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D46
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Posts posted by D46
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Ok I'll now be holding my hands up as to bring a little incorrect , the river launch ML yare is not the 6 yr old vessel patrolling the River yare , ML yare is at thurn apparently .
A chance meeting with one of the yare rangers 10 mins ago cleared all of this up .
My apologies to the forum and indeed to BA for my mistake .
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55 minutes ago, BroadsAuthority said:
Hi D46,
All I can say is that the relevant and trained staff members responsible for annual checks deemed it necessary and cost effective that ML Yare have a refit rather than any repairs. I can't really provide much more information than that.
Happy Christmas!
Tom
Thanks for that Tom .
On looking at the launch replacement program it transpires the the vessel came on line in 2013 hence 6 yrs old , now I can't see why it would need a replacement engine in that length of time given it does exactly what other boats do speed wise etc and it being a kabota a very much considered robust power plant .
There must be countless folk who use their boats often now somewhat worryed regarding needing an engine swap .
I fully understand though Vaughan's comment about rebuild costs of kabotas as genuine spares are extremely expensive against other makes .
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33 minutes ago, batrabill said:
Mods - can we delete this thread! There seems to be a lot of "good news" in it.
Thankfully some have spotted what's wrong with it and pointed it out.
I hope that after the season of goodwill the Forum will return to its god-given function of pointing out how every little thing the Authority does is wrong.
Oh dear please accept my apologies for asking a question .
Yes the reason may well be for preventive maintainace but I still think this launch hasn't done that many hrs , for one it's definitely not out every day nor has it been for a number of yrs and I'm fairly sure it was commissioned in around 2012 possibly a little later making it 6-7 yrs old .
Yes there is some good news in the briefing but some of it poses questions one of which I've asked , I would have expected the season of good will to extend to forum members , maybe that manifests it's self in sarcasm these days .
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Under vessel refits it's interesting to note the number of replacement engine's , now the subject of SOB has been done to death , but the launch yare is a lot less than 10 yrs old and has hardly had a difficult life or done a huge amount of hrs either.
As far as I can remember the engine is a beta but it's certainly kabota engine of around 35 hp , the boat being built at brooms also included the ability to use electric drive which the rangers freely admitted didn't really work out well .
The point is this engine should be relatively low hrs and in good health given its age , there are many hire craft with similar engine's that have done surely lots more hrs and not up for replacement .
The vessel itself is in fine condition it's just a shame it's engine isn't !
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32 minutes ago, Regulo said:
The advantage of being the holder of the keys! I'm the only one with the power to start the engine!!
I wasn't thinking of any one in particular it was general comment , but hey hands up anyone who's never forgotten anything I know I have .
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7 minutes ago, Regulo said:
I've done this with 3 different TVs and not suffered any problems. But I don't watch telly while the engine's running!
Very likely it will be fine with the engine off as the batteries will settle to a voltage no too far of the limit of the electronics within the tv , fine till human nature kicks in as I can imagine someone fireing up the engine for a shower etc with the tv still on.
The situation gets even worse with battery management systems as they charge when the engine is running at a higher voltage than normal alternator output , especially on the lead acid setting .
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43 minutes ago, oldgregg said:
I'm surprised you didn't find more in my post to misquote or misinterpret, so I guess I got off fairly lightly this time.
And yes, of course you need a voltage stabiliser.
Really I don't think I've mis quoted or mis interrupted you at all , please explain where that has occurred .
Because I didn't full agree with you doesn't mean I've done either of the thing you have accused me off.
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38 minutes ago, oldgregg said:
I'm not a fan of inverters on boats.
Phones can be charged from a 12V USB cigar socket adapter, as can laptops. And there are TV's on the market which are 12V but supplied with a 240V power supply. Cut the power supply off the lead and you've got a 12V TV.
Microwaves are all well and good but they're a good way of trashing your batteries. I have also heard of people running electric heaters from an inverter, because the diesel heating is too noisy. I'm not even joking.
And yeah - As I've said many a time, you have to put back in what you take out. A couple of meaty alternators is a good idea on a hire cruiser, hence why some fleets do just that.
