Tolls

[ChrisB]

Would they go to sea without testing their badly glazed bores on Breydon first? Surely not! 

[dnks34]

Might not be a popular view point but i firmly believe the BA have been missing a trick for many many years.  

There could easily be a different toll rate for single screw and twin screw craft

[senator]

4 hours ago, dnks34 said:

Might not be a popular view point but i firmly believe the BA have been missing a trick for many many years.  

There could easily be a different toll rate for single screw and twin screw craft

Why would they want to?

The People I am talking to have booked berths in other marinas, no idle chat.

Haven I would agree, as per RNSYC, no where to go but still cheaper than the Broads. really only ideal for Sailing as they never get anywhere anyway.

If, and it is a big if but if the numbers are representative of those leaving then I can see the BA being stupid enough to try and bring in a twin screw tax the year after to try and make up the cash. now that exodus I can't wait to see.

A good number are actually going to be paying more and at least two have free moorings on the broads but still prefer to pay a substantial sum in moorings elsewhere to avoid putting money into the pocket of a certain BA dictator.

As Marshman was saying there are a lot who think it will be a good thing when the southern sea goers leave, it is going to be interesting to see if they are happy paying considerably more because of it.

 

[senator]

Another weekend another three leaving, BA short funded next year, "suitable" boats will pay the year after.

[dnks34]

Senator these people pay there dues and can do what they like with their boats suited or unsuited!     A handful of boats leaving in real terms are probably of little consequence, how many new boats might be arriving to replace them?

It all sounds a bit like sour grapes to me, especially a boat having a free mooring and still leaving to avoid paying a toll increase....cutting off nose to spite face springs to mind.

I do believe if enough boats moved on to pastures new it might create a bit more space and put less demand on private marinas hence lowering mooring fees (we wish) but as I said in the grand scheme of things a handful of boats moving on isnt going to change much in my opinion anyway.

For the record I dont care what boat you have the broads are for all to enjoy, will I miss the people who are spitting their dummies out, no probably not ! 

 

[senator]

On 10/29/2015, 8:12:11, dnks34 said:

Might not be a popular view point but i firmly believe the BA have been missing a trick for many many years.  

There could easily be a different toll rate for single screw and twin screw craft

"For the record I don't care what boat you have the Broads are for all to enjoy"

So what is the reasoning?

[dnks34]

In terms of value to toll, i think there are people at the top end getting an incredibly good deal.  

Thats just my view, it doesnt mean its right! 

[JennyMorgan]

I don't doubt that sooner or later the owners of sea-going motor cruisers will find that suitable casual moorings are few and far between. A short stay visit to Beccles, for example, can be a problem due to the limited moorings for BIG boats. The same applies to many moorings throughout Broadland so whilst I really do think that many big boats do get a great deal there is no doubt that, apart from marina moorings, the infra-structure is simply not there for such boats. This means that once the Brundall Trundle wears thin the owners of these boats will be tempted to go elsewhere. Okay, so let's blame the tolls, but there is surely more to it than that. If asked I would agree that the owners of large, sea-going cruisers are poorly catered for, but that is not the fault of the Authority, presumably the wider, Broads business community has failed to see any potential. 

At one time Oulton Broad had fifteen hire yards, now it has none. I well remember my father, he had a large restaurant in Oulton Broad, expressing the opinion that the sea-going boats would drive hire boats off the Southern Broads. The harsh reality is that there are now few hire yards down South and those that are here are struggling. If all the owners of large boat that are threatening to leave the Broads do actually move on then will the hire boats return? Might take a year or two but who knows, the loss of the BIG boats might see an increase of hire and smaller boats down South. 

[dnks34]

The thing about it that I fail to understand is why people would want boats with seagoing capabilities for broads use when i would guess at 90% of them neither having the skills or intentions to ever take the boat out to sea anyway. 

I can totally understand the appeal of the internal fitout and luxury many of these boats will undoubtedly offer but offset that luxury against the increase in fuel and maintenance costs I would still prefer a single screw 50hp for broads use any day.  

As JM has indicated these boats just dont suit there surroundings and may have been causing the broads industry more harm than good? Certainly a different way of looking at things and not a viewpoint that should be dismissed. 

As I said I dont care what boat you have its not my money being spent but why buy such a vessel then feel agrieved at the costs involved and lack of infrastructure! 

