The Northern Distributer Road AKA Norwich Northern Bypass

[MauriceMynah]

10 hours ago, Regulo said:

Governments have no idea of the impracticality of their "green" announcements.

I'm afraid the cynic in me says that the governments know damned well the impracticality of it, but hopes/believes (with some justification) that the general public does not.

 

[grendel]

most developments now that have on site parking are required to have a percentage of car charging points designed in - however there is an easy way around this - you put in bicycle storage and no parking spaces, the number of 20 story flats we see the plans for, 200 flats, storage for 300 bicycles- 5 parking spaces, now in central London this is possible as there are good transport links, but out in the suburbs....

[NeilB]

Volvo Bus have been running full electric bus trials in various cities across the UK.  They use an overhead charger which outputs up to 300Kw installed at a couple of locations on the busses route.  Everyone was on board, local councils, bus companies , planning authorities etc, basically every organisation that required an input did their upmost to make these trials work.

Except the power supply companies.  To be fair, I've no idea what the issues were but they were stopping the trials from going ahead.  In the we (Volvo Penta) stepped in and supplied a diesel genset to power the chargers, so not very green - apart from the engine !

 

[MauriceMynah]

If it is GLOBAL warming, climate change, pollution or the running out of fossil fuels that is the issue, I still mdon't understand how producing electricity somewhere else, helps!

Take a winters evening, say 16:00 hours. It's a dark still evening. What is producing the leccy?  

[Vaughan]

10 hours ago, grendel said:

if we build nothing but power stations and substations from now until the deadline, when they go all electric - we might just manage, but then nobody wants a new power station / solar farm / wind farm in their neighbourhood, so when we dont get the planning permission to build them, people wont get their energy to charge their electric cars. simples.

When you see it summed up like that in one sentence, from some-one who knows, it is really rather pathetic.

I saw in the EDP a day or two ago that Breckland Council have announced a green initiative to install fast electric car charging points "across Breckland"!

There will actually be four of them, one each in the centre of four rural towns. So that will really make a difference! 

[grendel]

might help one or two drivers

[grendel]

I think the government are hoping that by the time we have to all 'go electric' the car manufacturers will have perfected the hydrogen fuel cell, when all that will be needed would be to convert all of the existing petrol stations to hydrogen filling stations, this is a much faster and better process than charging electric vehicles and brings the roadside filling back into the same timeframe as fossil fuel vehicles (ok it takes a bit longer to fill the coal bunker on a steam roller).

hydrogen fuel cells are the future really, its a shame there are only a handful of filling stations already as there are some manufacturers producing fuel cell cars.

once again (as with the charge points its a chicken and egg situation, the population wont but electric vehicles until the charging infrastructure is in place, and the councils wont install them unless there is enough demand.

[Regulo]

Do I detect "Thread drift"? There's a lot of it about! 

[grendel]

I think we drifted into one of those roundabouts and headed off on another tack.

[MauriceMynah]

It seems to me that any political group can be seen to be green or anti green, there is no neutral position. To be seen as anti green is political suicide where to be seen as green means making promises that will be impossible to keep.

The human has "ruled" the earth for just a couple of million years or so, the dinosaurs lasted rather longer ( but they didn't have Coronation street or MacDonald's to cope with ). No doubt something else will come along when we, human kind and estate agents, are long gone. We shall have to wait and see.

But (and yes, eventually I get to the point) this has had me wondering.

As I said in my last post we have been told in the past that we need to get away from using fossil fuels as experts have said we are going to run out. Then we were told by other experts, or the same experts wearing a different hat, that  we need to get away from using fossil fuels because of the pollution they create

After a decent interval those experts then told us that we need to get away from using fossil fuels because we were warming the planet up. Next they couldn't decide if we were heading for a new ice age or a global oven so they settled on just "Climate change", which is where we are now.

One thing I think we are learning here is not to listen too carefully to experts, but taking their general view we can accept that burning fossil fuels like there's no tomorrow could well lead us into a position when there isn't one.

I agree with Grendel that the Hydrogen fuel cell does look like the way forwards, but for running our hair straighteners and microwave ovens at home, Nuclear power is the only viable option. For we merry folk on boats, well diesel really isn't the bad boy everyone (well the experts) says it is. It'll do until they make a marine version of the hydrogen engine I can afford.

[Regulo]

Don't get me started on "experts". The gardening "experts" told me not to water my lawn last summer as "it'll recover when the rains come". Result: A sea of weeds on a grey surface, and a lawn that needs re-seeding or turfing. I should get Monty Don to come and do it, it's all his fault.

[grendel]

definition of an expert -

ex - has been

spurt - a drip under pressure

[MauriceMynah]

Does one need to mow weeds?

[Vaughan]

28 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Do I detect "Thread drift"? There's a lot of it about! 

No - it's mission creep.

