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BA campaigns against engine running


Polly

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36 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hi Steve,

A noisy engine or Cliff, an easy choice, I would settle for the engine, at least it will not keep saying you how many decades it had been in the charts:naughty:

Regards

Alan

Thinking about Cliff and one of his songs at full pelt. ....We're all going on a Summer Holiday  ..... I think would clear Loddon Staithe!:naughty:

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4 hours ago, Polly said:

Jonzo, the BA would probably provide a supply for burgee bundling.

Peter, the title of the thread was a Freudian s:Dlip

The article said that 8pm to 8 am were key times but that running the engine at any time was an offence, (when not under way, Peter!)

I think someone should mention these times to all boatyards with regards to changeover days........

£1000 per boat would work out a bit expensive for servicing engines and charging batteries ready for the next hirer.

 

Jeff

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Earlier today I emailed the Authority for clarification on this. I have had a reply referring me to byelaw 84 which has been mentioned above. I have replied saying that I believe the wording in the Newsletter to be incorrect and misleading although I am in favour of a harder line being taken with regard to inconsiderate boaters and the running of engines between 8pm and 8am in particular. I await further contact.

(I was impressed to receive the BA's reply at almost 9 pm, they must be busy.)

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11 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Vanessan, a number of commercial concerns post all their e-mails in bulk at predetermined, 'premium' dispatch times. Prudent use of our money!

And there was me thinking those guys work late hours! 

I don't think it would hurt for others to question this Newsletter statement, eventually the BA might confirm there is a new byelaw (or will be one) or admit their wording is incorrect.

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Hi all, I can confirm there is not a new byelaw covering noise and fumes etc., we have had quite a few complaints so I believe this may just be the office's way of reminding people that there is a law and it can be enforced, as for mentioning 8pm to 8am, that's just the most annoying time for people to do it, but we all know that.

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So I've read topics like this before but never when I was a member on the particular forum and therefore able to comment. 

I agree that people running engines can be an unwanted disturbance at the moorings. But I would like to ask everyone to consider the following points.

We hired Fair Prince in October 2014 when it was still a fairly new boat. But the yard advised us that we would probably have to run the engine to get the heating on in the mornings. Sure enough we had less than 12 volts on the battery despite a good number of hours cruising the previous day and given the temperature at that time of year we had no option but to run the engine for a while at 7am if we wanted to get up at that time. So it's not always old boats and it's really not always the inconsideration of hirers that leads to engines running early in the morning.

Some of the yards also never give out electric hook up cables. Swancraft never did but as we hired from them in June it wasn't really a problem. Wanting to hire early season this year we asked Richardson's whether they would let us have an electric cable and they replied that they never give them to hirers. I was a little surprised by this. Anyhow Ferry Marina and Faircraft Loynes do let you have the cables so you can use the electric hookup points if you can get moored in the right place ... exactly what we hope to do when we're next afloat and a good reason to hire from those yards.

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Interesting point. I think it depends a lot on how good the yards batteries and charging systems are. We hired from Swancraft for many years in December and never needed to run the engine to start the heating. In many years of winter cruising I've never used shore power. I do begin to wonder in Jeans example is whether Faircraft Loynes systems were really up to the job particularly with such a new boat. 

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1 hour ago, A.J.B. said:

Hi all, I can confirm there is not a new byelaw covering noise and fumes etc., we have had quite a few complaints so I believe this may just be the office's way of reminding people that there is a law and it can be enforced, as for mentioning 8pm to 8am, that's just the most annoying time for people to do it, but we all know that.

Thank you for the update, much appreciated I am sure.

cheersIain

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Thank you for that, Jean. Your comments rather suggest that a large part of the noisy engine problem is down to the yards after all. I rather suspect that the yards know the problem full well yet some almost pigheadedly continue to provide boats that are overly dependent on anti-social auxiliary power.

As for cold mornings, keep your cloths on when you go to bed!

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SwanR

I fully appreciate your comment and situation but that is just a common cop out by the hire fleets for failing to provide adequate batteries for a particular boat, in all my years boating I have never needed to run the engine for heating, having a cable dosn`t guarantee access to a hookup point and I think you will find most hireboats have that facility for  use in their own marinas.

Fred

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Appreciate the comments folks.

I agree that it could well be that the batteries should be better maintained, or whatever you do to a battery. My point is simply that in that situation it's not the fault of the hirer that they need to run the engine. :)

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8 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Appreciate the comments folks.

I agree that it could well be that the batteries should be better maintained, or whatever you do to a battery. My point is simply that in that situation it's not the fault of the hirer that they need to run the engine. :)

Jean, I think that we all appreciate what you are saying. 

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I've made this point before on similar threads. Royal Tudor's engine will occasionally be run on moorings. There is not a notice, byelaw or slugabed that will stop this from occurring. Sun's up? Then I'm up. And I'm up because Uncle Albert is up and needs to be washed, dressed, dressings applied, bed scrubbed, bedding scrubbed. I try to moor away from public moorings but there are times when we need to moor somewhere where I can get to local amenities or aid. Occasionally I will cruise early doors to generate hot water, but this is not always feasible or safe to do. The odd pyjama wearing busy body has attempted to 'put me straight' but they seem to run away quite quickly when confronted with an irate Yellow Belly in plastic pinny and rubber gloves. My offer of a choice to take over my duties or a size 12 8 lace holes up unaccepted as they scurry away to reconsider the benefits of an early night and an early morning.

I'm not being antisocial or inconsiderate, quite the reverse. 

