I think we have moored on a tip!

[Oddfellow]

The law may be that waste generated from a hire boat is the responsibility of the operator, but as is clearly the case here; the law is an ass. There is not one hirer out there that is going to save up all their waste on a week's holiday to return it to the hiring base. There would not be space on the boat for it and it would become a hazard; quickly. 

Any council that cannot see this is deserving of the derision it will receive. 

Waste disposal costs a small fortune each year for my small business; I dread to think how much Richardson's pay for the numerous dumpster skips around the Stalham site alone. This is a hidden cost to the business that most hirers won't even think about. As these costs to the business increases, so too must the hire charge or have an off-set in savings. Perhaps there's no wage increases or a redundancy, or something similar. 

The point is that all these things have to be paid for somehow and the council removing any such service simply creates a problem elsewhere which, ultimately, is likely to affect the council's income somewhere else that is almost certainly no less dramatic than the initial saving but soooooo much harder to detect. 

 

[Boatingman]

Dave

Just one final thought

you rightly state the bins on Great Yarmouth sea front are for domestic waste therefore MR and Mrs Smith staying at a Guest House in Great Yarmouth can put waste in a bin on the sea front as domestic waste but the same couple on a hire craft put waste in a bin at Reedham and the Hire company should pay as trade waste

totally wrong

Ray

[Labrador]

Again all this discussion is all very well, but at the end of the day the river banks are going to be covered in heaps of stinking rubbish. It was bad enough before so many bins/skips were removed, now the situation well only be made worse. No good objecting, it was tried when GY council stated the ball rolling a couple of years ago. 

The money saved by the councils, like Broadland, goes to producing their glossy quarterly magazine telling you how well they are doing!

[Oddfellow]

It is worth complaining. The problem is that not nearly enough people complained for long enough.

The people of this country are not nearly good enough at protesting. We tend to accept the status quo and simply bitch about without great effect and then vote the buggers back in when it comes to elections and so the cycle starts again. 

Make your voices heard, because nobody will take any damn notice if you don't. 

Perhaps start here: https://www.northnorfolk.org/council/5078.asp

https://www.facebook.com/NorthNorfolkDC/

Contact Norman Lamb http://www.normanlamb.org.uk/

 

[vanessan]

This is a subject that has been around for the last couple of years, only the situation is now getting ridiculous. As a private boater who spends a few weeks at a time on the rivers, refuse disposal is becoming a nightmare. With the amount of packaging now on goods, it does not take very long to fill a bin bag which has to be stored somewhere on the boat - maybe for days until a bin can be found. Hire yards do not take kindly to private craft depositing rubbish in their bins, quite understandably. But then ours is not classed as 'trade waste' so shouldn't go in hire yard bins anyway! It is certainly not fair on the holidaymaker on any boat to have to cart smelly rubbish around for days, what about young families with a baby or large families who will naturally create more waste? And dog owners who do the decent thing and clear up after their animals? (It's no wonder we now see poo bags left hanging in bushes although that is something that really makes me angry.)

We can talk about this ad infinitum or we can try and do something about it. I'm not sure where or who one should write to and start the ball rolling - local councils, MPs, BA? Start a petition? Anybody any ideas? 

[JawsOrca]

19 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

It is worth complaining. The problem is that not nearly enough people complained for long enough.

Perhaps start here: https://www.northnorfolk.org/council/5078.asp

 

 

I complained to NN council Email to ( yourviewscount@north-norfolk.gov.uk  ).. I guess our boat is moored in their council.. We had to bring our rubbish home.. The compactor at ranworth is no more. Personally I don't think it's fair on my council to bring back rubbish.. Rubbish made in norfolk.. Norfolks problem.

Perhaps we do need a complain but I feel lots of people moan on forums and facebook but don't moan any further so it won't be filled out.  As Andy said eveyone needs to complain direct to the councils.. 

