The Northern Distributer Road AKA Norwich Northern Bypass

[oldgregg]

They don't make the junctions safer per se, but if you've travelled the NDR frequently you'll have seen that the average speed is quite high.

Part of the problem is that if people are doing 90 and then anchor on they're not going to have the stopping room and while ESP is good it's not magic. If they arrive at 70 then anchor on, they're going quite a bit slower and less likely to swap ends.

Traffic lights would not be a bad idea at the Rocky road roundabout, for sure, and probably others.

[RumPunch]

What they should have done, and still could, is have a proper slip road on some of the junctions. Take the Wroxham road roundabout or the Rackheath one from Norwich direction. Every afternoon there are long tailbacks - up to 20 mins it's taken me. ( When they remodelled the junctions, it got worse )  If people going left at both these junctions could 'slip' onto the road ( as happens at the airport ) it would reduce congestion on the roundabout which would hopefully reduce incidents and have people joining at appropriate speed / not 'leaping out'

[oldgregg]

Well.... yeah building the road properly in the first place would have been preferable

I don't understand why the Wroxham road one isn't as yes I've frequently seen it queued back towards Sprowston Manor. Being slightly selfish, it also takes longer to get from the city to the Broads than it used to.

Cost would be the reason given, but it'll cost more in the long run having to put it right in 5 years.

[TheQ]

The Wroxham rd / NDR roundabout has been surrounded by cones,  the access from Norwich or Wroxham has been reduced.  I suspect they are going to replace the damaged signs and repair the ground as they did on the coltishall roundabout. 

[ChrisB]

By 2025 the country will be so far in the " Brown and sticky" bankrupt nowt will get built or finished.

[Hylander]

Ruddy trouble makers (Extinct whatever) they want to get themselves a job or something useful to do.     We need improved to our road system.

[TheQ]

The NDR is closed between Spixworth and Horsham st Faith,  due to concerns about a woman's safety on a bridge.

I assume that's the Buxton road going over the NDR.

I also assume that she's  Threatening Suicide..

[Vaughan]

On 06/07/2019 at 12:34, Hylander said:

Ruddy trouble makers (Extinct whatever) they want to get themselves a job or something useful to do. 

Leaving aside my personal opinion of the NDR - which is that it should never have been built at all - what has this got to do with Extinction Rebellion?

They just show themselves for what they really are - "Rent - a - Crowd".

[trambo]

On 06/07/2019 at 12:34, Hylander said:

Ruddy trouble makers (Extinct whatever) they want to get themselves a job or something useful to do.    

 

56 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Leaving aside my personal opinion of the NDR - which is that it should never have been built at all - what has this got to do with Extinction Rebellion?

They just show themselves for what they really are - "Rent - a - Crowd".

 Agree the NDR needs some sort of completion and also it should never have been built in the first place but making glibe remarks about Extinction Rebellion without expanding  your arguments does not convince. At least they are trying to do something about what they perceive to be a serious problem whilst we or at least I sit on the settee or at the computer desk and just think about it.

Fred

[Vaughan]

31 minutes ago, trambo said:

making glibe remarks about Extinction Rebellion without expanding  your arguments does not convince.

I compare them with the "gilet jaune" movement in France, who started out with a reasonable grudge against the government but just descended into causing trouble for the sake of it. They were effectively leaderless and were soon taken over by a lawless hard core whose sole aim is to create civil disturbance for whatever reason they can think of. Does that ring a bell?

However much I may dislike the NDR I can hardly think it threatens the extinction of our planet. So what has it to do with these people (who I notice also wear yellow vests) and why are they to be allowed to commit a string of public order and obstruction offences with such impunity?

By attaching themselves to the NDR issue in this way they are simply demonstrating their basic wish to cause trouble for whatever reason might seem (to them) appropriate.

[trambo]

Thanks for your reasoning Vaughan and I would agree with a lot of it, especially your thoughts on "gilet jaune" but while reading,  Emmeline Pankhurst, her daughters and that movement, with the resulting reaction of the establishment and media of the day came into mind. 

Fred

[NeilB]

There’s an interesting article on Extinction Rebellion on the BBC - seems they are quite well organised and some do have jobs as they took time off work to protest.   https://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/article/66227e29-405e-44c1-bd6c-5ac33308cca0

I think they have a valid point but I don’t agree with all their tactics.  They should have distanced themselves from Emma Thomson flying thousands of miles on a pollution spewing jet to attend a protest !

The biggest issue with climate change, pollution etc is overpopulation of the planet.  No one is going to do much about that and as I have 3 children I’ve not exactly helped the situation!

