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ChrisB

Cockshoot

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NDAA, Norwich & District Angling Association, bit of a coup for the anglers!

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These rich greedy anglers who do they think they are?!!!:taunt:

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Have you seen the state of the fishing platforms along the cockshoot riverbank? I wouldnt fish from them! I wonder if the NNDAA has to repair the paths and platforms or just use them until they are too dangerous?

Also if you trespass you are unlikely to get sued through the civil courts but are you covered in the event of an accident on the unsafe boardwalk? Is it worth the risk if the path is not maintained properly?:Sailing

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Will other moorings fall to us anglers? For obvious reasons I have mixed feelings on this oneFish2!!

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Marshman, JM etc.

Does anyone know how long the boardwalk or just  a pathway has been open to the public i.e. the usual  20 year or any other definition, for it to constitute a Public Footpath or legal Right of Way.

                                 Fred  

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The OL40  ordnance survey map shows it only as a permissive footpath, rather than a full right of way.

(I attached an extract of that map earlier in this thread).

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I was a Engineering Logistition not a lawyer but I think there is a distinct difference between a path that is leased to a body as in this case and a permissive or concessionary path.

A concessionary path is where a landowner has granted permission to groups of users of his choosing ie Walker, horse etc. Normally such a path is clearly signed as such and is often closed for a period perhaps just a day per year as proof no continuous access has taken place. He may deviate it and close it at will.

I am pretty sure that OS is out of date. (Many areas are) and subsequent leasing of the boadwalk to BA would not constitute a permissive footpath in the true sense as it would have a defined ending date and other terms of lease. In other words it is no different to many of their moorings in not conferring a permanent right.

 

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Ref link footpath from LB to the 'St Benets permissive circular  footpath' within the Horning Parish boundary......

Sadly as always people comment without knowing all the facts......

Due to H&S, the crane and insurance there were legal issues with the general public (sometimes with children & dogs etc)  walking through the boatyard and past the windows of the cottage where Peggy Lumbard lived.

So several ideas were discussed between ALL parties concerned. 

it was decided that if an official footpath route was going to be opened & advertised for St Benets Abbey, the actually crossing at the bridge would be too dangerous. We looked at fenced areas etc however it was then agreed the safest option was around field further up the road and a possible open an entrance direct from the camp site.

The BA wanted to sort this, but constantly failed to sort out some minor legal agreements with the different land owners. Even negotiated on a £200 fee, saying the BA could only afford £150! The land owners became very frustrated, the BA promised & promised the footpath will be open however they did NOTHING. Even the Environment Agency said it was a waste of time trying to sort, as even they didn't know at that stage who legally owner the river bank!  

So the matter went on, and on and on! 

The  crane in no longer there, the current business is not a limited company, and it does not currently have PAYE employees,  and may not any get any official visits via the H&S, so they could be more flexible. 

So yes time changes things, but everyone in life has a responsibility to make sure they keep within the law. Any doubts just ask the land owner or check the latest OS maps....

Hope this helps 

Regards

Jason (semi-retired!) 

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8 hours ago, sos247 said:

Ref link footpath from LB to the 'St Benets permissive circular  footpath' within the Horning Parish boundary......

Sadly as always people comment without knowing all the facts......

Like I said in one of my previous posts, "This was exhaustively debated at the time, but years can sometimes blur the facts."

The very short section of footpath through LBBY was closed long before any intention to advertise it publicly, and it is still the only way that LBBY customers and mooring renters can access the yard or their boats, often ("with children and dogs").

When Robert Paul ran the yard for many years previously, even the Nancy Oldfield Trust had access to their moorings (for handicapped people), along the self same path, till they were moved to the other side of the bridge, just after the footpath was closed by LBBY.

The intention to advertise the path as a route to St Benets was announced long after the closure, to re-enable the riverside footpath that was lost.

...and there still is a crane on the yard, a much larger one.

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Don't think so, Strow. I've just had Sunbird out there, and they hire a crane as and when. Unless they've bought one in the past week!:)

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Sorry Jason I don't see the connection two totally different situations,

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎17‎:‎18‎:‎10, Alone1 said:

 

Have you seen the state of the fishing platforms along the cockshoot riverbank? I wouldnt fish from them! I wonder if the NNDAA has to repair the paths and platforms or just use them until they are too dangerous?

Also if you trespass you are unlikely to get sued through the civil courts but are you covered in the event of an accident on the unsafe boardwalk? Is it worth the risk if the path is not maintained properly?:Sailing

Last time I walked there some of those platforms had been replaced and I believe they were installed by the EA.

