-Box_W0QQitemZ130298093223QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item130298093223&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

the second one which is my fav & i am trying to get waiting for an email back is this another 20D

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-EOS-20D-Digital-Camera-with-55-200mm-Lens_W0QQitemZ200327257771QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CamerasPhoto_DigitalCameras_DigitalCameras_JN?hash=item200327257771&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

the reason i wanted to try an updated camera well to most of those of you who know what there doing its probably old. but i want to be able to get a choice of pics. I am no good at anything else in life other than things to do with boats & as some people have said unemployable.

I have the patients of a saint unless shopping with my sister :lol::lol:

but i can try and take pride is taking shots learn new things when taking pics learning new skills from people like yourselves.

I have been told i am rubbish at this rubbish at that to big to do this and that but now its time for a change.

any help would be fantastic i know Clive will be along to post on here :lol::lol:

Thanks for your time :wave:wave:wave

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

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This is the right route Jonny in my view.

Better to spend this sort of money on a second hand SLR than a new p&s. It will allow you to 'learn' photography rather than pressing a button, you will I believe derive pleasure from the shots you take.

The 20D is a good camera and was the next model to the 10D I used up until recently.

Reviews here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/revie ... art1.shtml

I think it would be fantastic hobby for you not only on the Broads but back at home.

Always plenty of help here if you need it.

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Hi Perry

I have to say its looks rather a nice model compared so some that look so cluttered with buttons ect.

but i am hoping something will work out.

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

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I'm afraid Jonny I have to differ from Perry on this one. I'd say get yourself a decent compact and forget getting an SLR. From the description of what you are unhappy with at the moment and what you want to achieve I cannot see that an SLR is the right route for you. Sure, it will take better pics if used to its potential, but it's a bit like buying a Range Rover to do the school run. It's a whole world of overkill, and just owning it won't make you a fab photographer overnight. Now if you are intending to grow your photography to a whole new level then yes, you need something to get you on that path an SLR is what you need, but that is not what you appear to be saying in your original post.

If you're really certain you want an SLR, get yourself into Jessops or another camera store, get your mits around one, particularly one as chunky as an EOS 20D and make sure you are happy with the way it feels, the way it works etc. On many occasions I've taken far better pics with my P&S than I have with my SLR.... why? Because the SLR was sitting on a shelf somewhere, being too big or inappropriate for the occasion or simply too much hassle to lug along with me.

If faster performance and better image quality for general purpose photography are what you are looking for a good, state of the art compact will run rings around your old one, cost a fraction of the price of the SLR and be practical in a great many more situations.

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I have read the post incorrectly then!

I took this as Jonny wanting to 'learn' photography as something he could potentially be good at.

If he wants to put the time and effort in then an SLR in my humble view is going to be the best step.

If he wants to take p&s photo's then clearly buy a p&s but I did not read the post that way :?

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Jonny,

As I said earlier today, take your time before parting with any cash.

Do a little bit of research too - it comes for free!!

My mention of the 20D came about purely as that model can be bought for little money but will prove to produce fairly good images.

Check out Richardson's Boating Holidays new 2009 brochure, there are lots of my pics in there,-all taken with the 20D, so it can't be all that bad.

Don't be misled by my rubbish though!

The 30D is the same camera as the 20D but with a larger viewing LCD screen and very little else as far as I'm concerned, not worth the extra cash outlay.

I barely ever look at my LCD screen, apart from checking the histogram on very odd occasions. So it bears no real value to me personally, but that's not to say you should ignore it. The screen can be a benefit when wishing to re-cap what you've just shot.

I just tend to point, shoot, and hope - that's all I ever do! Hence the C*** I turn out!!

There are many models of DSLR around at the moment and generally prices are abnormally high for new versions.

You know how much I spent on a new lens today Jonny, that kind of money will buy you a fair bit of kit in the second hand DSLR market. Just be patient like me and I'm sure you'll find the right camera set-up to suit you.

I've waited months for this new lens, so it had better be good!!! :roll:

Good Luck with your search.

Kind regards,

Clive.

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Hi Jonny

There are two schools of thought here (quite obviously from Simon's and Perry's replies), but it really depends on what you want to achieve.

I have just bought a relatively cheap "bridge" camera for my sons to try to get them interested in photography (which seems to be working). I got them a Fujifilm S1000fd 10 megapixel camera, because it was only just over £100, and allowed a certain degree of manual adjustment when it comes to shutter speed and aperture size. This allows some freedom when it comes to dictating to the camera how you want the shot to come out.

