Tolls

[ranworthbreeze]

Just how big is a round of drinks 3 people or 20  ?  

Hi Andy,

In Norfolk say 4 to 5 people at most, usually a pint of larger and a large glass of red wine in most places is about £9.00 plus.

Regards

Alan

[quo vadis]

Alan where do you drink? Telcos 

[dnks34]

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/426596/Financial-Performance-and-Direction-ba170114-Appendix-2.pdf

hopefully the link works

Chief Exec salary at a little over 100k per annum and we are expected to be a supportive of another Tolls Increase, these are the figure for 2013/2014 so it will be interesting to see if he had a payrise.  Nobody needs 100k per annum in order to live a reasonably comfortable life.  Interestingly operations salaries at over a million and over 500k on rangers.  How many staff do the BA have?

[MauriceMynah]

There are somany 'red herrings' in this thjread, I'm thinking about starting to go fishing again.

It is unwise to compare BA tolls with the tolls on the canals etc as you cannot be sure you are comparing like with like. The same applies to road tax.

It is also unwise to liken this situation to car ownership, caravan ownership or even garden shed ownership as each similie has stomping great differences that detract from the points being made.

We all know that the primary requirement is a breakdown of the BAs income and its expenditure. This will probably be published soon after that metaphorical pig gets airborn.

Without wishing to bang Petrers drum for him, I have to speculate that this increase will just about cover any past re-branding exercises, whilst any future "back-branding" will have to come from a future increase!

[JennyMorgan]

Eddie says:

http://www.broadsnationalpike.com/2015/10/presidential-task-force-to-tackle-tolls.html

[Matt]

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/426596/Financial-Performance-and-Direction-ba170114-Appendix-2.pdf

hopefully the link works

Chief Exec salary at a little over 100k per annum and we are expected to be a supportive of another Tolls Increase, these are the figure for 2013/2014 so it will be interesting to see if he had a payrise.  Nobody needs 100k per annum in order to live a reasonably comfortable life.  Interestingly operations salaries at over a million and over 500k on rangers.  How many staff do the BA have?

You need to look at the annual accounts for salary costs and chief exec is £82k. Next highest salary is £58k of which there are two.

[JennyMorgan]

If I understand things correctly the proposal is to increase the tolls across the board, both hire and private craft. However, the multiplier for the hire boat tolls is to be reduced. Does this mean that the hire boat toll is going to go up just a little, or actually, in real terms, drop, as I have heard it suggested? Either way, it seems to me that the private craft are going to have to make up the shortfall created by the drop in the multiplier. How many members of the Nav Com have vested interests? I don't like what I'm thinking but my hackles are rising, I do feel let down by that committee's support for the proposed raid on my wallet. I'm on a fixed pension, constant above inflation increases don't appeal to me, especially those that appear to be skewered unfairly. Unlike a boatyard I can't offset my tolls against tax! 

[C.Ricko]

how does a boatyard offset its tolls against tax?

I suspect the 0.05 reduction in multiplier will make less odds than the 15 boats I am removing..

[ChrisB]

I think what is meant are tolls are not an allowable expense for an individual. Whereas they are for a hire yard resulting in a reduced tax liability due to a reduced bottom line should the yard not pass on the increase to it's customers.

Edited October 26, 2015 by ChrisB

[JennyMorgan]

how does a boatyard offset its tolls against tax?

 

As an expense? 

[C.Ricko]

great theory, if all expenses matched income then all is well. 

I think there needs to be more of this thinking!. 

[Warp]

great theory, if all expenses matched income then all is well. 

I think there needs to be more of this thinking!. 

Suggestion (I'm sure it's probably been suggested before):

BA Toll on hire boats is applied as a percentage surcharge on the cost of the hire.

There would be a cash flow issue for the BA initially I guess but perhaps terms to the effect of "to be paid at the time of the booking / at the same time as the deposit" could offset that as so many book well in advance. Or roll it out only to the smaller boatyards first.

This would at least take some static overhead off struggling businesses and tie the BA's interests somewhat more with the hire yards and the rest of the local tourism industry. The tolls could be reduced on the BA favoured boats like electric/sail/low wash etc.

[ChrisB]

There are those that would say that BA spend too much time in bed with the hire companies already and that tourism is not in their  remit.

Looking after the Broads and conserving them for the enjoyment of this and future generations should be their priority.

However who is to say where their income flow may stem from in future? We live in interesting times financially.

[senator]

Be really interesting to see what the outflow of sea going boats is this year. unfortunately they are I think classed purely as private despite being the highest contributors and using the least of the services provided.

