Emergency ladders

[lincan]

Hello All,

 Wondering what boaters thoughts are about hire boats having emergency ladders provided. All boats have life rings, so if one is used it will be for someone in the water. But then how does the unfortunate person get out if the boat is either on the move and may be mid-river, or is tied up where there isn't an easy way out. Also, what if other crew members are not able to pull them out or it's only a two berth boat. On a previous holiday we saw a hire boat who had their own emergency ladder that was folded into a bag similar to a first aid pouch, and was tied to the handrail ready for an emergency. l have seen some on ebay made of rope with plastic treads, so presume it would be looped over a stern cleat at the side, away from the prop [if it's still turning] or at the bow depending on the boat.  A lot of the newer built boats have small fold-up ladders built in, or dropped sterns that make it easier to get out of the water.  

[Lastdraft]

They cost very little and in my opinion all boats should carry them. They should be located away from the stern removing the possibility of injury from the props . An absolute must at sea if the boat is pitching in a swell, trying to board via the swim platform in this scenario the man overboard would be able to see the props before they chopped his feet off !!  

[johnb]

I was interested in these a little while ago. I was advised that rope ladders are likely to move away from the person trying to climb and disappear under or against the hull, so difficult to get back on the boat from. I thought at least it's something to hold on to!

 

[BroadAmbition]

I tailor made our emergency MOB ladder, rope / hardwood rungs, bottom rung lead weighted, May 2012 ready for our first sea trip.  Every time we sail it taken with us and stowed for easy fast access

We had cause to use it for the first time in anger Sat 10th at Reedham of all places, it worked very well and as a result we have full confidence in it

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

Oh and like our deck mopped it is security marked!

Griff

 

 

[Wussername]

A very interesting topic. One which deserves consideration.
I was speaking to a crew member of Broad Ambition the other day, it is interesting to note that I was informed that prior to any trip, voyage, the crew are reminded of the Man Overboard procedure which will be adopted in the event of such an incident occurring.
I suspect that few private owners follow this discipline. Of course I may be wrong.
It is a long time since I hired a boat, but I cannot remember much emphasise being placed on following such a practice.
We have been very fortunate over the last few years in that the number of fatalities caused by people simply "falling in" have been very few.  Unfortunately some have been caused by people being "in drink". 
I am often to be found at Reedham, at all times of the year. Sitting on the quay, having lunch, watching the world go buy. Boats coming and going. 
Spring is a lovely time to spend on the river. But the weather is sometimes very cold. When that wind comes across Halvergate you know that no one has breathed it before you. The River Yare is freezing cold. 
Craft that come in to moor are in variably under control, one or two issuues, but in the main, the crew are ready, wearing winter anaracks, hanging on by grim death to the ships rail before disembarking and tying the boat up.
It is on leaving the mooring that the crew is at most risk. Once again in winter clothing. In tidal conditions, the crew, some 30 or 40 feet from the helm, has untied the stern. The craft leaves the mooring at full power. The crew member, makes tidy the mooring ropes. The stern of the boat hits an adjacent boat or the bank. 
The crew member overbalances and falls in. Sometimes no lifejacket. 
This now becomes a very serious life threatening situation.
Life expectancy under these circumstances become critical.
How do you get that person out of the water, position the boat if inexperienced. Laden down with sodden wet clothes. It can be a challenge. 
The life ring. How do you throw it. Where do you throw. How can you throw it. How do you get in the bloody thing, or hopefully do you hang onto the line and hoped to be pulled to safety.
The ladder should be installed on all craft as a matter of course. Life jackets should be mandatory on certain parts of the Broads, certainly by those people on deck.
It all sounds doom and gloom, the risk factor exists, it is real. But, it can be minimised, cheaply and affectively.

 

[BroadAmbition]

It's not just onboard 'B.A' it is our hire boats too.

We do a brief for newbies and regulars alike in the following order:-

Fire  /  Flood  /  MOB  /  First Aid  /  Going on deck & Deck gear / Systems onboard / Night nav-ing if anticipated

Thank goodness I did too. that brief was carried out before we sailed from base Friday at 1945 in darkness round to PH, (Arriving after 2230) Then the very next day 1730-ish we had a genuine MOB at Reedham, The crew performed exemplary as they all knew what to do, where to do it and what order.  I was proper proud of them, the MOB (One of our own crew) was somewhat relieved too methinks!

Griff

[MBA Marine]

All new builds have to have some form of emergency ladder.

I was told this earlier this year, not something I knew already. 

[BroadAmbition]

Just how would an inexperienced crew get an average sized adult crew member out of the water back onboard without a ladder or say a dinghy?

It's proper difficult to say the least, I would have thought all craft should have some manner of retrieving a person from the water back onboard, some sections of river have piled banks that make it impossible to safely get out of deep water

When on hire boats I explain to crew how to make a large loop in a mooring rope and how to get it under the MOB arms if not a foot on the rope and secured to a cleat, but how many inexperienced crew are taught this method by the yards? - probably none of them.

A life-ring with a light flotation line is all very well but hardly functional at getting a person back onboard.

What I really ought to do is practise what I preach and make another couple of MOB rope ladders like 'B.A's and keep them for when afloat with the hire boats during our 'Lads Week' That will protect / help us but won't help other inexperienced crews if we are not in the right place at the right time

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

I think that it is down to each and everyone of us to ask ourselves how would we cope if we fell in. Okay having a boarding ladder but could you pull yourself up and out of the water? Best cure is not to fall in in the first place! One hand for you and one for the boat, works every time. 

