Webasto (help)

[Seriously]

[Seriously]

First time turning the beast on this year . No problems end of last season . Tried starting her up last night . It knocked out out all the lights . Started to blow cold air . The Websto clicked a few times lights went out again and lights did not come back on until I switched the Websto off. The engine was running and batteries should be good as we had run nearly five hrs during the day . Any quick remedies as could do with it on tonight ? 

[JawsOrca]

Flat domestics is my guess..   Or a wiring issue to the domestics.

[MBA Marine]

No quick remedies and she a old unit that is well and truly being phased out, Heater plug is your first port of call but something is trying to pull a heck of a lot of juice to be pulling lights down with engine running, I would have expected the breaker to trip.

[ranworthbreeze]

2 hours ago, Seriously said:

First time turning the beast on this year . No problems end of last season . Tried starting her up last night . It knocked out out all the lights . Started to blow cold air . The Websto clicked a few times lights went out again and lights did not come back on until I switched the Websto off. The engine was running and batteries should be good as we had run nearly five hrs during the day . Any quick remedies as could do with it on tonight ? 

Hello Seriously,

I would check the 30 amp supply to the heater, make sure all the connection are tight.

In your picture I would wrap that pipe in insulation unless it is the air intake, any heat coming from the pipe would not help the wiring and control of the heater.

It would appear to be a battery issue or a short on the wiring if the boats lights are going out.

Regards

Alan 

[Seriously]

Looks like getting wrapped in a duvet tonight hope our lass has not got cold feet again  

thanks for the help tho guys  

[ranworthbreeze]

6 minutes ago, Seriously said:

Looks like getting wrapped in a duvet tonight hope our lass has not got cold feet again  

thanks for the help tho guys  

Hi Seriously,

Don't tell me hot water bottles and fleece are not part of your boat kit?

At this time of the year or at the end of the season, we put four hot water bottles into the bed a couple of hours prior to going to bed and then refresh them if required with more hot water.

If you have a gas oven, put that on but allow for some ventilation. If you can screen off areas of the boat with curtains do so to cut down the area you need to heat.

The other year our heater was back at eberspacher at the end of the season so we made sure we were on shore power and used a couple of electric convectors to provide heat.

I hope you manage to keep warm.

Regards

Alan

 

[Oddfellow]

The flame sensor is designed to check that there is a flame and therefore heat so that it can cut power to the glow plug which is the biggest draw of power. As you are losing lights, it seems possible that the glow plug is being kept on, but other safety timers and sensors should kick it off anyway. 

I am very surprised that the trips didn't go or that you haven't lost insulation from overheating cables. That's a lot of power being taken by something to take the cabin lights out. My suggestion would be to not try turning it on again and have the unit and all of the wiring to it checked over. Speak to Tom at JPC Direct, he and his fellow wizards will be able to diagnose any fault with the unit. Check all cables to the unit; look for damage to the insulation (including those cable connectors above the trips). Make sure the trips move OK and are actually working.  

[Seriously]

 update

Well the lovely people at the boat yard came and had a look at my unit , as i could not scratch ,  any more hair of my head . Yes she is a old unit and are slowly being phased out as some one has said in previous reply . Well being a newbie the reset button on the unit need pressing in for a start  . Connection plug to the unit  was not in correctly this was possibly  drawing  the power.  The guys ran it for ten minutes we no issues  ran it another thirty minutes down the river no issues. These guys also told me i should  run the engine,  before firing up the heater system even tho my batteries were fully charged  . I know its the age old battle of running  engines . But that's  three people in the no, that  have said i should be running the engine before starting her up .

So Saturday evening we ran the engine , fired her up and we had heat . Not for long tho with a puff of white smoke from the exhaust on the outside  then the fans inside stop blowing. then it restart and it was fine for another 10 minute's. but did the same again puff of smoke and the internal fans stopped .  So rather than risk it for a biscuit she was turned off. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.  

I decide to move on to the light that was not working in the toilet after stripping it down i could not see anything obvious. I had a eureka moment Maybe this light was on a different fuse (Switch). Yep it was on the shower pump circuit the  light is now working.

So my thoughts turned back to the heating maybe if i turn on all the  switches, rather than what i had been doing . As in turning  as much power off as i could to allow it to be used on the heating system. so Sunday morning I ran the heating system for 40 minutes  with no issues and no smoke . So have i got a fault or not,   well   i will have to  wait and see

Until the next update

[Brundall1037]

We had starting issues a few years ago and one of our owners suggested making the cable run shorter and using thicker cables to avoid voltage drop, not had any issues since, always starts first time even with the engine off now.

[JawsOrca]

I do love the advice to run the engine before use!

Orca's works fine and she was used for a good 6 months before her engine ever ran (Although it was new).

