Breydon

[ExSurveyor]

Lets not spoil the area with barriers and more posts,  now if the area were to have random mines laid it would be a deterrent but be nice and tidy.  

[Oddfellow]

Why the hell are we arguing over HSE points and such like when there are clear reasons for anyone, let alone a novice helmsman and crew to transverse Breydon at low, slack water? 

Perhaps HSE was the wrong agency to mention, but the point is that guidance exists. It exists in literature from the BA both in leaflets and the Broadcaster. If there is a big incident on Breydon, the HSE etc would make it their business. 

As hire operators, we have an absolute duty of care towards our crews and also to others. That means giving them strict instructions. We can't hold their hands and spoon-feed everything to them. Many refuse to wear their lifejackets, but we still make them put them on in front of us to ensure that they know how and how well they fit; we can't make them wear them. 

At it's core, there is no cure for stupid and we try to make things as idiot-proof as possible; but just as soon as you think you have done this, along comes a special type of idiot. 

This applies in all walks of life whether driving, walking, lighting the BBQ with petrol or any other remarkable thing you can imagine - check out the Darwin Awards for a giggle. It's not just people on Breydon. And, it's not just inattention or lack or care that lands people in trouble. We very nearly came to grief three years ago towing across breydon when a line snapped. Bloody scary, I can assure you, having two boats begin to scissor apart and rip cleats out.

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by FreedomBoatingHols

[JennyMorgan]

Robin, there is a recognised system for buoyage, recognised across Europe. Perhaps it is best leave well alone rather than confuse those who have made the effort to recognise them and what they mean.

[JennyMorgan]

Buoyage:

http://www.skysailtraining.co.uk/buoyage_iala_system.htm

It really isn't difficult.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

 

I do wonder at some peoples obvious lack of understanding of the english language. How hard can it be to to understand when people, and navigation maps and charts etc say "keep between the posts"?.  I know we`ve sometimes crossed Breydon against the tide, but i do like to go with the tide whenever possible. However, sometimes it`s just not convenient to do so, so we have to go against the tide. As for working an engine hard against the tide, most inboard engines on hire boats, or even private boats for that matter, are governed to a lot less revs than max rpm, so going across Breydon at say 1,800 revs is hardly straining an engine.

I run a Peugeot 407 138 deisel, which will rev to over 4,000 rpm. I constantly sit on the motorway at 2,000 rpm which is dead on 70mph. Most modern deisel boat engines will rev to somewhere near that rev range if the pumps etc are tuned for it, so running a deisel at 1,800 revs is often just cruising revs anyway.

 

I think a lot of people worry unnessecarily about crossing Breydon against the tide because they read and hear endless adverse sometimes misleading comments about doing so. The truth is, it`s perfectly safe, providing, like in any other scenario, your equipment is properly maintained and serviced correctly.

 

 

[Maxwellian]

Some yards take it seriously. We hired from Freedom and had our own life jackets. They insisted on checking the auto inflation mechanism was in date. Good stuff, we were not offended at all.

[Wussername]

As a matter of interest when was the last fatality on Breydon or serious injury, discounting a period of discomfort or indeed inconvenience.

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by Wussername

[Oddfellow]

Unaware of serious injury or fatality, but the emergency services seem to be increasingly willing to take people off the boats that become stricken. 

This all has a massive cost to it and not all monetary. What if the lifeboat is busy dealing with a bunch of fools and can't get to a real emergency? 

[JennyMorgan]

Andy, whilst I appreciate your concerns it must be remembered that the RNLI also has its big lifeboat at Gorleston and that Caister & Lowestoft have their high speed boats. Of course there is also the SOB, good to twelve mile offshore

[quo vadis]

What needs to be photographed 12 miles offshore?

[JawsOrca]

 Of course there is also the SOB, good to twelve mile offshore

How low is the bridges clearance through yarmouth at high water?  

[JennyMorgan]

How low is the bridges clearance through yarmouth at high water?  

There's a thought!

[Baitrunner]

Wouldn't be a problem on the way back though!!!