The problem is, that if you want to get really into creative styles of photography, these cameras simply don't offer enough scope for "fiddling". The little Fuji only allows aperture sizes to be adjusted from F2.4 to F6.4, which is not enough to make really marked differences to the depth of field. It's a great introduction for them, but in no way would it satisfy me personally. This weekend saw me spread eagled on my belly on Cromer pier (much to the wifes emabarassment) and again on Cromer prominade just to get a shot I thought would work!

I would agree with Perry that if you intend to go for full on creative photography, a second hand SLR is the way to go. However, if you are most likely to leave an SLR on Full Auto mode anyway, then Simon probably has the right idea. It really is horses for courses, but that's why my phone has an 8.1 megapixel camera built in, so I've always got a point and squirt with me!

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Hi Peeps

thanks for your help so far

what i wanted to do was have a camera with a few mods so i could take loads of pics make loads of changes & find new ways of shooting photo's.

this is why Clive suggested an SRL the 20D

this way i can take more photo's get to learn how to use the setting & the way it takes different photos without spending shed loads of cash.

I also wanted a change from the poor battery life from P&S also when you want to take a photo of something you realy like & its just out of your reach & there is no chance of getting any closer thats also another reason that frustrates me.

but with getting a different model from a p&s the SLR is good cause i can learn new things but with a P&S it limits the capability of learning.

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice sliceice slice

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I think Perry and I are in complete agreement, just took different meanings from the post. Obviously, if you want to go down the road of creative photography then an SLR is the only way to go. But Jonny's main complaint seemed to be poor battery life and slow performance from the camera. A new (and decent) P&S will run rings around your old one, it'll take multiple versions of each shot and give you that choice you're looking for. It will also allow for some creativity, for example all decent P&S do pretty good macro photography whereas an SLR will require a specialist lens to do that job well.

All I am saying Jonny is think VERY carefully about what you want here. If it's just to take higher quality pics, with decent battery life and a fast response from the camera, don't go spending your money on an SLR because it's an entirely different beast built for an entirely different kind of use. Just get an up to date compact (preferably Canon or Panasonic, or maybe Sony at a push).

As I said before, if you really do know that what you are looking for requires an SLR then go out, handle them in a shop (you don't have to buy), see how you get on. The whole reason P&S cameras even exist is because there are a great number of situations in which an SLR simply is not practical and its special capabilities not needed. They will have good battery life and faster response, they'll also take better quality pics (though you'll need to be doing large prints to really see the difference) than a P&S but they'll be 3 times the weight and 5 times the size. And getting into an SLR system, even buying second hand, will cost far more than getting a P&S and even then you'll still need to learn what to do with it. If you take the same pics in the same way with your SLR as you would with your compact then, frankly, the same pics is what you'll get.... you'll just be using a far larger and heavier piece of kit to get them. Plus some of those lenses you'll need to get "close" to wildlife (like Paul) will cost more than your entire year's moorings! Getting the camera body is just the first step, it also needs lenses.

I don't want to be a gloomy naysayer, I just want you to be ABSOLUTELY SURE that you really, really need an SLR before you part company with what will be a significant sum of money to you. I'd hate for you to spend that money and end up unhappy with the results, so I say again, get into a shop, see what the options are, have a play and then go and do some thinking. Second hand cameras are always on Ebay in their hundreds, don't worry if those 20D's have gone before you've made a decision. ;)

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Jonny you know my feelings and I think Simon has got it spot on and I also think that a good p&s is the way to go. Your battery issues probably stem from an old worn out battery that needs replaceing anyway, rechargables all wear out eventually.

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After going back and looking at the pics people have taken with flash cameras or just P&S i wished i could take something as good as that so i am going to take step by step.

just to keep you posted I am looking into doing a photography course with the open university which start in May also i might be able to get a little funding so looks good.

