The Northern Distributer Road AKA Norwich Northern Bypass

[addicted]

While we boat on the Broads we don't live locally so can't legitimately comment on the rights or wrongs of any Norfolk road building scheme. Do agree that housing estates all seem to look the same. However what's new about that? Just look at the suburbs of any major city and I have to think our ancestors said exactly the same thing. Built in the early 1900's, streets and streets of identical houses. Today we say they have "character"compared with modern builds But what did our ancestors think of  them  I wonder?  Very likely the same as we think of the stuff being built now. We bought a new build on a very small development 12 years ago. So  do I miss the character of an older property? of course,  but do I miss the big heating bills and on-going maintenance? Absolutely not -  we now have more dosh and time to spend on boating - it's a no brainer!

regards

Carole

[marshman]

Saily - I concur exactly with your comments. We have a housing crisis in this country just because of what you say - new houses are in demand and we have a chronic shortage of them.

Demand has long long outstripped demand and like it or not, Norwich is a fast growing city with lots of jobs and new people moving into the area,- a smaller version of Cambridge.

Of course the NDR is needed for new industry and new houses - it is only a few who cannot see the wood for the trees and wish to deny it. As always the very few vociferous minority outweigh the views of the vast majority and sadly too political, parties like the Greens. I agree too brownfield sites should be used, but everytime a brownfield site is proposed, someone somewhere gets up and shouts about dogwalkers or that it is a precious area of beauty. Trowse Eye comes to mind!!

We cannot have it both ways i am afraid

[TheQ]

18 hours ago, Labrador said:

Sorry, but this is a VERY emotive subject for those of us directly affected. When you find your rural views will disappear under massive housing development your tend to bite at every opportunity. This housing will only happen as a result of the NDR, all the land that will be built on was purchased by speculators nearly as long ago as some sort of northern bypass was first muted.

My rural views won't disappear under a housing development, they might disappear under the nNorth Sea Though.

[TheQ]

I see someone started a similar thread in "another place"  it too descended into a pointless discussion whether or how the  road should be built when it's too late.

 As I stated there  road signs have now been up some time and no sign of any work, this will cause people to ignore them and will cause accidents ... 

[Hylander]

12 minutes ago, TheQ said:

I see someone started a similar thread in "another place"  it too descended into a pointless discussion whether or how the  road should be built when it's too late.

 As I stated there  road signs have now been up some time and no sign of any work, this will cause people to ignore them and will cause accidents ... 

I have just read this post on the NBF why do we call it 'another place'    I call NBN , what it is NBN and NBF what it is.   If this new road is anything like the Postwick fiasco which we 'toured' last week it will be a nightmare.

[MauriceMynah]

I think I rather started the "Other place" reference a while back. It wasn't meant to be anything snotty or childish, but a reference to  the way the houses of Lords and Commons refer to each other. I rather enjoyed doing it here and it sort of seems to have caught on.

 

[Hylander]

Well enough said if that lot of morons in the H of P talk like that.     It doesn't at all sound like you MM far from it but that lot in the H of P , yes they are childish at the best of times.   

 

 

[TheQ]

I've used Another place on Both forums, It is not meant to be derogatory in any way, there are several other different subject forum pairs I belong to and use another place there as well

[Soundings]

Wroxham is already ruined and to be honest Hoveton is not far behind - this will all be horrendous. Just look at the building going in from Wroxham to Blue Boar, it will all become just a Norwich suburb. When you add to that all the other stuff like 1200 houses in Stalham (with perhaps more I am told) and Martham fighting development it all looks scary. I am certainly with Labrador on all his but regrettably feel the days of sleepy Norfolk and the haven called the Broads is nearing the end game.

We live at the back end of Potter way down past the church. It was a lovely rural location, with wonderful views. It still is but 6 years ago the by-pass was not really evident whilst now it very noticeable as the traffic levels are growing. It is an unfortunate but inevitable by-product.

[SteveO]

1 hour ago, Jonzo said:

I've always taken it as a light-hearted reference to the lingo used by our bicameral legislature. I don't feel it's derogatory and am happy for it to be in use here...