Seriously cut the lead of a tv and ignore the 230 power supply at your peril , it's not designed to take the voltage kicked out when the alternator is running , the only way to do it is through a voltage stabiliser and when you have bought that you might just as well have bought a small inverter and onless it out of warranty kept that intact .
Of cause inverter's have a place on boats otherwise they wouldn't be a popular upgrade .
Regarding running 2 big alternators don't forget that will slow the engine down , it's far better to have a proper battery management system or alternator controller which does also slow the engine , but it does charge faster and to a higher capacity , in most cases fitting one is equivalent to adding an extra battery but with benifits such as extended battery life .
It's not just broads boats that need good battery management it's all boats where ever they are be they private or hire .
Incidentally who's ever seen a battery management system on a hire boat I certainly haven't .
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1 hour ago, psychicsurveyor said:
probably because in the long run it is easier, cheaper and less polluting than running 200 engines for a few hours on handover day .
Yes see that point but I really think is doing half a job , where as to include a few mains sockets make the boat more attractive to some as not all things come in a 12v format nor do people want to replicate items they already have .
Now given how many hire boats you see plugged in these days it's pretty obvious creature comforts are high on quite a lot of hirers list.
Me I prefer the choice which makes finding a mooring much less stressful and the boat can operate just as it does on mains power mimicked via the inverter .
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On 15/12/2019 at 08:10, rightsaidfred said:
Based purely on observation as I don't have actual figures and ignoring inverters as being misleading I think both arguments are probably somewhere near right, looking at most hire boats when in their base yard I would say at least 2/3rds have mains battery charging facilities the 67% figure quoted while I would also say looking at the boat specifications a much smaller number have true 240v domestic setups from shore power.
Fred
Sorry but I fail to understand why a yard would equip a boat with shore power just for a battery charger , after all it needs exactly the same fitment to pass a BSC , and all it needs is a bit of cable and a few sockets , clearly that makes the boat more attractive to those that want mains power and a inflated hire cost no doubt .
That said I've done no research on the matter as there are far more important issues but I have a certain amount of knowledge to fall back on .
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21 minutes ago, oldgregg said:
Okay, let's ask the question a different way.
How was it determined that 67% of hire boats have shore power facilities? Has the question in fact been phrased along the lines of "how many boats have 240v power" because I think you'd find that if you include those with inverters then you wouldn't be far off the 67%.
Not the same thing, but it depends what question was actually asked of yards and how they responded.
Statistics are only as good as the integrity and quality of the data on which they are based. It is very easy to get misleading results from surveys by asking the questions in the wrong way.
The devil is in the detail.
I think you'll find the original post mentioned 67% have shore power , it didn't mention inverter's , probably because they aren't shore power .
Fine challenging someone's figures but do some research and come up with something concrete to support that , ie ask a yard , if one person can do it so can others .
I don't challenge others figures until I know myself as that's the fair way to do it .
Inverter's have no part to play it the figures you can use one while mudweighted no where near and electric post .
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2 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:
You can phone up Yare house and purchase them over the phone with your card and they will send them to you
Yes at cost to BA , I wonder who they pass that cost on to? , I'm fairly sure that the person requesting the cards doesn't pay it although I might be wrong .
If out on the river it's perfectly possible to pick them up at no cost , I know of few people that have problems .
Obviously shortages happen but it's pretty rare , clearly it's best to be prepared and have a stock to fall back on .
The reliance on electric posts isn't the answer , it's not long ago since the entire system was upgraded and the weren't available for a lengthy period of time , and it's the same in winter when higher than normal tides take the posts out .
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1 hour ago, Tempest said:
Really having an electrical nightmare this week.
Arrived at Brooms on Saturday and thought I would pop to the office to buy some cards for the week and the office was shut.
Not to worry though as we intended to go to the New Inn at Rockland St Mary and they stock them...
Errrrrr... nope!
Response was that they had sold out, as someone came in and bought the last of their stock..
But, not to matter as the post office is only a 15 minutes walk and they stock them....
Wrong again....sold out and a re-order had not arrived yet!
Never mind, I am sure there are spares in the skippers manual on board.
Get to the envelope which states 9 electric card's (please replace), but the 9 had been crossed out and it was written over with 3 electric card's.
I opened the envelope and there was one (1) card..
I had to use it, but I will replace it...I promise!