[Seriously]

My dad use to do a bit of rock climbing in his younger days. Three points of contact at all times    I'm always driving it into the kids. So far, so good .

I noticed at the weekend that  a gentleman fell in the water at horning, watching the regatta. It took a few mintues and three people to pull him out which seemed to be only a little drop from the river to the staithe.

Must admit the older I get the harder it will to pull myself out let alone some one else.

Must remember to stay on dry land   

[MBA Marine]

It is an interesting topic, I am still at a stage in my life where I can haul my body around fairly well and although I would not enjoy lugging my soaked self laden with wet clothes out of the water I could on most boats, some have very high sides the seamaster 30 im currently painting is like this and this boat could be quite the effort.

The average body shape of people is changing and not in a good way, people are spreading and some are just huge, whist very buoyant with shape and fat percentage floating is not a problem (unlike myself, if i stop i sink! tested and proven) getting out the water would be very difficult without aid, some seem to struggle to ascend steps, I cant see these people getting up a boarding ladder rope or rigid.  

[ranworthbreeze]

We have let down side boarding ladders (lift up and hinged stainless ladders) on Ranworth Breeze, they are great for mooring up and could be used for holding onto the boat if a crew member fell in, with help you could then climb back aboard.

Many boats just have foot and hand holds which would be totally useless in a MOB situation, soaked heavy cloths, wet cold, possible mud coated hands.

Regard

Alan

[Guest]

Emergency ladders is a topic that has come up on this forum (and others),  a number of times before, with some very good input and advice given.

It's good to hear it being discussed again though, anything that makes it less of a shock when the time comes could save lives.

Being a long-time dinghy sailor and canoeist, I know how hard it is to climb out of deep water, even when wearing a lifejacket or buoyancy aid, (let alone maybe without one ).

I've always equipped all of my high freeboard cruisers with some sort of emergency ladder, always deployable unaided from the water, for lone cruising, and even for the possible use of someone else floating past my boat when I'm not there.

There are a number of emergency boarding ladders available commercially that consist of a small bag fastened to the railings or gunwales of a boat. They have a strap or rope dangling down to the water's surface which can be pulled by anyone in the water which then drops the folding ladder down. Crucially, this extends down to at least three feet below the surface, usually weighted.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=emergency+ladder&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMI9Lyi24PYyAIVxbUaCh1xagav&biw=1194&bih=639#tbm=isch&q=emergency+boarding+ladder

Ok, so it is more difficult to climb a rope ladder than a rigid one, but I've always thought that it was far better to have this as a permanent fixture on the boat, rather than just a clip on rigid ladder that needs another person's assistance.

My current boat has a an integral swim platform, which I consider to be the ultimate MOB rescue aid, being about six inches above the surface, and large enough to easily support the rescuer and the MOB. Mine also has a folding rigid ladder that can be swung out by anyone in the water, again, even if unaided.

It's a fortunate accident that although "bathing platforms" were primarily designed for places like the Med rather than the often chilly Broads, they are purpose designed for swimmers to climb aboard, unaided.

Ok, so the propeller of the outdrive is just underneath it, which is a potential hazard, but engines should always be in neutral anyway, when an MOB is alongside or being pulled aboard.

There seems to be a steady increase in Broads hire craft with rear platforms now, even day boats, so hirers are gradually being better equipped to handle MOB emergencies.

The other option, as advised by the RYA, is to use an inflatable dinghy, fastened to the mother ship, as a low freeboard soft "step" to retrieve the MOB, especially if they are heavy or injured.

If your cruiser doesn't have an inflatable dinghy, even a cheapo beach "toy" type of dinghy could be a useful piece of rescue equipment, costing only a few pounds and kept in it's very small packet, until needed.

 

[JennyMorgan]

On a sailing boat hoiking out the heaviest casualty is a relatively easy task, simply by lowering sail into the water and then floating the body into the belly of the sail. The sail is then hoisted enough to offload the body onto the deck. Great, if there is a capable crew. This then begs the question, is your crew capable? Athletes maintain their health in order to participate in their chosen sport, do you?

[lincan]

Hello All,

 Thanks for the interest, some good points too!  BroadAmbition, that's a good sturdy job you've done there, and it's already proved it's worth. Not having much idea about morse, what do the security markings say?                    We've not really given much thought about this kind of emergency in the past, just always tried to be extra safety conscious getting on and off the boats, and our idea has also been the long loop of mooring rope tied round a cleat if needed. But getting older and less agile, plus seeing the emergency ladder on the other hire boat has made us rethink. After all, it only has to happen the once to end in tragedy.                                                                                It's interesting what MBA Marine says, that all new builds have to have some form of emergency ladder. Was that decided the same time as having emergency ladders built at B.A. moorings l wonder. Perhaps the H & S rules will catch up with the older boats eventually.

[quo vadis]

Our MOB ladder is very similar to Griffs but our rungs are all threaded and spaced out onto two pieces of rope, making it easier to deploy, use and recover

[quo vadis]

And we don't have as many flower pots attached

[BroadAmbition]

LOL

The morse reads:- BA  R641   On our mop handle - BA

Griff

[SweetKingfisher1]

Our MOB ladder is very similar to Griffs but our rungs are all threaded and spaced out onto two pieces of rope, making it easier to deploy, use and recover

This sounds like the ladder we have on the boat. We brought it for when I might have problems getting off / on the boat .

Regards

Marina  

[lincan]

 BroadsAmbition,

 That's a good, original idea!

[Wussername]

LOL

The morse reads:- BA  R641   On our mop handle - BA

Griff

A collectors item............or what.

Hide them in the cabin.