I'd heard that "call me Dave" had a thing about pigs, but didn't realise he was "bi" as well.

Steve

 

[MauriceMynah]

I think "The other place" dates back to the early 1700s or late 1600s. Not one anyone can level at a living politician

[TheQ]

The road works have gone mad, Just up from the mini roundabouts in Hoveton are signs saying there will be roads works there for "footpath reconstruction", with the drainage works at the A149 / A1151 Junction just short of Wayford bridge, the NDR, and 3 other sets before I get to work this is getting to be very annoying. at one point I'm sat alongside roadworks at traffic lights for the next set of road works.

[TheQ]

Missed one, there now traffic lights as you have crossed the railway bridge into Wroxham, they are three way, I think it's for a new entrance to that new housing estate, on the road to "Woodfords"

[Guest]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

Missed one, there now traffic lights as you have crossed the railway bridge into Wroxham, they are three way, I think it's for a new entrance to that new housing estate, on the road to "Woodfords"

Yes, I got caught in that one yesterday.

It took half an hour to get over those lights and onwards to Norwich, queuing all the way from outside Roys, before the river bridge.

Yes, it was for the new entrance to the new housing estate.

You missed two others as well, the Avenue was shut as well, preventing anyone from nipping through there to get through to Salhouse that way.

Then there was another set of lights at Rackheath, near "the sole and heel" pub.

[Labrador]

Missed two more Strowager, a set on the corner of Station Road  Salhouse and another set half way between Station Road and the Salhouse roundabout. Must be all this mild weather, they are breeding early!

[LizG]

It's not just in  Norfolk, its everywhere. Ware is heaving with roadworks, temp lights, roads closed even worse on A10 with permanent lane closures..... It's nearly spring and the breeding season of course. Liz

[BroadScot]

You are not alone folks, my town is wall to wall roadworks with roads closed. It happens every time we have The Open Golf Championship here. Still, it does mean that ALL the potholes are being repaired, at last!

 Iain

[TheQ]

It's a pity the governments plan to fine councils for putting in road works signs and then not doing any work isn't in place. They'd not have put them up so early, 11 ish junctions +£5000 per day fine, for about the 5 days they've been up so far, that would be about £275,000 pounds it would cost us so far.

[Soundings]

It is said Norwich is growing with plenty of jobs and therefore houses are needed. Is that really true? I have spoken to several people of late who reckon finding employment around Norwich remains very difficult. Add to that the small new development here in Potter which is almost exclusively retired people and I do question the work situation. I do however agree we may need housing for local people but the local development suggests it is not necessarily locals who buy them.

I really do wonder how much of this build, build, build is down to local councils finding income streams to replace lost Govt funding. Councils always speak of growth (continuous growth at that), new business, attracting people to the area. Why? There is a reference in this thread to global warming and which questions why we have done so little (I agree), but will not uncontrolled growth due to the never ending quest for money, influence and power be equally as devastating? An entire rural area concreted over and once it has gone it is gone. Then, where will the next "growth spurt" be located - well I suppose we are ok until Norwich meets Yarmouth!

And has been said elsewhere, building in not restricted to the land inside the new road. They are building out at Wroxham, Hoveton, Stalham, Caister, Martham, Brundal, Bloefield  along, no doubt, with many other places. Infrastructure projects are also good for Govt employment and productivity numbers. Are we building our way out of a recession? To add salt to the wounds, I am sure we have all read that the A11 is now going to be some sort of high tech corridor. Another bit outside the confines of the new road that will undoubtably decimate some lovely countryside - that is not to mention theplanne and approved growth at Thetford.

I have been "blue" all my life but am beginning to have doubts. Our planning controls have gone awry and are to my mind out of control. Which is exactly what our dear PM, Dave, wanted. Granted the old way had its problems but the pendulum has swung too far, I do not like the presumption that planning will be approved. Sorry for the rant

[TheQ]

The problem with employment is:

Companies can't find staff because they are unwilling / unable to pay enough Money.

 Prospective employees can't find a job because they can't afford the money being offered.

[Soundings]

8 minutes ago, TheQ said:

The problem with employment is:

Companies can't find staff because they are unwilling / unable to pay enough Money.

