BA campaigns against engine running

[Gracie]

Hmmmm, a hot tub, where do you live, Smelly? I'm on my way..... Prosecco and Prawn Cocktail, much posher, I find

Grace

[Matt]

I imagine there not many places in the UK where you can spend upwards of £2k on a weeks self catering holiday and not have hot water for a shower in the morning

[smellyloo]

1 minute ago, Gracie said:

Hmmmm, a hot tub, where do you live, Smelly? I'm on my way..... Prosecco and Prawn Cocktail, much posher, I find

Grace

Hi Grace

No idea what prosecco is and the thought of drinking prawns seems somehow wrong to me.

However if you would like to join me I might splash out on a bottle of Blue Nun and chicken vesta curry for afters whilst watching gogglebox on my gogglebox.

Insert posh smily here, sadly those available are far to common!!

[BroadScot]

In the days of the Wilds Fleet,in the 70's I often saw their van out changing batteries. Until there is a battery made or another solution outwith shore power, there will IMHO be problems with hire craft. 

The reason I say this is, many folks who takeover a boat, firstly NEVER listen, or rarely do, to what the boatyard tells them at takeover, they are too keen to get away on HOLIDAY! 

I have spoken to hirers in the past, after they have eventually moored up, you know the ones, we have all been there, making a pigs ear of your first attempt! They had know idea it was going to be SO DIFFERENT from being at HOME!

I am a arthritic person so heat is a must for me. So if the heating wont fire without running the engine, I will do what we have always done, light the oven on the boat, or light the rings on top of the cooker. Yes, it causes condensation, but a small price to pay for a bit of heat.

I hope I won't be reading of the first £1000 fine to the then poor soul who has to pay said fine!

Iain

[riyadhcrew]

Having lived in warmer climates non-stop for the last 20 years, I tend to feel the cold more than most. Whilst I will sit outside or on the flybridge with a load of clothes on, I like to get comfortable when inside, so heating is normally required at night before bed and in the morning.

We are fortunate that the boats we have hired recently have not needed the engine running for the heating, but if it did, I would consider running it, at least for a little while.

[Poppy]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

I imagine there not many places in the UK where you can spend upwards of £2k on a weeks self catering holiday and not have hot water for a shower in the morning

You can have plenty of hot water for any purpose. Your engine will be providing it when underway - just take turns at showering, helming etc.....

[BroadScot]

8 minutes ago, Poppy said:

You can have plenty of hot water for any purpose. Your engine will be providing it when underway - just take turns at showering, helming etc.....

Oh how we loved the instant hot water on the Astons Boats!

Iain

[Vaughan]

Iain, 

As a CORGI gas fitter (or was) I counsel you not to use the cooker in your boat as a space heater. Modern boats are built to CE regulations of fixed ventilation in living spaces but all the same, the risk is too great.

One cubic metre of Butane gas burned on a cooker will release two and a half litres of water into the atmosphere around it, and the rest consists of CO2. If the burner flame is burning with a white tip, then it is also releasing CO, which is poisonous.

A possible solution is to fit a Trumatic gas room heater, which also has a fan for blown warm air ducting. This is a "room sealed" appliance which draws its combustion air from outside, and also exhausts to outside. We use one in our camper van and they are a bit heavy on gas consumption, but very effective. Can also be left on all night.

[Liberty]

Our calorifier will happily keep water hot for one day, warm for two.  It astonishes me every time.  And no, I don't have an issue with an overheating engine!  Just seems to be really well insulated.

[BroadScot]

46 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Iain, 

As a CORGI gas fitter (or was) I counsel you not to use the cooker in your boat as a space heater. Modern boats are built to CE regulations of fixed ventilation in living spaces but all the same, the risk is too great.

One cubic metre of Butane gas burned on a cooker will release two and a half litres of water into the atmosphere around it, and the rest consists of CO2. If the burner flame is burning with a white tip, then it is also releasing CO, which is poisonous.

A possible solution is to fit a Trumatic gas room heater, which also has a fan for blown warm air ducting. This is a "room sealed" appliance which draws its combustion air from outside, and also exhausts to outside. We use one in our camper van and they are a bit heavy on gas consumption, but very effective. Can also be left on all night.

Hi Vaughan,

I would have loved to have been an owner but the 400 plus miles each way got in our road to excuse a pun!

We only use the rings on the hire boat while boiling up the morning cuppa etc. and a 10 minutes more or so pending how cold it is!. All the present hire craft have a fixed open window very close to the cooker, and being a retired tradesman, I am very aware of safety aboard, unless you come into contact with fire extinguishers! Please read this at your leisure.

Until there is enough power posts across the Broads this now very old subject will not go away any time soon IMHO £1000 fines or not!

Iain.

[JawsOrca]

Whoops...

Well last weekend after poor Orca being left for 6 weeks with no hugs we got in at 9pm heating on full  the webasto heater control flashed error codes on the controller (Need more juice scotty) . Grrr. Over to the other battery and it started up but didn't like it.. So chief engineer switched on thumper (although don't forget Orca's exhaust system is 90% silencers.. We got three of them... ebay special! ), to help recharge and was left running for an hour .

Chief engineer said it was either that or no go next time.. I mentioned do we need solar panels then? He said "No we just need to use the boat more"... fair answer (Although I think we probably need to add another battery too.. certainly in the winter when the heater needs to be run!).. I now get why engines sometime need to be run more.. certainly in the winter. Interesting valid points.. Certainly sounds like there's lots of reliance on batteries and some batteries may not be maintained as well as they should. 

