kfurbank

Peter, I would suggest you Google and look at the good and bad reviews and make up your own mind. However bear in mind that reputable companies operating in the UK are and should be regulated by The FCA. Other EU countries have similar financial regulatory bodies. Spain has The DGS. Companies that are not regulated by an appropriate financial body, have not been financially scrutinised and it would be a lottery whether they either would, or have the financial ability to pay a large claim. Such companies would never get any business if they never paid out any claims, so they tend to pay the smaller ones that suit them. A larger claim that involved serious injury, or perhaps loss of life might well prove very troublesome. I would avoid companies that are not regulated, I would avoid like the plague ones that The FCA or DGS have taken the time to add to a black list and warn about. Since you mention Edward William, take a look at their website and see if you can see any registered company numbers? any FCA, or DGS registration numbers? VAT number? They do provide a UK and Spanish phone number and a correspondence address in Spain. To expand this slightly Edward Williams are a broker who are not authorised to sell financial services in the UK. Northern Reef are their insurer who also appears on the DGS black list. I note that Northern Reef are now listed as being based in Uraguay!!!! That to one side, The BA requirement is that the third party insurance be for a sum of two million pound and be with a company regulated by the FCA, or similar body in an EU country.

Marshman, Do The BA allow you to self certify that you have a BSS? or do they insist on having a copy of the pass certificate sent to them for their records? Compulsory BSS and third party insurance are all covered in the same way under The Broads Act 2009. They were both implemented under the section Safety of Vessels etc. Why is one given more importance than the other? If it was found that an engineer was not BSS qualified, but had been issuing fake certificates anyway, and the BA had been alerted, would you not expect the BA to check BSS certificates a little more thoroughly?

Maurice I believe the fuse would be in the loom that plugs into the fridge. From the attached it does rather look like a limited number of things. If there is power reaching the fridge then it rather looks like a faulty thermostat which can be temporarily linked out to check, or the electronics unit which I believe is fairly well sealed.

Marshman, If they are not regulated by the FCA or the DGS then you're right the safe guards are not in place. I do understand your stance, however it is the insidious nature of The Broads Authority, exceeding their Authority and insisting that people (with no legal background) make a declaration about their insurance meeting the requirements of the act, when the same act does not allow for the with holding of a toll on the grounds of not having insurance or BSS. There are separate requirements of the act that the BA can enforce, but not by ransom, i.e. with holding the issuing of a toll. A BA river inspector has said that he would not make an on the spot decision about whether insurance was valid, but would note down the details and refer it back to Yare House. Why should general members of the public be expected to be any more of an expert and make a declaration with regards to meeting the requirements? It wouldn't be so bad if The BA were not aware that there is a company trading on their doorstep who are not authorised by the FCA or the DGS, in fact both government agencies carry warnings about using them. Whilst I understand that the BA do not regulate the insurance industry, I would have thought a little more care in checking the insurance policies in force would be in order, or highlighting more thoroughly just exactly what the declaration is that people are being asked to make. A simple "if you are insured with a non UK company, have you checked that your insurer is regulated by the EU equivalent of the FCA and have you checked their registration number, may be enough to make people think twice and question about using none regulated companies. The BA introduced the requirement for third party insurance as a safety issue. It's a nonsense if they are aware of and are failing to check for non compliance.

I guess time will tell. A cheque has gone in the post tonight to The Broads Authority with a covering letter, and without an insurance declaration. Whether or not they choose to cash the cheque is beyond my control, but my guess is any court would view a claim for non payment of tolls rather dimly, especially as two attempts have been made to make such payment. The BA could off course claim the defence of no insurance declaration being provided, but then they would also have to show which relevant byelaw, or Act of Parliament allows them to insist upon such a declaration and prove they are not exceeding their authority!!!