 Prospective employees can't find a job because they can't afford the money being offered.

Or it could be some  people have an inflated opinion of what they are worth (probably a bit of each). At the end of the day though a company can only pay what it can afford - if it goes beyond that the receiver is a likely visitor and that scenario helps no one.

[marshman]

Whilst I have no reason to doubt your comments, official statistics show unemployment in this area as one of the lowest in the country.

And whether you agree or not, we have a housing crisis in this country - house prices too high caused by insufficient stock available and in an area where wages are low, no housing to fit the needs of these lower paid individuals. As a result they are forced to rent causing rents to move ever higher. A vicious circle!!

There is ample room in Norfolk for new houses - i live here so what right do i have to turn others away and pretend its full?? It will all stop as soon as growth slows, as it will, and then people will stop buying houses again! And so the cyclical nature of house builing will continue!!

[Soundings]

We all have our opinions Marshman and you and I won't agree own this one. If we really need the housing, why are there three perfectly reasonable houses close by that have not sold (there are other instances also). You make the point re price, but do you really believe this are going to drop. If house prices drop builders will stop building as the income stream will not be sufficient - and especially so as for every estate that is built it seems the builders have to provide the infrastructure the council cannot afford. And as someone pointed out elsewhere - new pads do seem to sell so clearly they are not completely unaffordable. The little estate in Potter could hardly be said to have been cheap and that sold out quick enough.

Norfolk unemployment might be low but the quality of the jobs is not necessarily high and as has rightly been pointed out nor are the wages. In any event I am not sure that employment being low is a measure of job availability.

Don't get me wrong I am all for providing housing for the locals, what I am against is wholesale building that is driven as much (probably more) by political ambition as it is by necessity. And building that is not in keeping with the area and has absolutely no "sole". You may love estates full of wooden boxes, Marshman, but I most certainly do not. My take is we are building the slums of tomorrow and as a Londoner I do know what they were like (although I was fortunate enough not to have to live on one).

There clearly has to be a balance but we have not found it and we need to before it is too late. You are right regrading the rental market and it is that that needs working on, for those who cannot afford to buy - well they need another workable and affordable solution so they do not have to buy what they cannot afford. On that point and referring to the new houses here - as I understand it the council waived the requirement for a proportion of the houses to be "affordable" (whatever that really means) so as to get the construction work started sooner. 

[Labrador]

7 minutes ago, Soundings said:

We all have our opinions Marshman and you and I won't agree own this one. If we really need the housing, why are there three perfectly reasonable houses close by that have not sold (there are other instances also). You make the point re price, but do you really believe this are going to drop. If house prices drop builders will stop building as the income stream will not be sufficient - and especially so as for every estate that is built it seems the builders have to provide the infrastructure the council cannot afford. And as someone pointed out elsewhere - new pads do seem to sell so clearly they are not completely unaffordable. The little estate in Potter could hardly be said to have been cheap and that sold out quick enough.

Norfolk unemployment might be low but the quality of the jobs is not necessarily high and as has rightly been pointed out nor are the wages. In any event I am not sure that employment being low is a measure of job availability.

Don't get me wrong I am all for providing housing for the locals, what I am against is wholesale building that is driven as much (probably more) by political ambition as it is by necessity. And building that is not in keeping with the area and has absolutely no "sole". You may love estates full of wooden boxes, Marshman, but I most certainly do not. My take is we are building the slums of tomorrow and as a Londoner I do know what they were like (although I was fortunate enough not to have to live on one).

There clearly has to be a balance but we have not found it and we need to before it is too late. You are right regrading the rental market and it is that that needs working on, for those who cannot afford to buy - well they need another workable and affordable solution so they do not have to buy what they cannot afford. On that point and referring to the new houses here - as I understand it the council waived the requirement for a proportion of the houses to be "affordable" (whatever that really means) so as to get the construction work started sooner. 

I certainly agree with most of what you say, especially the part about political ambition, the same ambition that has pushed the NDR through irrespective of cost or impact.

[Soundings]

Labrador, I am not completely up to date re the NDR route, but will it impact on Wroxham? I seem to recall you having said your view will be blighted.