[Bound2Please]

1 hour ago, Boatingman said:

Dave

Just one final thought

you rightly state the bins on Great Yarmouth sea front are for domestic waste therefore MR and Mrs Smith staying at a Guest House in Great Yarmouth can put waste in a bin on the sea front as domestic waste but the same couple on a hire craft put waste in a bin at Reedham and the Hire company should pay as trade waste

totally wrong

Ray

Ray just the point I was making

[vanessan]

I see some suggestions have been made as points of contact, it's a start. Nothing ventured nothing gained. I hope others will also take up the fight.

[marshman]

At least this is marginally better and more fun than reading about Jenners basin!!

But please do not blame the BA - it is no more the BA's responsibility than is the quality of the water which Anglian Water discharges into the rivers!!

i agree it may seem to make some sense for the BA to provide these facilities but why should the BA be forced to pay for something which the Authority have no legal responsibility for and which in reality local Councils are merely trying to dump their responsibility for? It does of course, to the Councils, appear to be the path of least resistance i guess.

[Poppy]

I in no way condone the dumping of rubbish on the river bank - however it is happening already, and will now get worse.

Reporting any sightings to the Environmental Health department of the appropriate Council will cause them considerable nuisance , since once reported they have an obligation to deal with it !

http://www.environmentlaw.org.uk/rte.asp?id=29

[Boatingman]

Hi Dave

I agree with you re EA like you have plenty of dealings with them and as you say they do and will prosecute but clearing of waste is the Local authorities responsibility perhaps when rubbish gets left in heaps where waste bins once where the EA will prosecute the local authority.

I also agree the law is there to stop rubbish dumping where I disagree is the point personnel waste becomes trade waste in the boatyard yes it is the boatyards responsibility to dispose within the law 

I do not think the boatyard as a responsibility in respect of waste disposed by individual whilst hiring one of there craft, if you took that to an extreme car hire companies wold be responsible for waste  generated in there carsThe

The real issue is that if local authorities around the broads want to promote tourism to generate income within there area they need to provide facilities for the tourist the cost of which is very small compared with revenue generated

Ray

 

 

[Hylander]

I can just see the brochures now with holiday boats cruising along with the back of the boat littered with black sacks full of domestic waste.

 

I am sure one of you can doctor a photo to show this.   You are far more clever than I am.

 

I might email this Brandon Lewis who apparently is supposed to be the MP for Gt Yarmouth.   We will see if he is just a career politician or a real man of his word.

I know what will be on the top of my list for things for the boat in June and that is a roll of heavy duty garden sacks together with a roll of black sacks.    Two tied up together you may have a chance of not smelling the contents.

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisB]

I think you will find that it is the land owner who ends up having to deal with fly tipping on the river bank, no wonder both wild and formal moorings go. Not to mention fires and abandoned bar-b-que rubbish.

[BuffaloBill]

I have sent a rather scathing Email to that link provided by Andy.

The next one will go Norman Lamb and be followed by one to Look East.

Come on people, lets get this moving NOW!!

[Hylander]

2 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

I think you will find that it is the land owner who ends up having to deal with fly tipping on the river bank, no wonder both wild and formal moorings go. 

It used to be that the folk mooring spoilt these informal moorings but now we can fairly and squarely blame the local authority.

[LizG]

It doesn't matter what the rules, the regulations, or the laws say, the simple fact is that people whoever they are be some hirers, private owners, fishermen etc will simply dump their rubbish. Just like some people do when they hit the restrictions of their local tip. Then 'we' still have to pay for the clear up whether it be through tax, rates or in this case may be tolls. There is no winner! But in the meantime the beauty of the environment will suffer!

[Hylander]

My email to Brandon Lewis..

 

Good afternoon

It has been brought to my attention that there are no facilities for the boating fraternity in Gt Yarmouth.    This is also reflected across the Broads as a whole and it an utter disgrace.      If you wish to attract visitors whether they be from the hire craft section or the privateer section you have to provide facilities for people to dispose of their rubbish.  To say that a hirer has to 'take his rubbish home with him/her' is ludicrous.    I can picture the glossy magazines promoting holidays on the broads with boats showing mountains of black sacks on the back of them due to the lack of facilities.

This is 2016 not the 17th Century,  do we really want people to dump their rubbish (which they will) in the rivers and banks and attract rats and plague.