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

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Guest chriscraft
:clap good for you go for it !!better still come on the next ramble if you can,there,s nothing like talking and seeing different methods used and the results on here.enjoy
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I've just caught up with this thread after a couple of days buried in work :evil:

You've had some great advice here Jonny. Take your time before parting with cash. The biggest advantage of an SLR is being able to change lenses, and that means having to buy more than one lens! Many compact cameras give fantastic results, but there are a lot of technical considerations such as lens quality, sensor size, noise, maximum aperture, and what you intend to use the pics for - including how big you want to print them. A 20D would be great, and Clive's advice is spot on - but so would a lot of newer compacts. The important thing is to find out more about photography and decide how you want to use a camera. In the end it's the person behind the lens that makes a good photograph. Good luck, and let us know how we can help! :P

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Hi everyone

When i first started looking at pics what people had took i though i wounder if i could do something like that & would i be able so i tried with my P&S but dint happen.

So i got into watching programs bout photography online & on tv then i got into looking at what they were using.

so with some advice from friends here about what cameras would do what & being able to adjust the settings instead of just having it on Auto all the time.

With me looking at doing a course in digital photography i got thinking you start at level one then work your way up now my theory is for each level you would require a new camera for each level of the course as you will be upgrading the pics.

So thats why i asked what type of camera members used as members have more experience with a camera & have used so know which would be best for the jobs.

I am going to be looking at an SLR whether it be a 20D 30D or 50D I would be looking for one that i would use everyday. Some members say the trouble is with SLR's is that there to big to heavy thats why 50% of the time there stuck in the car or at home. Thats because you have a bridge which is your P&S i would have one main camera which i would use whether it was heavy or not.

It will be good to be able to take a few of the same photo in a second than just sticking with one with my P&S which it will allow me to change setting to see what i can do with the camera.

now from what members have said there is nothing like an SLR so i think my limit would be a second hand SRL 20D or 40D or a refurb which doesn't bother me in the slightest.

but i was watching QVC a couple days ago & came across this ive show Clive the pics of this model & says his son has the next model down & says the shots are fantastic so let me know what you think.

here is a little info about the camera

http://www.qvcuk.com/ukqic/qvcapp.aspx/app.detail/walk.yah.UKEL~UK20

here is a link about the product in a video

http://www.qvcuk.com/ukdetail/ViewOptions.aspx?viewOption=watchvideo&item=560025&country=UK

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

P.S I will be going into Manchester to have a look at some SLR's in person to get a feel

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Jonny

This is the one I bought for my boys from Argos. Similar in spec to the one you have seen on QVC, but 1/3 the price. It is very small in size, so if you have massive meat-hooks, then it may be a little fiddly for you, but worth a look I reckon.

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500001501&langId=-1&searchTerms=s1000fd

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When i first started looking at pics what people had took i though i wounder if i could do something like that & would i be able so i tried with my P&S but dint happen.

The thing is Jonny, the most important component when trying to take a good picture is the person behind the camera. It is certainly true that an awful camera will hold you back but I doubt you could buy such a thing anymore, even if you wanted one! You have to look very carefully at people's images, see what you like about them and try to bear it in mind when shooting yourself. And above all you need to look carefully when framing the shot in the first place. A good camera does not make a good photographer, though I have used some which were so bad they can certainly hamper even the best.

However, if you're serious enough to be reading photography books and trying to get onto OU courses etc then you will certainly need an SLR. A compact will take very good pictures when used to the best of its ability but creatively it's pretty limited - they're mostly designed to be a trade off between image quality, usability and convenience. Even really good compacts can be quite chunky (e.g. Canon G10).

So i got into watching programs bout photography online & on tv then i got into looking at what they were using.

so with some advice from friends here about what cameras would do what & being able to adjust the settings instead of just having it on Auto all the time.

With me looking at doing a course in digital photography i got thinking you start at level one then work your way up now my theory is for each level you would require a new camera for each level of the course as you will be upgrading the pics.

So thats why i asked what type of camera members used as members have more experience with a camera & have used so know which would be best for the jobs.

Not true. Any SLR will allow you to grow as much as you want. The further up the hierarchy you go the larger and heavier the bodies, you may get a few new features (some which even the pros will never use), you might even get minor improvements to things like autofocus, frame rate etc, but the main thing you'll be paying for is durability. Pros want cameras which will run until doomsday not break down half way through a paid job. In terms of general capability the entry level bodies will do 90% or more of what the pro bodies will do, but will do so for a fraction of the price.

Until this week Mark was using a camera body which has been obsolete for about 3 years but is arguably the best non-pro on here. My SLR is probably the cheapest on the market right now but its performance is superb. Even though Paul now has a Canon EOS 5D he was still doing pro work with an "entry level" body before that (a 350?).

