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TheQ

The Northern Distributer Road AKA Norwich Northern Bypass

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Why should have the van been indicating for going straight on?

how does one indicate one’s intentions to proceed straight on?  - easy answer - by not indicating 

Griff

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You indicate to turn out of a roundabout not to go round it you can only go one way I have watched people indicate three times each time different depending on which way the bend of the roudabout is going 

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in fairness from the position of the car, he could not have seen the van indicating left anyway, so should have made an assumption that it was going onward rather than turning left.

I have had one other instance of a vehicle carving me up in this way on a roundabout, but in that case he clearly pulled to the central lane of the 3 lane roundabout to overtake 3 cars behind me and myself then tried to exit left across the two lanes between him and his exit, I was in the centre lane preparing for a left exit onto a two lane slip road at the next exit, he not only nearly got hit by me (i had been watching him), but also by the car on my left, also proceeding around the roundabout to the next exit.

the standard of motoring and any consideration towards other drivers is dropping I believe.

in the last week alone I have seen several aftermaths of accidents where cars have been taken out as they cut across the front of lorries at the last minute to get off slip roads (mind you that is normal on the M25), either the sat navs are giving the turn instructions too late or people are just idiots.

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3 hours ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Two cars infront of the van take the exit however it doesn`t, I`m not going to swot up on the highway code but to me the van should of been indicating and the car shouldn`t have been in that lane, as already said see this kind of driving all the time.

Section 186
This section of the Highway Code explains the signals and positions required to exit a roundabout safely. Follow the rules and you will find maneuvering roundabouts to be much less stressful.

When taking the first exit (unless signs and markings indicate otherwise):

Signal left and approach the exit in the left hand lane

Keep to the left on the roundabout and signal left to leave


When taking an exit to the right or going full circle (unless signs or markings indicate otherwise):

Signal right and approach the exit in the right hand lane

Keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to reach your exit

Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you intend to take


When taking any intermediate exit (unless signs or markings indicate otherwise):

Select the appropriate lane on approach to the roundabout

Stay in the lane until you need to alter your lane to exit

Signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want to take

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clearly when you mix the blue arrows with the green arrows and reverse the green arrows direction of travel, people have a problem with it

crash.jpg

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Then of course there is the NDR version

NDR.jpg

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We only use a small section from Postwick to either the Salhouse or Wroxham turn roundabout because it is jolly convenient but I hate the road with a passion. The roundabouts are far to low therefore do not show up until you are very close especially when bad weather limits visibility and the diameter is far too small. If you are in the outside lane it is virtually a 90 deg turn to stay in your lane, add this to the relatively narrow lanes  it makes it very difficult for lorries to stay in their own lane without drifting over, this has happened to us on more than one occasion but since I drive like a granddad (cause I am) and do not look for openings to 'squeeze through' as seems to be the norm now so we have not actually been hit so far. 

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18 minutes ago, StillCruising said:

The roundabouts are far to low therefore do not show up until you are very close

That's an interesting comment. Do you drive an SUV / MPV-type vehicle where you sit quite high?

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I am afraid the biggest issue with the NDR is quite a common one these days ie lack of common sense and ability to anticipate.

Fred

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8 hours ago, grendel said:

either the sat navs are giving the turn instructions too late or people are just idiots.

Nail hit firmly on the head right there. 

Trouble is I think we all take it in turns to be 'the idiot' at some time or another.....

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Trouble is I think we all take it in turns to be 'the idiot' at some time or another.....

Fair comment.

When do we know when it is 'Our' turn then?

Being a member of the 'Biker' community, we have a huge unfair advantage.

As Bikers and having the ambition to stay alive and uninjured we have developed the 'Spidey sense' - that is the ability to read the road and traffic well in advance of those that drive in tin boxes and be hugely more spacialy  aware of other road users around us.  The advantage of this is that we take that ability into driving our own tin boxes.  That gives us an unfair advantage - Some would call it conmen sense

Griff

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Just now, BroadAmbition said:

As Bikers and having the ambition to stay alive and uninjured we have developed the 'Spidey sense' - that is the ability to read the road and traffic well in advance of those that drive in tin boxes and be hugely more spacialy  aware of other road users around us.  The advantage of this is that we take that ability into driving our own tin boxes.  That gives us an unfair advantage - Some would call it conmen sense

Griff

My father always reckoned that a sharp metal spike in the centre of the steering wheel would encourage car drivers to pay attention to their surroundings...

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11 hours ago, WherryNice said:

Trouble is I think we all take it in turns to be 'the idiot' at some time or another....

 

9 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

When do we know when it is 'Our' turn then?

Me! Me! Me!... My turn. My turn. It's my turn now... Me! Me! Me!

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now thats just being greedy MM its always your turn, and when its not, Timbo seems to hog a lot of the rest of the turns.

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20 hours ago, grendel said:

 , either the sat navs are giving the turn instructions too late or people are just idiots.

I think people are just idiots.