Autonomy's (age unknown) has been running 2 to 3 times a day for the last 2 weeks and we've never ran the engines.

There's certainly a fault there if you need the engines running. I've read somewhere that there's something in the magic box which needs renewing (I'm really not sure). Can I suggest you contact Tom at JPC (http://www.jpcdirect.co.uk/) he's a sponsor of the forum and a UK dealer for these, he's very good and I bet he will tell you whats up in a matter of seconds. 

[BrundallNavy]

The heater on Nipper always fires up without running the engine, but we do keep the batteries topped up on shore power when not in use.

we ran the heater for around 4hrs on Saturday night along with lights and the TV and switched the heater on in the morning to warm the boat through before getting up and started no problem, all from one 110v battery.

Doug.

[Liberty]

+1 for Tom at JPC

[dnks34]

Sorry if this has been suggested already, I have read through but might have missed it,

How old are your batteries, is there any chance 1 or some may be duff.  Allsorts of seemingly complex problems can be caused by a dodgy cell.  

 

[Oddfellow]

We advise customers to run the engine for 10 minutes before starting the heater and then only turn it off when they feel warm air coming through. 

The heater has a large current draw at startup which drops as soon as a flame is detected and the glow plug stops taking power. Hirers rarely have the experience to know what the best method of operation of much of the equipment is, so giving the heater a fighting chance of starting by providing as much power as possible has to be the best way to go. If it fails to start a couple of times without the engine running, the batteries which must already be low will be lower and so the opportunity for the heater actually firing is reduced by the time they actually run the engine. 

 

[Hockham Admiral]

Andy, Hi.

I was always told to run the diesel heater at full power for a few minutes when starting or before shutting down. This was before we got the low-sulphur diesel; so does that still apply?    

[Vaughan]

Webastos are very reliable and sturdy, which is why hire boats have used them for so many years. The modern ones are effectively a sealed unit, and therefore pretty well maintenance free.

I think Freedom and others are right to look for the problem in the electric power supply.

Get two volt meters and when starting the unit with engine off, test the voltage at the batteries, compared to the voltage at the unit itself. If you have a drop of more than one volt between the two, there is your problem. A fully charged battery is at 12.7 volts and so the unit, in this case, is only getting 11.7, and this is probably too low for the electronics in the control box to turn it on.

If you run the engine, the alternator will give 13 volts, so the unit will then get 12 volts, which is enough to start it, so you get away with it.

But you still have a problem! A drop of one volt is too much and could also start a fire in the wiring. Volt drop is caused by high resistance, and resistance means heat. That's how the glowplug works in the first place! If you have volt drop, then increase the size of the wiring from the batteries to the unit and maybe, if possible, shorten the length of the cable run. You can also simply run a second cable, to parallel the two supplies.

You can also see this problem with electric fridges. If it is turning on and off every 10 seconds and not running steadily, then you have excessive volt drop.

By the way I am surprised if it was dimming the lights as they should be on a separate circuit. That would sound to me more like a dead short somewhere.

I suppose you have also looked to see if you have a Robin nesting in the exhaust pipe? Just a thought.

[Oddfellow]

On 19/04/2016 at 8:42 AM, Hockham Admiral said:

Andy, Hi.

I was always told to run the diesel heater at full power for a few minutes when starting or before shutting down. This was before we got the low-sulphur diesel; so does that still apply?    

It is virtually impossible to run a heater at full power unless you have a simple on/off switch or a complicated controller and some other equipment. Most controllers have a thermostat in them (or there's one wired somewhere). This will control (to a degree) the output of the heater and is used in conjunction with other fail-safe sensors. 

The current diesel that is in common use burns cleaner than it used to and therefore, sooting is greatly reduced. Heaters should still be serviced every few years though - burner screens will still clog up. 

What's more common than you might think is controller failure (the cabin temp/on/off switches). We have had two Eberspacher control units fail in the last six months. 

Another common fault is overheating caused by crap in the cold-air-input duct. Heater will run for about 10 minutes and then get too hot because the airflow over the cooling fins is too low; the heater then turns off. 

These things are complicated, but many faults are relatively easy to diagnose. Those that are more difficult involve faults with the fans and these may require a diagnostic rig.  

 

[Hockham Admiral]

Sorry, Andy, I should have said "Maximum Temperature"; that's what I meant.

[imtamping2]

On 18/04/2016 at 5:55 PM, brundallNavy said:

The heater on Nipper always fires up without running the engine, but we do keep the batteries topped up on shore power when not in use.

we ran the heater for around 4hrs on Saturday night along with lights and the TV and switched the heater on in the morning to warm the boat through before getting up and started no problem, all from one 110v battery.

Doug.

Wow just one 110v battery, do you tow this battery behind you