Single and twin screw is a clear difference as is sail and power.  We only have to look at the cost of an annual toll for an outboard dinghy to see that the toll tariff is in need of tweaking. 

Im not suggesting that all seagoing vessels should be sent out to sea but at the same time I dont think its fair that a single engined and twin engined vessel pay the same toll tariff, there could well be more toll money in the pot if the BA started looking at it a little bit differently.  

Toll to value is probably an unfair way of looking at it but I dont see how paying more by number of engines could really be argued with.   Its similar to owning a 4x4, many people dont need them and will pay more into the system for having them.  

If people dont want to pay then they will move them away but I imagine that most will just get on and live with the cost and the broads could well turn out better because if it! 

 

[Bound2Please]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

At one time Oulton Broad had fifteen hire yards, now it has none. I well remember my father, he had a large restaurant in Oulton Broad, expressing the opinion that the sea-going boats would drive hire boats off the Southern Broads. The harsh reality is that there are now few hire yards down South and those that are here are struggling. If all the owners of large boat that are threatening to leave the Broads do actually move on then will the hire boats return? Might take a year or two but who knows, the loss of the BIG boats might see an increase of hire and smaller boats down South. 

In the 70's and early 80's we used to hire from Oulton Broad the hire yard was in Comadore road, cant remember its name but the boat was the Anglian Sonet. We also used to hire from Sandersons at Reedham both woodies and the beever fleet from St Olaives glass fibre, Only Sandersons is still there and hiring these days

[Seriously]

I hate paying taxes also  . Sorry perks of living In this country we have to.

When I consider buying a boat this was one of the thing that I took into consideration bigger the boat more tax more in up keep and so on . Likewise I really would like a 110 older Land Rover ,tax and diseal has put a stop to it just two many pennies . So if you can afford to buy 100k boat surely you look into the running costs . Tolls going up this year can only be a small contributerr of why they are moving on.  one less bottle of chardonay  and the extra tolls are covered. 

All i I would like to see is if the BA makes a  bad decisions as most  company's  bussiness don't  hold there hands ups . How refreshing to hear . We made a mistake the persons , involved have been reprimanded . It will not happen again.

In today's society no body wants to . Due to be being sued.

being a noob to this side of the broads ,  may BA balready do and there spending and budgets are transparent . And when they don't meet what they say they going to do they hold up there hands 

[johnb]

1. There is no point in looking for logic in boat ownership.....it's not part of the package, Why do some people have unsuitable boats on the Broads, why do some people have suitable boats on the Broads, yet never move or use them? Maybe many of us share a strange DNA???

[dnks34]

In an ideal world i would define a suitable boat as one that has an engine that runs on oxygen and is invisible so cant attract a toll, being invisible it would fit under all the bridges, fit in anywhere and take up no space, oh and the manufacturer would give it to me for free.....I think i have been watching to much late night sci fi ! 

[johnb]

I had one of those, jumped in and got really wet!!

 

[imtamping2]

Quick question for Johnb amongst all this debate.......

What boat do you have ....is it a sloop....

[johnb]

Imtamping2, I just told you that there is no logic in boat ownership, now you are trying to apply some!!!!!!!!!!!! Wouldn't know what to do with sheets and towels and ropes and halyards and masts, so proving my theory wrong, we have an Elysian 27. 

[imtamping2]

Ha Ha , yes I know what you mean ....just couldn't resist....... 

[senator]

On 10/29/2015, 8:12:11, dnks34 said:

 

 

5 hours ago, dnks34 said:

The thing about it that I fail to understand is why people would want boats with seagoing capabilities for broads use when i would guess at 90% of them neither having the skills or intentions to ever take the boat out to sea anyway. 

I can totally understand the appeal of the internal fitout and luxury many of these boats will undoubtedly offer but offset that luxury against the increase in fuel and maintenance costs I would still prefer a single screw 50hp for broads use any day.  

As JM has indicated these boats just dont suit there surroundings and may have been causing the broads industry more harm than good? Certainly a different way of looking at things and not a viewpoint that should be dismissed. 

As I said I dont care what boat you have its not my money being spent but why buy such a vessel then feel agrieved at the costs involved and lack of infrastructure! 

