The Northern Distributer Road AKA Norwich Northern Bypass

[TheQ]

The NDR / Coltishall road Roundabout has a huge amount of cones around it, as they are replacing the demolished  Signs. The small amount of cones left out when I went home yesterday, weren't in the same position this morning.

 

Also parked in the entrance to the nursery was  a Black Audi..... behind which was a blue flashing light police Car, one copper and one man standing outside, policeman taking details... you're nicked sunshine...

[Paul]

22 hours ago, TheQ said:

Except they're not, the outer lanes are sometimes concave and sometimes convex with some roundabouts a mix of both.

I guess by concave and convex you refer to the camber of the road surface. Such variances are not unique to the NDR, there is a roundabout, a big one with six exits near us where the camber changes so much that if you miss your exit and have to "go around" you can end up feeling seasick before you ever get off it. BUT, such camber changes  should not effect vehicles negotiating the roundabout and a proper speed. There are things that may be could be done. Better advance signage, large "impact" boards, even with flashing lights activated when vehicles approach too quickly would be a good start and perhaps a speed limit on approach and exit as we see on many A roads here where the limit drops to 40 a few hundred yards either side of the roundabout. Ultimately, if one or more if these roundabouts is causing an accident black spot the likely solution will be the introduction of traffic lights. Nothing reduces speed on roundabouts better. 

[Meantime]

Near me there is a T Junction controlled by traffic lights. During the day time when there is a lot of traffic around they operate normally, but after a certain time of day when the traffic is a lot quieter they default to red on all approaches with sensors to detect oncoming traffic. If you approach at the correct speed and ease of the accelerator they will change to green before you get anywhere near to stopping and then you can gently accelerate again and continue on your way. This has multiple effects. Firstly you never have to wait at a red when there is no traffic around, unless you've approached too fast then you will need to come to a stop, but secondly it has slowed the boy racers down along this residential section who would normally speed through at anything up to twice the speed limit if they had a green in their favour.

I note that the same thing happens at Potter old bridge and St Olaves bridge at quiet times of the day. The lights go to red in both directions and change as soon as approaching traffic is sensed. Again easing off and rolling up to the lights means you don't need to come to a complete stop before the lights change in your favour, if there is not competing traffic also sensed coming the other way. Perhaps this approach is needed for all roundabout? At busy times it would regulate flow around the roundabout, at quiet times traffic arriving at the correct speed would get a green before they have to stop. Traffic arriving too fast would end up having to stop briefly till the lights changed.

[TheQ]

53 minutes ago, Paul said:

I guess by concave and convex you refer to the camber of the road surface. Such variances are not unique to the NDR,

NO,

 The outer Kerbing of the roundabout, at some you arrive and turn left in a gentle curve to the left to the next exit, at others you arrive turn left onto the round about, then curve right to go round the about, then turn left to exit at the first exit. Either way you are just taking a 90 degree turn onto another road. The  NDR / Coltishall road roundabout has both of these layouts on the same roundabout.

[Meantime]

10 minutes ago, TheQ said:

NO,

 The outer Kerbing of the roundabout, at some you arrive and turn left in a gentle curve to the left to the next exit, at others you arrive turn left onto the round about, then curve right to go round the about, then turn left to exit at the first exit. Either way you are just taking a 90 degree turn onto another road. The  NDR / Coltishall road roundabout has both of these layouts on the same roundabout.

I assume you mean this one? To be fair the exits are not an equal distance apart as in 90 degrees from each other. However it's kind of irrelevant as it will still have lane marking and it's merely a case of choosing the appropriate speed to be able to keep your wheels within the lane markings and following the lanes!

 

[Paul]

My original point is still valid, they are round, you turn left to get on, be it in a gentle sweep or a tighter turn, you turn right to go around them, and turn left again to get off. It really isn't rocket science. 

Provided, as ECIPA has already said, you use proper lane discipline, correct indication and sensible speed there should be no problem. Issues only arise when drivers are incapable or unwilling to do so. Remember, it is the driver who is dangerous, not the road. I have a pet name for such people, but I see no reason to excersise the forums expletive replacement system more than I have already done. 

 

[Paul]

compare that roundabout with this one on the Leicester Western Bypass. Some exits are virtually straight, others literally hairpins. It is governed by the angle at which the different roads meet. It is our responsibility as drivers to gauge the road ahead and drive in an appropriate manner. Anyone who cannot do that should look at themselves, not look to blame others. 

 

 

[LondonRascal]

All I can say is weekday evening rush hour at night on the Hanger Lane Gyratory and knowing a few miles later with be the Chiswick Roundabout to deal with before heading up onto the M4 when you've passed your test 3 weeks prior hones your sense of awareness. Then to keep doing it and get used to what people do verses 'the rules' or what they should be doing has stood me in great stead.

For sure different parts of the country seem to have different styles of driving, but what I have also seen is how so many drivers who do the same routes time and again act on auto pilot. They say most accidents tend to happen to people on familiar roads close to home. If I am going to Norwich I will rarely take the same route in twice and always go in one way and back another. Today I took the SLK in to have the air-con pressure checked, as suspected it was low - it is now re gassed and like a freezer.

I went in on the A47 in the morning rush hour, came back 'the back route' avoiding the A47 and instead through Thorpe. Just to mix it up, and then decided to just follow a myriad of little country lanes despite it pouring with rain for the fun of it. I also randomly found out the old A47 used to run through the middle of Blofield, before the bypass came along in I thin 1982. I found this photo of the bypass just before it opened and not the old course slipped the Brundall roundabout - there is a deeply overgrown 'lane' that exists to the left of the bypass after the Roundabout, awaiting exploration once the rain has gone as this must still be the old course of the road. Before the bypass there was no roundabout, Brundall was simply a left hand turn off when heading to Norwich from Great Yarmouth - anyway I am fascinated by these things and when new roads come I often like to travel the 'old route' where possible, like the bypass on the A47 that I remember being opened, it takes traffic just outside Kings Lynn to Wisbech bypassing the smaller villages along the way like Tilney All Saints.