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We have never hired on the Norfolk Broads other than the occasional day boat, we have hired Narrow Boats and cruisers elsewhere and we have never had battery issues, after saying that we always get the yards to remove the microwave, because the space can be better used. We tend on these holidays to cruise between 5 to 8 hours or in the case of a ring route maybe even longer. Most boatyards recommend a minimum of 5 hours travel to charge the batteries.

On Ranworth Breeze batteries we replaced all of our lights with led inserts to reduce our overall load. use converted table lights on low voltage. We do not have a microwave on board, but have a toaster and electric kettle when on shore power. Other than having to go back to the marina to give new owners training or picking up guests we are usually away from the marina all week. We do try get on shore power but if needs be we can go a day or two without (keeping a good watch on the battery indicators).

If we are moored near other people and need to get up early and set of to catch a tide, we tell the people near to us, we  get up, get ready, start the engine and leave, none of this running the engine while doing checks or making breakfast.The best policy is keep any disturbance to a minimum.

We all know what Robin thinks of batteries on good number of the Norfolk Broads boats:naughty:

Regards

Alan

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It occurs to me that people should be made aware that a holiday on a boat is not 'home from home' and therefore expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

As well as sailing, we have a touring caravan, and can manage happily on one  110 amp leisure battery for 5 - 7 days without access to mains hook up or a generator of any type.

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32 minutes ago, Poppy said:

It occurs to me that people should be made aware that a holiday on a boat is not 'home from home' and therefore expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

As well as sailing, we have a touring caravan, and can manage happily on one  110 amp leisure battery for 5 - 7 days without access to mains hook up or a generator of any type.

Got to support that one, Poppy. Not just in regard to holiday boats either. Just how many private boats are homes from home rather than boats? The manufacturers and hire yards pander to these expectations and demands, understandably, but have dug something of a hole for themselves when it comes to a foolproof means of satisfying the demand that they themselves have created!

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Is not 'home from home', my point exactly. As I said earlier, it can be anti social and rude but only at some ungodly hour and I completely understand Timbo's need to run an engine at a mooring, I even like the sound of Boat engines and the smell of diesel as it cruises past, all part of a Broads holiday, for us anyway. It just takes a little bit of respect and to be mindful of others, unfortunately not all people are like that, both in hirers and owners camp in my experience. As Alan (RB) has already mentioned, we also cruise early and let people know the night before, although we very rarely moor on public moorings for the night anyway. In a perfect world we would all obey the rules but we don't,  a Broads holiday is as near as perfect as you're gonna  get, if someone upsets you for whatever reason and they are totally in the wrong, phone the Rangers, above all else never, ever let one or two thoughtless Boaters ruin your holiday

Spring is on the way, cheers to safe and happy cruisin

Grace

p.s Today's Sermon is over lol

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We have been talking on another thread, about batteries and solar panels. The panels, by the way, would make no difference to this situation.

An 8 berth hire boat such as the Crown Classique, that we have in France, with 2 fridges, electric toilets, pressure water system, macerator pump, Webasto heating and 2 vent fans, will use about 190 amp/hours a day. Yes, it is that much. So you need a minimum of 4 domestic batteries, charged by a 90 amp alternator, on the principle that a battery can only be used to half its capacity in amp/hours.

If you have a portable TV that can use another 50 amp/hours so another battery in the bank.

A microwave (on AC) will need an inverter and two batteries of its own.

All the laptops, iPads, computer games and things all need charging, so even more amp/hours. (charge these when cruising).

So you are now talking about 2 alternators and a complex splitting system across 3 banks of batteries. But in science, nothing is free. If you want energy, you will pay for it. A 90 amp alternator will take around 4 and a half horsepower, so two of them on a Nanni will be taking almost 10HP off what is only a 40HP engine. Less power to the shaft and more cost in diesel consumption. (or a larger engine).

A modern hire boat must run for at least 4 hours a day and preferably 6, which actually puts a constraint on your cruising habits. If you want to spend the day on a mud weight and play in the sailing dingy - you can't. Not without running the engine. Unless you find a mooring with shore power points, but you are telling me that hire yards, don't provide cables. I can safely say that all hire boats have them in France.

So those of you who are saying keep it simple, when boating, are dead right!

Oh, and air conditioning? Don't go there. You really don't want to know about that!

 

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37 minutes ago, Poppy said:

It occurs to me that people should be made aware that a holiday on a boat is not 'home from home' and therefore expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

As well as sailing, we have a touring caravan, and can manage happily on one  110 amp leisure battery for 5 - 7 days without access to mains hook up or a generator of any type.

Everyone to there own I guess but for me ..... on holiday ...... I like to continue in the lifestyle I enjoy for the rest of the year.

My ideal boat would have a roof mounted hot tub in which I would languish with ?? (anybody really) whilst supping pomaign and munching cheese & onion crisps. In front of the hot tub would be a large screen tv (56 inch min.) enabling me to watch the in-depth debates on the One Show (I find Alex's wit and razor sharp brain particulary enthralling), an ideal warm up to the main event .... Michael Portillo's adventures on a train using a musty old book written by some old dinosour from the dark ages.

Then in time honoured "Zebidee" fashion it's time for bed.

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12 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Got to support that one, Poppy. Not just in regard to holiday boats either. Just how many private boats are homes from home rather than boats? The manufacturers and hire yards pander to these expectations and demands, understandably, but have dug something of a hole for themselves when it comes to a foolproof means of satisfying the demand that they themselves have created!

Nowhere did I say that my comment was directed solely to hirers JM  I agree entirely!

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