I do think the Councils in this region have been very short sighted in all of this.   Dont say to me you have not got the money, you have when it is suits.  

The Broads is a thriving holiday destination, let us keep it so.
 

[Islander]

I think that with hire craft of 8,10 and12 berth who will be creating a considerable amount of waste we are going to see a lot of black sacks floating along the river that have accidentally fallen off the the back. The reclassification of waste is the major cause here and won't go away. It does make me think just what the advantages are of being in the EU.

Colinwhoops another empty bottle to dispose of.

[SteveO]

So by tortured logic, waste from hire boats can be classified as "trade waste" for which the council does not have a statutory duty to provide disposal facilities.  By the same token, waste from private boats is domestic waste,  which the council has a mandatory  responsibility to dispose of under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. I will be interested to see how NNDC and others plan to discharge their responsibility for removal of waste generated by private boat owners.

I may be wrong, but I am sure that some forum "blowhard" will pop out of the woodwork and tell me so, if I am.

Seve

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Poppy]

37 minutes ago, Islander said:

I think that with hire craft of 8,10 and12 berth who will be creating a considerable amount of waste we are going to see a lot of black sacks floating along the river that have accidentally fallen off the the back. The reclassification of waste is the major cause here and won't go away. It does make me think just what the advantages are of being in the EU.

Colinwhoops another empty bottle to dispose of.

Islander.  Not sure exactly what your point is about EU membership. Could you give chapter and verse showing how they are involved please?

[jeffbroadslover]

It amazes me that when a council is told it has to save x amount of cash the immediate response is " we will have to cut services"

I always thought that the council was there to "provide a service" ( that's what I was told when I worked for one)

Why should members of the public suffer ?

A much simpler solution would be to cut the number of managers and section heads in the council.  It seems to me that everyone who works for a council has their own individual manager.

I find it difficult to understand how a wrapper taken off a product can be classed as both trade and domestic waste.

If I eat a packet of crisps in the street it is domestic waste but if I eat it on a hire boat it is trade waste ????

The mind boggles.

Jeff

[Islander]

Hi Poppy, I hope I'm not wrong here but I had heard that it was an EU directive on waste disposal. Maybe Dajen (Dave) can put me right on this to the benefit of us all.

Colin

[Boatingman]

Dave

Whilst I accept what you say as fact as I said earlier I cannot see the EA attempting to bring a prosecution against a boatyard in respect of one of there clients putting rubbish in a waste bin at say Reedham.

I agree that any waste from any buisness is trade waste therefore if a family hires a cottage and goes out on a picnic and puts waste in a bin the owner of the let is responsible in law and could therefore be prosecuted similarly the rules would apply to vehicle hire companies companies who hire out motor homes caravans etc

Even the EA who as you say will be prosecute anything would not risk that type of prosecution.

We still get back to the fact it is the Local Authority who are responsible for collecting domestic waste including general and fly tipped waste The EA only as the responsibility of ensuring it is disposed of correctly

If as you say boatyards should set up a separate network and pay for it what about the other trade users holiday let's etc would just get ridiculous.

surely if each local authority accepts as in general they do that waste deposited in there area is there responsibility to collect we do not have a problem if the authorities in Norfolk was to promote tourism as I said before the cost is a very small price to pay in respect of the overall income generated through tourists visiting the area.

I think I have said enough on this subject

 

Ray

[Islander]

If I was to pay to dispose of my rubbish would that then make it trade waste. If that is the case couldn't we have waste bins/compactors that could be activated with a disposable card like the electric cards we use. Hire companies could then provide some with every hire and private boats could purchase them too if we wished. I would rather pay 50p or £1 to dispose of a bag of rotting, wasp attracting rubbish than store it on my back deck for a week in August. The thought of having to travel any distance with a weeks worth of rubbish in the boot is just not on.

This idea probably won't happen as it will be too costly to setup. Anyone got any good ideas other than trying to force the councils to do their job.

 

Colin

 

[LizG]

At work we create waste and my bosses have to pay to have it taken away but on the whole what is the difference between our rubbish created in our own homes and that when on a boat or a holiday let. The difference in most cases though it doesn't get recycled?