Single and twin screw is a clear difference as is sail and power.  We only have to look at the cost of an annual toll for an outboard dinghy to see that the toll tariff is in need of tweaking. 

Im not suggesting that all seagoing vessels should be sent out to sea but at the same time I dont think its fair that a single engined and twin engined vessel pay the same toll tariff, there could well be more toll money in the pot if the BA started looking at it a little bit differently.  

Toll to value is probably an unfair way of looking at it but I dont see how paying more by number of engines could really be argued with.   Its similar to owning a 4x4, many people dont need them and will pay more into the system for having them.  

If people dont want to pay then they will move them away but I imagine that most will just get on and live with the cost and the broads could well turn out better because if it! 

 

This forum was actually started because its founder was fed up with people judging people by their boat and the perception that some were unsuitable for the Broads, I know as I was there.

Just from my point of view, I love using my boat at sea but just because I forgo just about all other luxuries to pay for it doesn't mean I can afford the fuel bill if I use it out there all the time. I actually love the Broads and have spent 10 years on them as a boat owner and prior to that another 5 as a hirer.

I can use my boat a few weeks a year at sea but, given its fuel burn out there. if I want to move it the rest of the year then it needs to be on a river system. Does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to have a boat I can use at sea, or that if I do I should be penalised on the Broads? 

There is no difference at all between a twin screw and a single on the river, 2 props spinning at half the speed just gives greater maneuverability. Horse Power is another Red Herring, a boat capable of producing 500 hp uses no more horses than a boat with 50 on the river.

Unfortunately the attitude of the BA, and that of other River users has ensured that I will be among the growing number that are leaving for exactly the same reasons.  

[dnks34]

Nobody is telling you what you can and cant have Senator, certainly not me anyway.

 If your boat is the one in your profile picture and you keep where i think (if its the same one I have seen) then i think you will be paying through the nose for your mooring for starters! (Didnt want to say where in public and appologies if im barking up the wrong tree!)

 

 

  

[MauriceMynah]

Staying on the broads to avoid the waves???

I've never heard anything more ridiculous!!

You can't avoid waves on the broads, everybody does it!

[diesel falcon]

Now don,t you dare put a back up outboard on your transum!! police that.

[quo vadis]

Pipe down Denzil 

[Guest]

A lot of posters on Broads forums are clearly prejudiced, even though they would hotly deny it.

It shouldn't matter whether anyone prefers Classic Wooden, Tupperware, Sail, or Power, it's a free world, and each of us has a right to use whichever type of craft we like, within the river authority's rules.

Believing that twin engines, high power, or seagoing capability should increase the toll fee shows a prejudice in itself.

95% of the Broads has speed limits up to a maximum of 6 knots, so the only factor that should influence the toll cost is the length and beam.

Why on earth should a boat with twin engines pay more than one of the same size with a single engine ? The disturbance through the water at the same speed is not going to be more, and it takes up exactly the same space.

Why should higher horsepower pay more ? With the speed limit capping, the pollution will be the same and the noise level is likely to be less, with the engine doing lower revs.

Persistently bandied phrases like the "Brundall trundle" reveal a clear disrespect for other boater's personal choices.

A small old ex-hire craft with a worn out diesel engine could easily pollute the environment and make more noise than a modern "bling boat" with sophisticated engine(s).

A sailing cruiser takes up far more river space than it's beam compared to a motor cruiser when the wind is against it.

Each type of river user can think of ways why their choice is best and should pay less, but size is the only genuinely fair yardstick.

 

[JennyMorgan]

For your information, Strow, the term  "Brundall trundle" is coined from those who choose to do it, it shows no disrespect, it is a popular term amongst members of the Brundall Big Boat Fleet to describe the Brundall to Oulton Broad journey once very popular with its owners.

Re boats with twin props, there is a perfectly reasonable theory that off centre props, being potentially nearer the bank, could cause more erosion than single ones. They certainly have the potential to produce twice the turbidity which in itself produces well proven, documented, detrimental effects to the waterway. Granted that other factors have a greater effect but nevertheless boats play a part, albeit minor,

[dnks34]

Strowager please dont suggest I am prejudiced.

If the only fair way is by size then explain why a toll for a dinghy is roughly a quarter of what i am paying for an 11m boat.  The figures just dont add up do they!?