Next day we made our way down the Chet to Loddon Staithe and the first job was to visit Bridge Stores and stock up on electric card's....
Wrong again....sold out!
They have ordered more, but they haven't arrived yet, and a guy came in and bought all their stock!
(There is a theme here!)
But not to be deterred as Bridge Stores staff said we should try Rosie Lee's Tea Shop, next door
"Excuse me, do you have any of the BA Electric Card's please?"
"Yes, I have 2 left" was the reply!
She then went on to say that she also was waiting for an order as a gentleman came in and asked if he could buy her stock of cards, but she refused to sell them all, keeping 2 back for another customer
Thankfully I was that customer
She did say, that the BA were really slow at re-stocking and she didn't understand why, but she would ring them again to chase up
Personally I think the electric posts should be able to accept contactless payments from debit cards or Apple or Google pay direct from your phone as the card system appears to be flawed if my experience is anything to go by
We are now at the Ferry House and a table is booked for the evening and we are hooked up to their own electric posts, which thankfully the Ferry House provides the cards for!
It's a bit windy and wet today, but we have not got far to walk...
Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
Don't forget that the river rangers also Carry a supply of cards .
Both the new inn and brooms have run out in the past in my experience but generally it's fine .
The BA on their web site Carry's a full list of outlets that do cards as far as I'm aware .
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This could be of use when fitting accumulator and expansion tanks especially regarding pressure and sizing etc .
Accumulator and Expansion Tank Instructions ZPWL4 doc595.pdf
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5 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:
Looks like mine shown here which will be under furniture eventually. I can check pressure when I am back there tomorrow if it helps. The pump is hidden under the Red pipe.
Surely that's an tank operating as an accumulator tank not an expansion tank as it' Tee's off the cold from the water pump ?
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I really don't see the need for the expansion vessel really , after all the tank has a pressure realise valve , that in it's self is of a lower value thant the tanks are tested to .
An accumulator tank however on the cold side really does smooth out the flow and stop's the water pump cycling , pressure should be 2-3 psi less than the pump pressure which different from pump to pump .
1 bar by the way is 14.5 psi .
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47 minutes ago, marshman said:
I might be mistaken but I believe the posts on the Lower Bure have been numbered as long as I can remember and thats a long long time. I also believe that there are other reasons why there is a "hump" in the Bure - and thats nothing new either but not entering into that discussion!!! The saltwater surges are still getting further upstream every year, despite arguments over the "hump" and everytime you get a big one, one, more fish die! The Broads are generally full of freshwater fish so they dislike saltwater for too long and surges will kill them. Not sure too many fisherman, or indeed many others either, want to see thousands of dead fish rotting in the rivers!!
The recent floods on the Don were sad but dredging per se is rarely the answer - frequently it just moves the problem elsewhere!
But going back to the bridge - its not the air draft especially that stops transit but almost all Broads cruisers these day are built to the maximum allowable beam and because the arch width is narrower than at Wroxham, it is the beam that causes the main obstacle. So try and pick a 10' beam rather than the more standard 12' - that will help but they are few and far between.
Or hire a day boat as suggested
Very sound thinking .
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1 hour ago, Smoggy said:
Ah the home made bubble tester diagram! Anyone here fancy a homemade bubble tester on their gas system in their boat with sealed hull and a heavier than air fuel? Would go really well with a gas fridge..........
Mmm like no definitely not I wouldn't trust it it's a gas system after all .
Thing is it's not rocket science to do gas pipe work on r read the BSS guidelines regarding that installation , BUT for heaven's sake get it checked before using it , sure you can use a bubble tester but a manometer will show up just the same , the good thing about the bubble tester is it's there in place to check in those 4 yrs between the BSC man putting his manometer on the system .
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Copper tanks have always been a good choice on boats for many years , that said I can't see any reason not to chose a S/S one , the thermostic link is a different issue , do you really need it ? If you have mixer taps then probably not as there's no need to reduce the hot supply at the colirifier when it can easily be done at the taps .
Gas pipe wise if you have Tee's that are capped off with proper fittings it will no doubt pass s BSS , but it would be far better to replace the entire line working to the BSS guidelines if that indeed is a task that can be reasonably easily accomplished .