I remember a good few years ago i was travelling anti clockwise around the southern loop of the M25, i was in the 3rd lane out of 4 and going past the slip road for the M23 to Gatwick etc.  A car came past me in the outside lane like i was standing still, cut across all 3 lanes, and actually drove across the beginning of the verge at the END of the slip road where it started to go uphill, then had turn a very sharp right to stay in the sliproad`s  carraigeway, and on 2 wheels as well.   If i had`nt seen this, and someone told me about it, i would have thought they would have been wildly exagerating the facts, but no, that is EXACTLY what happened.  Mind you, the twatt WAS driving an Audi estate, and you know what they say about a lot of Audi drivers?.

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16 hours ago, FairTmiddlin said:

Possibly this is the clearest way of explaining

the-highway-code-rule-185.jpg

That`s exactly how i was taught to drive on roundabouts. For first exit, indicate left when entering on the inside lane of the approaching carraigeway and take the first exit, for second exit, stay in inside lane (outside when ON the roundabout), and indicate left when passing the first exit, then the 3rd or more exit, enter in the OUTSIDE lane of the approaching carriageway indicating right, then when you pass the 2nd exit (or the one before your required exit) while on the inside lane of the roundabout, indicate left while pulling over to the outside lane (left) and turn left at the junction, which is exactly what is shown in the picture.  I hope i`ve described that the way i mean it?. 

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9 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

think people are just idiots.

true

sat in morrisons car park yesterday, woman driving out had phone to her ear, gave her a blast of horn and pointed at phone, she stopped looked and drove off with phone again straight over a kerb, stupid part, brand new fiat 500 which comes with hands free fitted

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Absolutely correct i would like to add in the absence of road markings to the contrary, a roundabout near here now has road markings that indicate keeping in right hand lane to turn right and to go straight on, but still some stay in left hand lane to go straight on perhaps specsavers or do drivers not look about them when driving and concentrate on what they are doing, perhaps this is why boats hit low bridges. John

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On a dual carriageway both lanes can go straight across the roundabout its only a problem if the nearside side try`s to go right or the offside lane decides to go left, if there is a problem its with the lane markings giving a false impression years ago when there was no lane markings nobody seemed to have a problem.

Fred

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The problem with these roundabouts (NDR) is they have been designed by people using logic and rules, in the everyday these things tend to go out the window.

Most roundabouts follow the same design and 'feel' then there are larger multi-lane ones which tend to have road markings to aid navigating them and which lane to be in and so on, but on the NDR the design of the roundabouts is different.

Firstly they look different. Some have countdown markers and 'Reduce Speed Now' signs warning of a Roundabout, yet others do not. Some have lit signs, and some do not. Some have 'first exit bypass lanes' and some do not... It means from one to the next there is not a flow, you get used to it with time, but not everyone is going to be a local and remember which one has what.

The other issue is they are often three lanes, and those are actual lanes - but the number of times I see a car enter in the second lane and exit in the first or come round in lane three and while on the roundabout itself move over to lane two. What I have also found and is now normal - be it NDR or A47 etc, is if a sign gets hit that is that. It will not be replaced. Just off the A47 for Blofield, 3 signs have gone. NDR has various ones now missing on or close to the roundabouts, also the road markings have begun to wear thin - but of course they won't be re-painted until their time comes regardless of what state they are in, and this all goes to cause its own issues.

I had to go over and over and over the NDR roundabouts in my driving lessons and learn an 'ultra safe' method to effectively postilion and indicate earlier to make anyone (like that Van in the video) clearly see my intentions to try and mitigate any surprise. I always indicate when leaving a roundabout to just make it easier for those behind or indeed those waiting to the join what I am about to do but the NDR is a funny old road where people do seem to get a bit confused. I have too but then just play safe either exit and get off and worry about returning around later and coming back, or if miss the turn carry on all the way round again rather than take a chance.

That said, I came down to London and had to get round the M25 and M4. Then later A4 and the Westway - still loads better up in Norfolk but I do like the London style of driving, it is just the right side of chaos and as long as you play to the same rhythm it goes well, dither for a moment and it rapidly collapses.

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On 14/06/2019 at 16:31, StillCruising said:

We only use a small section from Postwick to either the Salhouse or Wroxham turn roundabout because it is jolly convenient but I hate the road with a passion. The roundabouts are far to low therefore do not show up until you are very close especially when bad weather limits visibility and the diameter is far too small. If you are in the outside lane it is virtually a 90 deg turn to stay in your lane, add this to the relatively narrow lanes  it makes it very difficult for lorries to stay in their own lane without drifting over, this has happened to us on more than one occasion but since I drive like a granddad (cause I am) and do not look for openings to 'squeeze through' as seems to be the norm now so we have not actually been hit so far. 

I agree with what you say about the roundabouts being low. I also only use a short section from Postwick to the Coltishall Road. But on a couple of occasions I have found myself approaching one of the roundabout, probably Salhouse Road too fast. I do drive a high ground clearance SUV type of car.

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The centre\lane markings alter to warn you.

 

127
A broken white line. This marks the centre of the road. When this line lengthens and the gaps shorten, it means that there is a hazard ahead.

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