I have certainly never encountered a year where so many are intending to leave the Broads. maybe it is coincidence and the trend through the people I know / know of is not reflected in general, if it is there is going to be a big hole in the accounts unless they can find lots of 40'+ x 14'+ boats to replace them. If they manage it with "suitable" boats then god help the mooring situation on the rivers.

[dnks34]

How are the private sea going vessels the biggest contributors when the hire firms are paying the levels of toll they are.  I doubt many of these vessels exceed the hire toll, or do they? 

[ChrisB]

1 hour ago, senator said:

Be really interesting to see what the outflow of sea going boats is this year. unfortunately they are I think classed purely as private despite being the highest contributors and using the least of the services provided.

I have certainly never encountered a year where so many are intending to leave the Broads. maybe it is coincidence and the trend through the people I know / know of is not reflected in general, if it is there is going to be a big hole in the accounts unless they can find lots of 40'+ x 14'+ boats to replace them. If they manage it with "suitable" boats then god help the mooring situation on the rivers.

The sea going boats easily get their money back because the Broads Marinas are much cheaper than those with direct access to the sea.

[ChrisB]

Shotley £340 Brundall Bay £240 per metre. Also you do actually have to go to sea from such marinas, something not all owners appear to do.

If you move the boat to the Solent then those figures could double, that is if you can find a berth available.

[Baitrunner]

RNSYC - £150/m - you may have to join the club at £320 a yr. OK they only have moorings for up to 12m boats at present, but that's nearly 40ft so does me.

Broads tolls on a boat that length best part of £500.

Couple of weeks on the Broads on a visitor toll (assuming sea going boats want to go to sea) - £60 a go.

It can work out cheaper if you want it to.

So 12m boat comparison - On Broads - 2880+500 = 3380

                                          At RNSYC - 1800+320+120 (2 weeks on broads) = 2240 + lock fees

[ChrisB]

I think they have only very limited berths for new members who firstly have to have a proposer and seconder failing that membership is via interview. Across at Lowestoft haven it's £250

 

 

 

 

 

[Baitrunner]

I am not thinking of joining Chris but just used this as an illustration. 

I was actually asked if I wanted to join and even though I didn't have a proposer or know anyone there they said it wouldn't be a problem. 

Sounds like they let anyone in!!

[senator]

3 hours ago, dnks34 said:

How are the private sea going vessels the biggest contributors when the hire firms are paying the levels of toll they are.  I doubt many of these vessels exceed the hire toll, or do they? 

£500 - £600 a year but how many are there compared to hire boats, how often are they on the river? Think you will find there is more money collected from the sea goers than the hire boats.

 

 

[senator]

3 hours ago, ChrisB said:

Shotley £340 Brundall Bay £240 per metre. Also you do actually have to go to sea from such marinas, something not all owners appear to do.

If you move the boat to the Solent then those figures could double, that is if you can find a berth available.

Haven Lowestoft is £234 per meter plus you don't have to have a toll so considerably cheaper than Brundall bay once you put £500 on for a river toll.

The attitude of a certain dictator from the BA is ensuring that lots are leaving, big mistake to keep hitting the bigger boats, reality is they can leave easier than the rest and by the look of it they are.

At the weekend I spoke to another two long standing Broads moorers with boats over 40' that are leaving this year as they are fed up with the way they are treated by the BA. It seems everyone I talk to at the moment is off by the end of the Toll year.

[marshman]

I suspect that at the end of the day the numbers moving will be quite modest - lot of difference between talking about it and actually going.

Whilst I would not wish to be seen as a Devils Advocate, there would be some who may suggest the Southern Rivers would be better off if some do move - its not just a money issue in some eyes. There was if you recall a quite strong support for higher tolls on large seagoing cruisers only fairly recently. 

There are quite a few issues in this complex discussion  - don't expect me to take sides!!!!

[JennyMorgan]

Great place is Lowestoft Haven! Down for the weekend with family, where should we go, Southwold or Gt Yarmouth?

Next weekend, where should we go this weekend, Gt Yarmouth or Southwold?

Following weekend, where should we go, sea's a bit rough, wife doesn't want to mop up all the vomit, best stay put.

Oh, whoopee, 'tis nice & calm this weekend, Gt Yarmouth or Southwold? Oh bugger, the moorings have all been booked, grrrrrr. 

Following weekend the crew all mutiny!!

 

[dnks34]

Exactly what I was thinking JM

I can only surmise most seagoing owners on the broads are here to avoid waves.........which must defeat the object just a little