When I bought my SLR it was a toss up between two models, a entry level one and a pro/am mid level body. The price difference was significant but the ultimate deciding factor for me was that the mid level body was decidedly larger and heavier and, having suffered major neck problems having my SLR hanging round my neck before I opted for the smaller, lighter body. In doing so I had to settle for only 3fps instead of 5fps, only 9 AF points instead of 11, only 10MP instead of 12MP, a minimum shutter speed of only 1/4000th instead of 1/8000th (hint, I've never ever used faster than 1/2500 in my life) but it cost £500 less and weighed only 2/3 as much.

The most important factor is a) the photographer (80%) and B) the lens (15%) and to get really good lenses you have to pay really good money (and 5% everything else).

My only comment on size would be that you are a bit bigger than me and might find the smaller camera bodies slightly fiddly. All the more reason to get yourself down to a shop and handle some of the options so you can get a feel for how you like them. Don't buy a 20D or a 50D just because someone else might have one and get good results with it, there's soooo much more to it than that. A 2nd hand EOS 400D would be a good place to start (other makes and models are available :lol: )

P.S I will be going into Manchester to have a look at some SLR's in person to get a feel

Good man. cheersbar

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Hi & thanks Simon

the general view i am getting is start with a realy decent P&S then work your way up.

I will be still looking at the SLR's when in Manchester but to get a good idea on how much of a beast they are.

so i will start looking for a more decent P&S with more functions on :wave:wave:wave

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

P.S thank you all for your advice it does help :teddy:

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Hi every one

Ive just posted off my forms for funding & found out that the Fuji finepix S2000 HD what i was going to get have all been sold & they wont be getting any more back in stock. now my course starts on the 1st of May & i want to get a little prictice in before it starts.

now i opted for the S2000 at has a wider spec to the model Col was suggesting now i am still looking for a Bridge camera as peeps have suggested as an SLR is just a little out of reach.

do any of you use a bridge camera like the S2000hd & what would your recommendation be max £200? i can go a couple hundred more but wanted to keep a little back in case i needed to get some more stuff. plus i got a couple extra bits of kit that comit or Argos were selling with theres

thanks

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice sliceice slice

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Hi everyone :wave:wave:wave

so for boring most of you but to day once my sis gets back from the gym i am going to get my new camera :teddy::teddy:

I was going to get either one of the two click link below

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5561867/c_1/1|category_root|Photography|12109590/c_2/2|cat_12109590|Digital+cameras|12109607.htm

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5591112/c_1/1|category_root|Photography|12109590/c_2/2|cat_12109590|Digital+cameras|12109607.htm

but after aa lot of thinking i am going to this one some might have some views of the camera or the maker I will be going for the P80 no matter what people views are but would be nice to hear them see video below

thanks to all those who have been helping me out giving me guidance in my new quest very much appreciated :bow:bow

Jonny ice sliceice sliceice slice

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Hi All,

I enter this debate with some trepidation as there are obviously many experts. Having used many types of camera in the past, I've finally settled on the full control compact, to wit, the Canon G9 (now superceded by G10 but basically the same). This reminds me of my old manual rangefinders and can be used anywhere between that mode and full P&S. The lens is superb, will take JPEG or RAW, it takes c.250 pics per battery charge, it's possible (just) to stuff it in a large pocket and encourages you to carry it. I got fed up of lugging heavy camera bags full of kit about.

As a vehicle for learning about photography it fits the bill, and will last you right through until you become a sophisticated "pap"........I haven't had time to check, but I would guess there are 2nd hand G9s about at reasonable prices.

Seaboater.........but not for much longer

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We will have no trepidation here if you please ;) all are welcome; the day you stop learning and all that.

The G9 is a very capable piece of kit I seriously thought about upgrading my p&s to one but upgraed my SLR instead :grin:

Many 'experts' would take the images produced by the G9 over the G10 despite its higher pixel count.

Don't be shy post away

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Hi Seaboater

When you are typing your reply, look below the big text area and you will see two tabs, "Options" and "Upload Attachments". Click on the upload attachments one, press the browse button to find your file, and then hit add the file.

If you want to put pictures in a certain place in your post, you can then position your cursor where you want the picture to go and hit the "place inline" button that will appear once pictures have been uploaded.

The only limitations are that no picture can be more than 1600x1600 pixels, must be in jpg format, and a maximum of 5 per post.

Hope that helps, but shout again if not :wave

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