We will have to beg to differ, however I am not registering the vessel, or offering to pay the fee to do so. It is already registered. I am offering to pay the harbour fees / charges / toll, whichever you prefer. I believe you only register a vessel upon construction and first use on the navigation or transfer of owner? Tolls are demanded annually. If The BA wish to cancel the registration of the vessel it would need to be on the grounds that the vessel were not insured, not on the grounds that I refuse to be held to ransom to pay the toll. The BA are more than welcome to write to me and ask to see my insurance. They are more than welcome to stop me on the water and ask to see my insurance. They will not be getting a self declaration of insurance from me in any form prior to me paying the toll.

I believe in relation to the Police, it is called a honey trap!!! The BA are aware that people use companies on that list. They are insisting people make a self declaration even though there is nothing in the Acts that actually gives them the power to. The over reliance on self certification is one of the reasons they are very slack on physical spot checks on insurance. Very poor considering even if you have insurance at the time you renew your toll, it could expire very shortly afterwards. People tend to insure on the anniversary of the boat purchase, rather than the toll. If The BA asked you to hop on one foot before they would issue you with a toll, you would rightly tell them where to go. They don't have the power under The Broads Acts, similarly with self certification.

Popping the following link into Google Chrome with translate turned on makes interesting reading. http://www.dgsfp.mineco.es/sector/entidadesnoautorizadas.asp If someone was insured with one of those companies and made a declaration to The BA could be interesting. At least two members on here have communicated personally with The BA on this matter. They are aware make no mistake.

Strangely enough, if you shaved a little over 2ft 6in of the length, there is no requirement in the byelaws to have a whistle or other means of making an efficient sound signal!!!!

Maurice, Can I ask how long your vessel is?

Peter, The Act actually says, (1)On a request made by an authorised officer who produces, if requested, written evidence of his authority— (d)the owner or master of any vessel in the navigation area or on adjacent waters shall give the authorised officer such information or document as is available to him regarding any policy of insurance in force in relation to the vessel; The above is generally in response to a request for information as to vessels. The collection of tolls is not dependant in any way on you showing or self certifying your insurance. You know the interesting thing, if a BA officer stopped you and asked to see your insurance, they are not legal eagles, and also wouldn't know whether your insurance met the requirements of the Act. On this, or another forum a BA employee has said that in that case they would refer it back to Yare House. I'm not knocking them for this approach, but if they don't know, why should you self certify? The tolls office are just doing what they have been told to do. It doesn't mean it is correct/.

Unless your insured with a company based offshore that doesn't meet the following, "A policy required under section 14(2)or section 27(6)(a) shall be issued by an insurer authorised under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (c.8) to carry on in Great Britain or in Northern Ireland insurance business of a relevant class or who has corresponding permission under the law of another member state of the European Community." Indeed even worse if they appear on a list of companies that the Financial Conduct Authority specifically list as being not authorised in the UK, and also appear on a similar list in Spain on their equivalent of the UK's FCA. The BA are fully aware of this and are happy for you to self certify your way into trouble. I fully understand they have taken a path of least resistance and least cost to the toll payer, but it is one they are not authorised to take. They should increase spot checks on the river on insurance, and or ask who you are insured with. Even revise the tolls system so that you have to attach a scanned copy of your insurance and THEY check that it meets the requirements. In any case, collection of the tolls is not dependant on you having insurance, or a BSS. Powers to enforce these are covered in separate parts of the Broads Acts.

Peter, As I posted earlier in reply to Palandin, Paladin, Isn't the toll receipt the sticky toll plaque that they no longer issue? I'm not applying for a toll receipt just trying to pay a toll. Think byelaw 20 is somewhat out of date now!!! Taken from Interpretation, "Toll Receipt" means the document, disc, badge or mark issued to the owner of the vessel by the Authority to indicate that the appropriate toll has been paid for that vessel for the period covered by the toll receipt.

They wouldn't, and therein lies the issue. The BA should ask to see your insurance and check it meets their requirements, or ask who you are insured with and have a list of companies that they know meet the requirements. I know parallels are drawn, but it's actually very hard, in fact probably impossible to find car insurance from a UK based insurance company that doesn't meet the requirements of UK car insurance. I certainly wouldn't look for a Spanish company who are not regulated in the UK to insure my car.