If doing the work yourself then before using it it's very prudent to get a gas safe engineer to pup a manometer on the system to test for pressure drop ie leaks .
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2 hours ago, Cockatoo said:
How high will it get?
Sent from the Norfolk Broads Network mobile app
The answer is a fair bit higher than that , the whole of both carparks flood on occasions .
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Spot on silent block bobbins will cure a resonance issue n pretty easy to fit too , that said they have already got isolation rubbers fitted so it shouldn't resonate .
Incidentally the Johnson pump is a 5 diaphragm pump hence the large chamber and should ideally be run in conjunction with an accumulator tank of the correct size and pressurised 2-3 psi less than the pump pressure .
Any water pump must never be mounted with the motor facing down in a vertical format as any internal leak will get back into the motor and bearings , sideways is fine as is any oriantation on a flat surface .
A simple ball valve introduce on the inlet side will combat the issue being able to isolate the water supply and very useful to be able to turn it off when leaving the boat for extending periods as it removes the possibility water running if a pressure realise valve , tap washer or pipe fails aft of the pump , if it's taken care of with a pump turn of switch fitted to the boat already that also removes that risk .
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4 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:
The builders built a boat, presumably fitting it out to meet the requirements of the original purchaser/contractor. Anyway, end result was that the order was cancelled, for whatever reason, thus the yard was looking for a buyer which, as we all know, came along in the form of the Broads Authority. I do know for a fact that the Authority responsibly and rightly sought professional, qualified opinion as well as seeking the advice of the Navigation Committee, theoretically that is all that they could reasonably be expected to do. The Authority had asked all the questions and set the criteria for the choice of boat, but were they sound and qualified, that surely is the crux of the matter? I very much doubt that the original engine choice could in anyway the responsibility of the Authority. That said the Authority has to accept full responsibility for deciding on the perceived and potential role of SOB, and for the questions that it asked as well as the final decision to buy. Beyond that I do wonder what responsibility the yard has, if any, for the engine that it originally supplied?
TBH I can't see how it can be vessels builders at fault , sir BA did all they could as in seeking the advice of the nav committee and employing a qualified person but unless the builders mislead BA in some way it's nothing to do with them .
I'm not in anyway blaming BA , they did all that could be expected of them but something went badly wrong as for her actual time of patrolling hrs SOB has to be the very least and most expensive ( in maintaining and down time ) of any launch in memory and I'd still now it's being re engined again a drain on the navigation budget .
Hopefully this new engine will be more suited to it's role , but I do believe that BA got very much carried away with the SOB hype when she was first introduced , if I remember correctly they did mention that she was coastal as well as inland .
I've still misgivings about her being placed for sale as part of the launch replacement program as she was only in service 6 yrs , that sounds a small amount of time considering the age of the other launch's .
Incidentally I have no connection at all with Goodchilds but I don't like to see reputations potentially damaged by what has clearly nothing to do with them on less as stated they mislead BA and it's qualified person .
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To be honest I really don't think this has an awful lot to do with Goodchilds as the builders of the vessel , surely it was built to a specification deamed sutable buy the people who originally ordered it , then for an unknown reason didn't complete the purchase .
Then BA step in and bought it knowing of it's specification etc , it should and would have been completed obvious to anyone who knows about big engine's running at slow speeds that the boat wasn't that sutable to the role BA expected of it .
How can that be any fault of the builders of the vessel ?
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Calorifiers - Connection To Engine
in Technical Questions and Answers
Posted
Nice rover ( ex Buick) V8 , well designed headers too ( all the same length) 😀.
Calorifier wise a mixer on the tank will give you more hot water and is useful as far as not delivering red hot water to hot outlets , me I removed mine as it supply's hot to taps that are mixer taps anyway so I can reduce it there but that's personal choice .
As for horizontal or vertical colorifiers it depends on the installation really but it's worth bearing in mind vertical ones from ASAP the fittings ie hose connections and PRV Valve + mixer valve are all extra , hot pot or sure just are exactly the same item really .
Connection wise it's normally from a tapped connection from the back of the cylinder head ( I'll be amazed if there isn't one ) return is to immediately before the engine's water pump inlet as John discribed , that bit might need a suitable tee joint making up .