Maybe they could get an emergency bridge lift? Some time tomorrow....

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Unaware of serious injury or fatality, but the emergency services seem to be increasingly willing to take people off the boats that become stricken. 

This all has a massive cost to it and not all monetary. What if the lifeboat is busy dealing with a bunch of fools and can't get to a real emergency? 

That`s all very well Andy, but those stuck on the mud (with great exception given to those that have had a problem) have obviously got there "AT" high water, but definitely not "BECAUSE" it`s high water. The vast majority are stuck there because they obviously can`t understand "keep between the posts". The tide direction is completely irrelevent.

 

 

[Viking23]

If you cross at low slack water on a rising tide, then if you ground, you will quickly float off again, if you ground on a falling tide, you will have to  wait for the tide to become low, and start to rise again, so depending at what time you went aground, you could be high and dry for up to 12 1/2 hours, but by that time, it might be dark, so unsuitable to cruise.

[Viking23]

duplicate post 

Edited October 1, 2015 by Viking23

[Viking23]

Do you understand how tides work?

 

Dave?????

Of course I do, clearly you don't.

So which bit do you want a better explaination on?..

May be the 12 1/2 hours bit... well if you went aground at or near high tide on a falling tide, by the time the tide drops and comes back in, it could be 12 1/2 hours, longer if it was a spring tide when you went aground.

Quite simple really.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Viking23

[Oddfellow]

Sorry - wrong quote and I can't get rid of this damn box

 

Speedtripple said: 

That`s all very well Andy, but those stuck on the mud (with great exception given to those that have had a problem) have obviously got there "AT" high water, but definitely not "BECAUSE" it`s high water. The vast majority are stuck there because they obviously can`t understand "keep between the posts". The tide direction is completely irrelevent.

 

That's not really true though (and I wasn't commenting on tide direction anyway). 

You can get stuck at any state of the tide, it's just easier if you can't see the mud banks under the surface of the water and so remain unaware of them.

The direction of tide has a lot to do with it too as punching a tide may result in engine failure in the hands of a novice or a "couldn't care less" which is likely to render the boat stuck anyway. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by FreedomBoatingHols
Bloody quote system!

[JennyMorgan]

Dave, in fairness to Viking he wrote 'up to 12 1'2 hours', which, if you go onto the mud at the top of the tide, is near enough right, isn't it?

Edited October 2, 2015 by JennyMorgan

[Viking23]

Dave, in fairness to Viking he wrote 'up to 12 1'2 hours', which, if you go onto the mud at the top of the tide, is near enough right, isn't it?

Thanks JM, I actually added to my original post, with an explaination of the 12 1/2 hours bit to make that part clearer, during that edit, our posts clearly crossed. lol

[Guest]

Clearly not because 12 and a half hours later the tide would be exactly the same as it was, and you question why people get it wrong.

Which is exactly the point that Viking23 was trying to make, and is quite correct.

If you go aground at exactly high water or just after, you're stuck on a falling tide, so it takes almost 12½ to reach that same height again for you to get sufficient water to float off.

Another reason why experienced navigators prefer to use a rising tide when in shoal water, rather than high water.

[Guest]

Try to focus on the word "almost".

If you happen to run hard aground at the exact hour and minute of high water, then you're into the springs and neaps cycle as well, hence Viking23's valid reference to those as well.

[Labrador]

I think this thread hits the nail on the head. No wonder novices run aground when even the 'wise' boaters can't agree.

[JawsOrca]

(I got "neaped" one day on our scrubbing dock.. Although I kinda did it on purpose because I couldn't be bothered to take it back to its deep water mooring...had to sit there for two weeks! Same thing can and does happen on the broads (Note somerleyton hireboat).  So it's far better to go over Breydon at low water (at least you can only go up!)...

[JennyMorgan]

In going from Oulton Broad to Gt Yarmouth with the intention of arriving at low water I would then, inevitably, cross Breydon on a falling tide. However if I ground an hour before low water I will then only have to wait an hour and a little bit before I will float off again, simples!