 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Jonzo said:

I can see why; more batteries = more batteries to replace

Not necessarily.......

If you fit another battery, this will save over-working the other ones, and so they will all last longer. (as long as your alternator is big enough to charge another battery).

A "starter" battery must be kept fully charged at all times - as it is in a car. But a domestic battery can accept a slow discharge (overnight) and then a re-charge. This is known as a "deep cycle". Your average lead-acid battery will accept around 400 to 500 cycles before it is finished. In a hire boat this may mean less than 2 seasons. Peachments sell batteries called Elecsol which will accept around 1200 cycles, and there are also the excellent Optima batteries, where the red ones are "starters" and the yellow are domestic (slow discharge). These are maintenance free and do not require to be installed in a ventilated battery compartment.

The boat builder must calculate the number of batteries needed to power all the equipment on the boat. If not, a small number of batteries will be overworked. At 12.7 volts a battery is charged. at 12 volts it is half charged and at 11.5 volts it is effectively flat. So if you have let your batteries get down to 10 volts, you are wrecking them. You may also be wrecking appliances in the boat, such as light fittings, due to volt-drop.

Another important principle is that a deep cycle battery must be recharged at once, or the plates will "sulfate" if you leave it half charged for several days (or weeks). In this respect it sounds to me as though you could do with solar panels, as these will keep the batteries topped up when you are not on board.

Modern electrics on a boat are complicated. It is all about "horses for courses".

[JennyMorgan]

Simple question really, it is a boating holiday so why do folk need all the comforts of home? 

[vanessan]

Well, I have had no further response from the BA following my attempt to get this clarified. I guess I have been tagged as an awkward ***** and my email consigned to the trash bin! I still believe the statement that 'running engines at moorings during day or night is a byelaw offence' is incorrect and misleading. If the words 'causing annoyance to others' had been included, I think we would all be much happier and in complete agreement.

[ExMemberBobdog]

No engine, no heating, no fridge, no TV or other electricals - the whole point is to escape from all that.  A couple of sails to move me along, a shower on shore (or a kettle boiled on a meths stove if that's not available), and a pub within walking distance. Bliss

[BroadScot]

18 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Simple question really, it is a boating holiday so why do folk need all the comforts of home? 

We cannot live in the past forever JM. As much as I appreciate your thoughts as a saily, and my early years hiring boats with a thunderbox loo and paid to hire a B&W tv, you have to move forward with the times, or would you prefer what boatyards are left, go to the wall?

Its the 21st century, and with it comes all the trappings of modern living, that folks, like me, pay a pretyy dear price to cruise on the Broads, if you hire one of the newer craft

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

Hi Iain, I admit to not knowing the answer but just my thoughts. I have long suspected that the industry made a mistake when it decided to compete with hotels rather than selling boating adventures on the Broads. People now come to the Broads expecting hotel quality accommodation that floats rather than a change of lifestyle holiday on a boat. It's not a 'saily' thing, it's a boating thing.

[Liberty]

Horses for course I think.  Some are happy to escape the normal comforts of life in the 21st century, whereas some want a different experience.  Personally, I like creature comforts such as heating and hot water, lighting and toys.

[JennyMorgan]

23 hours ago, Matt said:

I imagine there not many places in the UK where you can spend upwards of £2k on a weeks self catering holiday and not have hot water for a shower in the morning

Perhaps, Matt, folk should see it as a boating rather than a self catering holiday?

[johnb]

As a "never hired" perhaps these boats wouldn't cost so much if they didn't have all this stuff on board. I tend to think that the more one hire boat has the more the others have to supply to compete. Would people still hire if all hire boats went back to reasonable basics? I guess horses for courses is correct, but it could be that would be first time hirers are put off by the high end prices, without looking to see if there are cheaper alternatives.

[Vaughan]

The customers expect a lot these days - too much in my personal opinion.

In my time I have watched all the extras arrive : fridge, electric water pump, hot showers, and such like, which have been a bonus, but I think when you get to microwaves and dishwashers, that is going too far.

I think all boatyards would prefer not to fit all these things as they are expensive and are just something else to break down, but sometimes it is impossible to resist what the market seems to want. After all we have enormous competition from other forms of holiday, nowadays.

This is certainly not a new subject - it has been discussed ever since the war!

[TheQ]

Microwaves and dishwashers are peanuts in cost compared to the hull, having them on board will attract many more customers from those who do the cooking and washing up. You are competing for  people who go abroad on holiday and stay in hotels at a similar cost with out the need for catering themselves.

[JennyMorgan]

If I were hiring then I'd be off to Martham Boats, ideal boats for a boating holiday. No whirl pool baths there!

[JawsOrca]

11 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

If I were hiring then I'd be off to Martham Boats, ideal boats for a boating holiday. No whirl pool baths there!

Our last 2 years of hireing was with Marthams.. The best memories too! Amazing boats  Although the engine ran off oil and diesel in equal measurements lol 

[BroadScot]

24 minutes ago, Jonzo said:

Out of interest, how was that done? Did they have a Morco type gas boiler (or something else entirely)?

Yes, it was a small boiler with flue out the roof. Very effective too, a nice hot shower without engines running!

Iain