During the summer I saw the whole boardwalk being surveyed by a member of the BA along with EA and one other possibly NWT.

Back to my original comment re public footpath, I don't know all the legalities regarding footpaths etc but understand the different categories, my observation is that I have never been aware of any restrictions on the use of the boardwalk or of any notice  or the usual markings (not that I have looked particularly) defining its status or that it is not a public footpath, therefore would it not be possible to claim this as a public footpath by default or under the right to roam legislation.

As I say this is purely an observation and I stand to be corrected on any aspect by those who understand these things or have better local knowledge but do think it may be worth further consideration if there is any chance of keeping this open to public use.

                                      Fred

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1 hour ago, Regulo said:

Don't think so, Strow. I've just had Sunbird out there, and they hire a crane as and when. Unless they've bought one in the past week!:)

I stand corrected on that then Regulo, the yard still seems to be very popular for Winter lifts, and is now quite full again.

When the old cable crane was replaced by the bigger hydraulic one a few years ago, that still seemed to be there every time I passed, even after the change of management.

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 Apologies Strowager, but unfortunately unless you were in the initial meetings between myself and Nancy Oldfield and then subsequently the EA, BA , some local people and both parish councils , 'your' information will include some hearsay and assumptions...... !!!

However, the authorities are on the case and doing things as fast as their systems allow, and hopefully in the future they will be a safe and maintained walking footpath from LB to St Benets......

 

luckily I don't need to worry about this now......!! 

 

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Oi! Exscuse me Mister. It's a National Park. Innit?

Are they all fenced off like wot Norfolk is? Grab a bit whilst you can is wot I says.

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Also up until the day I left the yard, any official BA walks would phone us and book in a day when they would like to walk through the boatyard. Plus several ramblers came to the workshop and  to politely ask if they could walk through, as they were lost and the OS map was not clear. 

 

Generally when I was at the yard I personally owned the crane & lifting equipment, the staff were able to use these at ANY time during the day depending on work load. So it was not good practice in the middle of moving/lifting a 10ton boat for people/children/dogs to wonder through the yard! .......so controls had to be put in place. Its called common sense! 

However, if the situation now is that a crane is hired in for the day, the company concerned look after their own public liability insurance plus have their own staff - banksman/slingers..... Also it is prearranged, so as an example if its arriving on the  10th Nov for one day hire the business owner knows that the risk to the public being crushed by a 10ton boat is greatly reduced the other days of the month!

 

The EA believe they are the land owners however, the Ludham Bridge staithe is still by the bridge on the boatyard side.  The paperwork regards to swapping this land had still not been found the last time i checked but time change things.....

 

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47 minutes ago, sos247 said:

 .....However, the authorities are on the case and doing things as fast as their systems allow, and hopefully in the future they will be a safe and maintained walking footpath from LB to St Benets......

That is indeed the hope Jason, though the Parish Council meetings have indicated for some time that all permissions have been granted, and the delay now appears to be purely the BA failing to schedule the actual work itself. The very short link bypassing the boatyard would appear to be a fairly small project, mostly fencing, to give the Public a ten year permissive footpath to regain access to the main riverside footpath.

Marshman's earlier post on this thread is a disappointing development, where his inside knowledge of the BA indicated that they were trying to blame the delay on "waiting for some papers to be signed".

The Parish Council are quite clear in their understanding that only the work itself remains to be done. One is forced to consider the possibility that the BA are hoping it will just fade away.

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Yes, the Parish meetings do seem to state that everything is signed between the land owners, but its been this way for quite a while.. ..!!

....I personally believe the authorities are not considering  all the details, mainly because the ST Benets circular walk crosses back across Hundred Dyke (finish on river bank) So because the EA land is involved they may still legally need to be involved! However, the EA are not sure if they even own certain sections of river bank, especially where there seems to be an old basin. 

Anyway I really do hope they finally sort this footpath,  as it will improve the area and help the businesses to be a starting/finishing point on the OS map. However, after my short experience dealing with the EA & BA (7 yrs) it could take them a while!

Plus i have seen a letter (read out at the Parish Meeting) from the Council stating that they are struggling to maintain the existing footpaths, so don't really want to take on any further footpath responsibilities......

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I recently had a nasty fall on a poorly maintained walkway. The netting had lifted and I tripped on it. I know how to fall safely, (drama training) and turned it into a roll, so no bones broken, which there assuredly would have been otherwise. Just saying, 'watch your step' as budgets are tightening.

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I just imagined you doing a Starsky & Hutch type roll Polly, and it made me smile! 

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