Paul, The BA do not issue a license, they collect a toll which is a charge levied by The Authority under Section 26 of the Harbours Act 1964. Interestingly enough, that charge has to be "fair". Providing the construction of the vessel meets the requirements for the waterways they cannot restrict or refuse access to a particular vessel. These are public waterways and a right to navigate exists. They do have the power to collect Tolls / charges. I am not refusing to pay such tolls or charges. They do NOT have the power under any act to make the collection of those tolls dependant upon ANY conditions other than those specified by the relevant acts of parliament.

Marshman, we can all wish for lots of things, but lets keep it civil if we chose to take part in the discussion.!!!

Did someone say something, I've gone deaf

More than once I've managed to turn off the bilge pump or slightly raise the roof instead. It is actually more important when heading downstream at Wroxham due to the pilot mooring the other side and day boat returning and leaving with newbies on board. However that side gives you even less time to get yourself aligned.

Mike, Where in the Byelaws, or Broads Authority Acts which govern what powers the BA has does it say no insurance, no toll? Just because they are asking you to tick a box, sign a declaration on the paper version, or make a declaration over the phone, doesn't mean they have the power to. I'll make this simple as well. The acts give them the power to request a toll. It gives them separate powers to ask to see your insurance at any time. It gives them separate powers to see other documentation relating to your boat. It does not make any of that dependant on the issuing of a toll.

Sorry who's river? Who's rules? An act or two of parliament giving limited powers to an unelected quango., anyway please show me where in the byelaws, or acts of parliament it says they can refuse to issue you a toll? Oh and who said I wasn't insured?

The private contract between you and your marina is something you both have to agree on, or you can go elsewhere. Car road tax law is totally different to The Broads Acts. The BA are acting over and above the powers given to them by the government under The acts of 1988 and 2009. They are more than welcome at any time to stop me on the river and ask to see my insurance and it will be for them to determine whether it meets the requirements. They have NO right to refuse me a toll based on whether I am prepared to self certify my insurance meets their requirement.

Paladin, Isn't the toll receipt the sticky toll plaque that they no longer issue? I'm not applying for a toll receipt just trying to pay a toll. Think byelaw 20 is somewhat out of date now!!! Taken from Interpretation, "Toll Receipt" means the document, disc, badge or mark issued to the owner of the vessel by the Authority to indicate that the appropriate toll has been paid for that vessel for the period covered by the toll receipt.

No form on the tolls phoneline

Wroxham is more tricky since the addition of the footbridge as it's arch doesn't match the arch of the bridge. There are however chains that hang down from the footbridge roughly in the shape of the bridge arch. If you hit them, you are unlikely to pass the main bridge. The other thing to allow for, particularly in the busy times is boats mooring and departing the pilot mooring just before the bridge. Anyway the best way of passing the bridge is to line yourself up straight with the bridge as soon as possible and look for the key centre stone in the arch of the bridge. Put yourself at arms reach so you are in the centre of the boat and make sure you are straight in alignment with the key stone. If you are and you know you have the required clearance then you should pass easily. Remember to duck for the chains, especially when coming through from above the bridge. So many people pop their head up once clear of the main bridge and look back, only to be walloped on the back of the head by a chain from the foot bridge. Unfortunately coming back through the bridge is more difficult due to it being offset to the river and you cannot get lined up till the last minute. If at all possible time it so that you have the current against you as you will have better steerage and be able to back out of it easier if you have any doubts. I also find early morning, or early evening, tide permitting to be better. Less spectators around waiting for you to get it wrong.

Peter, The issue is that they are passing the buck for ensuring that insurance meets the requirements of the act to the owner. This is allowing the use of insurance companies that DO NOT meet the requirements of the Act. As you well know, they wanted the Act and spent toll payers money on gaining it. What they didn't gain was the right to with hold a toll on a whim, or made up byelaw. For reference the requirements for third party insurance and BSS are all covered in The Broads Authority Act 2009. Payment of tolls is all covered in the earlier Norfolk and Suffolk Broads Act 1988. None of that has been amended since the requirements to have insurance under the 2009 act. They CANNOT withhold a toll.