Blofield Bypass (A47) - Brundall Roundabout lower right. Notice the old path of the A47 - still there through Blofield, now de-trunked and a local road. It continued toward Norwich bypassing the newly built roundabout. I am sure this remains as a very overgrown track of sorts. Something to explore.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Robin,

Out of the Marina up Station Road, turn right and left at the mini roundabout this is a better route to Blowfield, I can be in Wroxham in about 20 minutes.

Regards

Alan

[grendel]

Robin, it looks like the old road is still there, even with a nice hard standing parking area at the end.

[TheQ]

with any luck thats all going to change again soon..

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.com/he/a47-blofield-to-north-burlingham-dualling/

[grendel]

is that further along after it drops to single carriageway

[marshman]

Yes - thats right.

It is going to be dualled but more importantly, they are going to redo the Cantley junction with a flyover and cloverleaf if I remember correctly, to avoid the contract sugar beet lorries pulling across 4 lanes in front of you!!!!! That will be a big bonus!

Its been through all the consultations so I guess its out to tender and due to start sometime next year hopefully

[TheQ]

The Coltishall Ndr roundabout is still coned off, having replaced the demolished signs they are gardening with a digger... Roughing up the roundabout itself and removing all signs of tracks.. I suspect the roughness to to catch further cars trying to take a short cut across the middle.

[TheQ]

Cones removed, some of  surface of Centre covered in some grey substance,  Im guessing seeds / fertilizer. 

Sunday 30th road closures all over the place whether that includes NDR I'm not sure. Why? 

See here https://gbcyclingfestival.co.uk/Road_Closures_Norfolk.php

[BrundallNavy]

Bad accident on the Wroxham road roundabout this afternoon exit into Norwich blocked off 4 police cars and an ambulance in attendance. One car and a motorcycle looked to be involved.

[Jbx5]

Air ambulance was on the island as well. Something will have to change here.

John

 

 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

On 18/06/2019 at 11:06, Paul said:

My original point is still valid, they are round, you turn left to get on, be it in a gentle sweep or a tighter turn, you turn right to go around them, and turn left again to get off. It really isn't rocket science. 

Provided, as ECIPA has already said, you use proper lane discipline, correct indication and sensible speed there should be no problem. Issues only arise when drivers are incapable or unwilling to do so. Remember, it is the driver who is dangerous, not the road. I have a pet name for such people, but I see no reason to excersise the forums expletive replacement system more than I have already done. 

 

Very well put Paul, and as you say it is`nt rocket science, but you forgot to say about always giving way to traffic from the right. However, many years ago, on the A20 at Farningham in Kent,  if approaching the roundabout from the west, going down hill from what is now J3 on the M25, the traffic from the right had to give way to the traffic coming from the left, as it was a main arterial road, whereas the roundabout was treated as a side road. This caused numerous accidents for people that did`nt know the road, so they changed traffic priority so it went to the normal give way to traffic from the right. This then caused many accidents for those that knew the original lane priority, but DID`NT know it had changed.  

[marshman]

You mean people driving slower and sensibly and more appropriately for the road?

Come on folks, they are only roundabouts on a dual carriageway - ok thats pretty unusual for Norfolk but you only have to use your eyes and that stuff between your ears - its not very hard!! Or perhaps everyone who has an accident should be forced to take their test again????

[OldBerkshireBoy]

There is a roundabout below the M40 where traffic flows both clockwise & anti-clockwise!

[Meantime]

I've driven quite a few times in Europe and the USA. On each occasion the junctions have been totally alien to me, the lane markings and junction layouts and even give way priority totally different. Factor in driving on the other side of the road and sitting on the other side of the car, or even worse taking a UK car to Europe where your not in the best position for over taking etc. Yet so far I've managed not to demolish any of the road furniture or hit any other cars! Could it be because I try and drive at the appropriate speed, in the right lane and follow the lane markings and road signs where possible? I also do not drink and drive or drive if tired, all of which really helps.

[marshman]

Correct - well said that man!!  But this is Norfolk!!

[oldgregg]

We got caught out by the road closure and figured it must have been a bad one.

Coming back at just before midnight I did notice that the roundabouts have triangular hazard signs, a big roundabout sign, countdown makers and then signage on the actual roundabout. 

I'm not sure that I really want people who can miss those to have a driving licence. Yes they're slightly offset but how much more warning do people want?

I do think the only way the problem is going to be solved, though, is to stick average speed cameras on the whole length.

[Paul]

10 hours ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said:

you forgot to say about always giving way to traffic from the right

Now there lies a sorry tale. After working on the continent for nine and a half months, doing everything back to front I, to my eternal embarrassment on returning home gave a loud blast of my horn at a van driver who cut me up .... from the right. At least I had the good grace when a few yards later I pulled alongside at traffic lights to wind down the window and apologise, with a brief explanation. Thankfully no harm was done and the driver found it quite funny. 

 

 

[Paul]

9 minutes ago, oldgregg said:

I do think the only way the problem is going to be solved, though, is to stick average speed cameras on the whole length.

The problem with average speed cameras is that they do nothing to make junctions safer. You can go around the roundabout on two wheels (in a car that is, for all our biker friends) and still not exceed the average speed. The only way to force traffic to slow, and remove so much interaction between vehicles is traffic lights with camera enforcement. If accidents keep happening then that will happen. Sadly,policy usually dictates that the powers that be wait until there have been so many fatalities.