[rightsaidfred]

I like a lot of my friends have no time for any of these extremist pressure groups who think they have the right to disrupt the lives of everyone else just to satisfy their own political ends, whatever any ones views are on climate change or anything else it is wrong to not only impose them on and disrupt the lives of others but what is now even worse indoctrinating our children in their schools and through social media and worse the BBC, their very title is designed to spread fear and panic rather that rational discussion.

Fred

[Hockham Admiral]

So very eloquently and well written sentiments, Fred and Vaughan. Hear! Hear!  

[MauriceMynah]

One thing the "extinction" group seems to forget is that electric cars need roads too, and the more efficient the road, the greater the efficiency  of the vehicles on it, be they electric or not.

This tends to make me believe that the extinction group is indeed now just a political 'rent a crowd' rather than what it originally was.

[trambo]

29 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

I like a lot of my friends have no time for any of these extremist pressure groups who think they have the right to disrupt the lives of everyone else just to satisfy their own political ends, whatever any ones views are on climate change or anything else it is wrong to not only impose them on and disrupt the lives of others but what is now even worse indoctrinating our children in their schools and through social media and worse the BBC, their very title is designed to spread fear and panic rather that rational discussion.

Fred

Pressure groups are only extremest if we fundamentally disagree with them from our own political stance and everyone of us has been indoctrinated from birth by our parents, at school, from the media and our own life experiences,  thats what makes us who we are.

 I do believe people have the right to protest even it means disruption but then they must take the consequence of their action within the society they live.

Fred

[trambo]

..............and the quicker that missing link is built the better!

Fred

[rightsaidfred]

2 minutes ago, trambo said:

Pressure groups are only extremest if we fundamentally disagree with them from our own political stance and everyone of us has been indoctrinated from birth by our parents, at school, from the media and our own life experiences,  thats what makes us who we are.

 I do believe people have the right to protest even it means disruption but then they must take the consequence of their action within the society they live.

Fred

Sorry but I have to disagree with this there have been pressure groups I have some sympathy with and sometimes agreement and while they are entitled to express their views it doesn't  give them the right to impose their views on or disrupt others lives.

Fred

[grendel]

31 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

One thing the "extinction" group seems to forget is that electric cars need roads too, and the more efficient the road, the greater the efficiency  of the vehicles on it, be they electric or not.

This tends to make me believe that the extinction group is indeed now just a political 'rent a crowd' rather than what it originally was.

also, that by bypassing the towns one is reducing the pollution by keeping the traffic flowing, nothing more inefficient than a stationary car kicking pollution into the towns and villages

[MauriceMynah]

Fred, I think it was the "Extremist" rather than the "pressure" groups that Trambo was defining.

[trambo]

I suspect Fred that if we were face to face and not using the written word then we would probably agree on most of the argument. I just believe that any political march or demonstration (which always will affect someone and can be galling if you have an opposite view) is a fundamental right but if the persons involved step out of what society expects then they should not be surprised at the consequences.

Fred

[rightsaidfred]

MM I understood that and that was also the target of my comments, unfortunately most pressure groups end up with an extremist element.

Trambo I agree with what you say, I fully accept a protest march is a legitimate means to making a point even when causing a small controlled amount of disruption totally different to what we are discussing here.

Fred 

[YnysMon]

Its all very well for us to criticise pressure groups, but maybe the younger generations feel they have more to lose if the climate change scientists are correct than us older generations. 

[MauriceMynah]

The problem with pressure groups (as I see it) is that they are vulnerable to being taken over by people who are only playing lip service to the original purpose of the group. these take-over people have only one objective, to overturn the democratically elected government, whoever that might be.

It became obvious recently that placards being waved at a march were supplied by and were advertising the "Socialist Worker". Had those placard wavers been serious in their demands they would not be wanting to advertise one political party for fear of alienating the others in support of their calling. This is exactly what has happened. Now these protesters have been labelled as "far leftie long haired layabouts who should all get bloody jobs". This is not likely to enhance the call to reduce drastically the use of "single use plastics".

Nowadays  I don't know if any particular march is in objection to Brexit, support for LGBGT, banning single use plastics or banning Boris! It's looking like the same people marching for all the different causes and thus I cannot take any single one of them seriously. 

[rightsaidfred]

MM Thanks for a very true and eloquent description of what some of us have tried to say less well, I have no objection to anyone making their feelings known in a peaceful and lawful manner regardless of age, ethnicity  or  lifestyle.

However living in London and seeing the disruption and behaviour of these so called protest groups and this last group are just one of many on numerous occasions over several years whose sole intention is to disrupt the lives of as many people and businesses as possible costing the country and individuals millions of pounds and taking the police away from more important duties then I cannot see any way of defending their actions or allowing this behaviour to continue, it is now all to simple via social media  for a few anarchist to brainwash those already indoctrinated by the latest scare mongering from those parts of the general media who have an agenda into adopting these tactics.

Fred