[MauriceMynah]

As opposed to "Missionary creep" which is a bit different.  :)

[SteveO]

I see that this year's warm dry summer has brought the climate change "experts" out in droves.  Unsurprisingly, the latest "threat" they are bombarding us with is that of  more hot dry summers unless we change our evil ways.   I seem to remember that, a couple of years ago, the threat was cooler, wet and stormy .  Funny how the threat is always an extreme projection of the weather we have just had, or am I being unnecessarily suspicious.   Still, the good news is that with all that hot dry weather, we won't need to use nearly as much energy for heating and the surplus can be used to charge electric vehicles.

I heard somewhere that, in order to power electric vehicles on a like for like basis, we will require between 4 and 6 very large nuclear power stations of the type we have so far failed to have built for us at Hinkley Point.   Unless there is a breakthrough in hydrogen fuel cell technology, which seems unlikely given that the original concept dates back to the 1830s, I think that politicians and meteorologists are barking at the moon.

[FairTmiddlin]

Almost correct Steve the Rivaz engine was the first Hydrogen/Oxygen internal combustion engine in 1806.

Samuel Brown trialed his hydrogen vehicle up Shooters hill in 1826.

Heinkel built a hydrogen jet in 1936 Erren patented the Errin engine in the US in 1939  (but that got quickly forgotten. (purportedly bought up by the standard fuel company/Ford motor company) whichever conspiracy theorist you listen to.

An unlikely runner in the hydrogen market was Allis Chalmers of the tractor and combine company who between 1958 and 1965 made a fuel cell tractor, Forklift and a Golf cart

Production vehicles, as opposed to concept that never made the production line are:

2007  Honda clarity - hydrogen fuel cell , 2010  Mercedes F cell , 2014 Hyundaia Tuscon FCEV

2015 Toyota Miria production version of the FCV concept car , 2016 Riversimple Rasa

2016 Honda Clarity , 2018 Hyundia Nexo

[SteveO]

Well at  estimated on the road prices of around £65K , if and when they are put on sale in UK,  and with only around 14 hydrogen refilling points  in the entire country I won't be rushing to buy a hydrogen powered vehicle just yet. 

[BroadAmbition]

Used the NDR yesterday, left Stalham at 1630 - It was dark of course, straight through Wroxham and onto the NDR, right through to the Western end then onto the A47.  It was at that time of day the busiest I have seen it, yet no problems it was fast moving and a pleasure to be on.  I had no issues with the much talked about roundabouts or lane markings, neither did anyone else that I could see

Griff

[TheQ]

Morning,

Coltishall road /NDR roundabout is surrounded by cones today (27/11/18) there were two Highway traffic control Transit lorries there just begining to place them when I went through.

Also 27th, 28th 29th the road down from the cremated Swan through Ingham Corner will be closed for waterworks, again the highway traffic control lorry was just arriving as I went through.

[TheQ]

Morning, there is another car on top of the NDR / Wroxham road roundabout, it's been there since before 15:00 yesterday. It's taken out the road signs from the airport direction. However there is a lot of damage to the left hand side of the car, which suggests it may have had help getting onto the roundabout from another vehicle.

 

As an aside to this there is water pouring out of the undergrowth at the A149 / Stalham- Palling road junction, by the Tescos petrol station.  This will cause major chaos when they no doubt take most of the road to fix something that is not on the road. There was a Anglian water man investgating kicking the mud with his boot yesterday..

[Hylander]

22 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Morning, there is another car on top of the NDR / Wroxham road roundabout, it's been there since before 15:00 yesterday. It's taken out the road signs from the airport direction. However there is a lot of damage to the left hand side of the car, which suggests it may have had help getting onto the roundabout from another vehicle.

 

As an aside to this there is water pouring out of the undergrowth at the A149 / Stalham- Palling road junction, by the Tescos petrol station.  This will cause major chaos when they no doubt take most of the road to fix something that is not on the road. There was a Anglian water man investgating kicking the mud with his boot yesterday..

I would suggest said car going far too fast.      Roundabouts are sign posted,    I did notice that one of the road signs was missing but generally speaking although laborious with all those roundabouts it is a good road.

[oldgregg]

Maldonado Island claims another victim!

Yeah it's not a bad road really. The camber and geometry of the roundabouts catches people out but really if they can't judge the speed they shouldn't be driving.

[JawsOrca]

It's why the motorway hasn't been invented in Norfolk.. The NDR clearly demonstrates that Norfolk locals can't drive on dual carriageways.. I guess that's what happens when you go from a Tractor to car though. I'm sure they will get it one day although the rest of country has had more time. 

[ranworthbreeze]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

Maldonado Island claims another victim!

Yeah it's not a bad road really. The camber and geometry of the roundabouts catches people out but really if they can't judge the speed they shouldn't be driving.

Yes the new roundabouts cambers have a lot to be desired, not only in Norfolk but elsewhere in the country.

Regards

Alan